On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:52:08 GMT, Mole wrote:

EMF kickback? I guess you mean the voltage drop. Never heard of EMF
kickback. And, yes, a voltage drop to sensitive equipment can damage it.
That's why using an accessory/house battery for the equipment is the best
route to go.

Bill's right, it's a spike produced by the collapsing magnetic field of the
solenoid. It can do some damage. As he says, put an oscilloscope across
the line and you'll see it.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

Jim,
The intellitec site ( http://www.intellitecsve.com/batteryprod.htm if
this is the correct one) talks about automotive products, are they safe
enough for a boat?
Paul

".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
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".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

".JIMinMA." wrote in message
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"Calif Bill" wrote in message
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If starting, the voltage will be below 13.4V and the batteries
will
not
be
combined. I installed one on my boat as the electronics power
cycled
when
starting the motor (351W inboard). They happily stay on now.
The
only
isolators I have seen have been the diode units. The combiner
is
a
relay.
Bill
Your right. I didn't think of that. Battery voltage typically goes
to
about
10 V when the engine is cranking so the West Combiner/Isolator
would
be
in
Isolation mode. How do you handle an emergency start situation
when
the
starting battery is dead?
Jim



I have a Guest dual battery switch. The combiner is hooked up to
the
1
and
2 battery connections and then off the #2 connection is a wire to a
single
battery switch. The electronics runs off the single switch. So to
run
the
boat I have to turn the dual switch to #1 and also turn on the
single
switch. If #1 is dead, just turn the dual switch to #2. I lost a
Pinpoint
sonar unit when starting one time. The EMF kickback from the
starter
/
solenoid blew a cap and the power supply in the unit.
Bill


Where does the combiner read the control voltage from?
Jim




It reads the voltage from either battery. IF one gets above 13.4V then
the
relay engages and combines the 2 batts.
Bill


That's what I wasn't sure of. It had to look at both batteries or another
source like the ignition switch or alternator output. One minor nit to
pick.
The on/off/both switch you are using doesn't seem to enable you to pull
battery 2 out of the circuit and operate the electronics on battery 1
only.
Of course you could disconnect a battery cable if you had to. You have a
pretty good setup there. Take a look at the intellitec web site if you get
a
chance. They have some pretty interesting battery control devices.

Gobble gobble,
Jim

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
.JIMinMA. wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...

".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

".JIMinMA." wrote in message

...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
If starting, the voltage will be below 13.4V and the batteries
will
not
be
combined. I installed one on my boat as the electronics power
cycled
when
starting the motor (351W inboard). They happily stay on now.
The
only
isolators I have seen have been the diode units. The combiner
is
a
relay.
Bill
Your right. I didn't think of that. Battery voltage typically
goes
to
about
10 V when the engine is cranking so the West Combiner/Isolator
would
be
in
Isolation mode. How do you handle an emergency start situation
when
the
starting battery is dead?
Jim



I have a Guest dual battery switch. The combiner is hooked up to
the
1
and
2 battery connections and then off the #2 connection is a wire to a
single
battery switch. The electronics runs off the single switch. So to
run
the
boat I have to turn the dual switch to #1 and also turn on the
single
switch. If #1 is dead, just turn the dual switch to #2. I lost a
Pinpoint
sonar unit when starting one time. The EMF kickback from the
starter
/
solenoid blew a cap and the power supply in the unit.
Bill


Where does the combiner read the control voltage from?
Jim




It reads the voltage from either battery. IF one gets above 13.4V then
the
relay