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OT more on the swiftboat liar Thurlow
Thurlow, the lead man for the Swiftboat Veterans against Kerry, lied.
Period. War record counters Kerry critic's version Doubt is cast on author who says Dem not under fire Michael Dobbs, Washington Post Thursday, August 19, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Washington -- Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events. In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that his boat came under fire during a mission on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day. But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released Wednesday to the Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him." As one of five swift boat skippers who led the raid up the Bay Hap River, Thurlow was a direct participant in the disputed events. He is also a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans that has aired a controversial television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record. In interviews and written reminiscences, Kerry has described how his 50- foot patrol boat came under fire from the banks of the Bay Hap after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. patrol boat. According to Kerry and members of his crew, the firing continued as an injured Kerry leaned over the bow of his ship to rescue a Special Forces officer who was blown overboard in a second explosion. Last month, Thurlow swore in an affidavit that Kerry was "not under fire" when he fished Lt. James Rassmann out of the water. He described Kerry's Bronze Star citation, which says that all units involved came under "small arms and automatic weapons fire," as "totally fabricated." "I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was released by Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. |
JohnH wrote:
On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. -- Save America - Defeat Bush! |
In article ,
says... On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. Pay attention here teach. Thurlow's own citation for the bronze star includes the information that there was small arms fire coming from the banks of the river. It agrees with Kerry's and Rassmann's account of the events of that day and is in direct conflict with Thurlow's very recent affidavit saying that there was no small arms fire, three decades later. When will you admit to yourself these guys are nothing but partisans who would rip the most patriotic of men apart in an effort to get their man elected. The point person is non other than Merrie Spaeth, the same gal who commandeered the character assassination of John McCain in 2000 with the aide of Karl Rove. These are scummy people. jps |
jps wrote:
In article , says... On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. Pay attention here teach. Thurlow's own citation for the bronze star includes the information that there was small arms fire coming from the banks of the river. It agrees with Kerry's and Rassmann's account of the events of that day and is in direct conflict with Thurlow's very recent affidavit saying that there was no small arms fire, three decades later. When will you admit to yourself these guys are nothing but partisans who would rip the most patriotic of men apart in an effort to get their man elected. The point person is non other than Merrie Spaeth, the same gal who commandeered the character assassination of John McCain in 2000 with the aide of Karl Rove. These are scummy people. jps I heard a phone interview with Thurlow earlier today...he can't even keep his stories straight when he relates them "first hand" hinmself. Oh...and he claimed he had "no contact" with the GOP guttersnipes producing the ****boat ads. Right...he had no idea they were videotaping him for the ad. Guy lives in Dumbfoch, Kansas. Upper part of the state, about 100 miles or so from the Colorado border. Maybe he grow winter wheat. If he knows how. -- Save America - Defeat Bush! |
Harry Krause wrote in message ...
JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. Hey, John, have you considered that the records are public, and NO, Kerry didn't write the citation? |
basskisser wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message ... JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. Hey, John, have you considered that the records are public, and NO, Kerry didn't write the citation? John is back to his coloring book and Crayolas. -- Save America - Defeat Bush! |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... basskisser wrote: Harry Krause wrote in message ... JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. Hey, John, have you considered that the records are public, and NO, Kerry didn't write the citation? John is back to his coloring book and Crayolas. -- Krause and Basskisser. Two peas in a pod. They deserve each other. |
Kerry may have just been confused by the stress of combat. He was confused
one Christmas when he was sent into Cambodia, by a President not in office. I guess he is just suffering from Post Traumatic stuff. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. -- Save America - Defeat Bush! |
"jim--" wrote in message ...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... basskisser wrote: Harry Krause wrote in message ... JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. Hey, John, have you considered that the records are public, and NO, Kerry didn't write the citation? John is back to his coloring book and Crayolas. -- Krause and Basskisser. Two peas in a pod. They deserve each other. Jim-- and John H, two members of a circle jerk. |
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
Kerry may have just been confused by the stress of combat. He was confused one Christmas when he was sent into Cambodia, by a President not in office. I guess he is just suffering from Post Traumatic stuff. Uh, Kerry didn't write the report for Thurlow, you senile old goat. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JohnH wrote: On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Ahhh...our mustered out mustang comes out of his coma to once again prove that military intelligence is an oxymoron. -- Save America - Defeat Bush! |
In article ,
says... On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:33:17 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On 19 Aug 2004 08:28:59 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. Have you considered that the author of the citation, probably Kerry, lied? Very seldom does one write his own citation. Pay attention here teach. Thurlow's own citation for the bronze star includes the information that there was small arms fire coming from the banks of the river. It agrees with Kerry's and Rassmann's account of the events of that day and is in direct conflict with Thurlow's very recent affidavit saying that there was no small arms fire, three decades later. When will you admit to yourself these guys are nothing but partisans who would rip the most patriotic of men apart in an effort to get their man elected. The point person is non other than Merrie Spaeth, the same gal who commandeered the character assassination of John McCain in 2000 with the aide of Karl Rove. These are scummy people. jps Pay attention. Thurlow's own citation was *not* written by Thurlow, and was received by Thurlow *after* he left the service. Thurlow states his citation was erroneous. Did I say that Thurlow wrote the citation? It was written by a third party. Why in God's name would Rassmann, a Republican, lie about being under fire while Kerry was rescuing him? I suppose his vantage point wasn't nearly as good as Thurlows? Geez John, seems like the logic would be apparent to you if you were wearing tightly bound blinders. jps |
In article , jps wrote: Did I say that Thurlow wrote the citation? It was written by a third party. How about before you accept that report as honest you first identify who wrote it, and whether they were personally present. If not, then identify all the persons who submitted written and oral interviews, and get copies of same, so you have the same source material that person had, before you come to judgement. (BTW, the only person to submit an "after action" report on that incident was Kerry. None of the other officers did, because none of them reported ENEMY FIRE, which was the criteria for such a report!) Why in God's name would Rassmann, a Republican, lie about being under fire while Kerry was rescuing him? He could be wrong and honestly believe what he's saying. That shots were being fired doesn't indicate who was doing the shooting. It is acknowledged that suppressive fire was directed FROM THE BOATS once the mine went off to guard against the possibility of fire coming from the shore, BUT NO SUCH FIRE WAS EVER TAKEN BY THE BOATS. I suppose his vantage point wasn't nearly as good as Thurlows? Certainly not. Being in the water and shielded by the boats (so you don't get shot to hell) is certainly less advantageous in terms of seeing what's going on than from a gunner's turret on top of one of those boats. Geez John, seems like the logic would be apparent to you if you were wearing tightly bound blinders. jps Note that the captains of the boats both BEHIND and IN FRONT OF Kerry's (prior to him cutting and running when the mine went off) have reported NO enemy fire incoming. There also seem to be a curious lack of damage and maintenance reports on the boats involved. If there was fire coming from the shore, where were the holes in the superstructure of the boats? Phantasmal bullets.... that disappear when not aimed at Rasmussen. That's a good one. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
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In article , jps wrote: In article . net, says... Why in God's name would Rassmann, a Republican, lie about being under fire while Kerry was rescuing him? He could be wrong and honestly believe what he's saying. There were three bullet holes in THURLOW's boat from the exchange. Of course, now Thurlow is saying they were from a previous encounter. Only three? Gee, that's pretty ****ty marksmanship for an "intense firefight." From emplaced positions? Three holes? Uh huh. Ok. This level of damage happens to be consistent with a single sniper in a previous encounter, but isn't consistent with an "intense firefight" with shooting coming from BOTH sides of the river. I don't believe the VC were that poor of a shot. If they were, we would have overrun the VC positions in an hour or two and we wouldn't have had such a tough time over there. Clearly, they could (and did) shoot straight when they shot at all. I'd love to find out who wrote the commendations, as you suggest, but without that knowledge you have to rely on the contemporaneous records that were accepted as faithful by the Navy. jps There is only one - Kerry's own AA report. The others WHO WERE THERE say that they did not file reports because there was no incoming fire taken. Where's the media on this? Why not FOIA the radio logs from the land operators? You might not be able to get all of them (who knows how carefully they were preserved) but I bet that if there was some major firefight that there is a record of the radio calls to the battlefield HQ stating that they were taking fire, along with whatever backup and/or support they requested (and what, if any, was provided.) Or has that been done and there simply aren't any records, because the radio calls didn't take place - because there was no enemy fire..... -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
Subject: OT more on the swiftboat liar Thurlow
From: JohnH Pay attention. Thurlow's own citation was *not* written by Thurlow, and was received by Thurlow *after* he left the service. Thurlow states his citation was erroneous. So did he give back his bronze star? Capt. Bill |
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In article , jps wrote: In article . net, says... In article , jps wrote: In article . net, says... Why in God's name would Rassmann, a Republican, lie about being under fire while Kerry was rescuing him? He could be wrong and honestly believe what he's saying. There were three bullet holes in THURLOW's boat from the exchange. Of course, now Thurlow is saying they were from a previous encounter. Only three? Gee, that's pretty ****ty marksmanship for an "intense firefight." From emplaced positions? Three holes? Uh huh. Ok. This level of damage happens to be consistent with a single sniper in a previous encounter, but isn't consistent with an "intense firefight" with shooting coming from BOTH sides of the river. I don't believe the VC were that poor of a shot. If they were, we would have overrun the VC positions in an hour or two and we wouldn't have had such a tough time over there. Clearly, they could (and did) shoot straight when they shot at all. I'd love to find out who wrote the commendations, as you suggest, but without that knowledge you have to rely on the contemporaneous records that were accepted as faithful by the Navy. jps There is only one - Kerry's own AA report. The others WHO WERE THERE say that they did not file reports because there was no incoming fire taken. Where's the media on this? Why not FOIA the radio logs from the land operators? You might not be able to get all of them (who knows how carefully they were preserved) but I bet that if there was some major firefight that there is a record of the radio calls to the battlefield HQ stating that they were taking fire, along with whatever backup and/or support they requested (and what, if any, was provided.) Or has that been done and there simply aren't any records, because the radio calls didn't take place - because there was no enemy fire..... It's obvious which way you'd prefer to lean Karl, however, based on the lack of evidence other than what's been written in the record and a bunch of partisan creeps who've changed their story based on the wind, I'll take the originals written 30+ years ago. No one has established that Kerry wrote the report. jps Nobody else has written a report; all the other officers said they haven't. Who's left? Who do I believe? 1 guy (Rasmussen) or 250 guys (the other swifties)? Do you really think ALL 250 OF THEM are lying? -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://boaterforum.com Talk about Boating online - any topic, any time! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! |
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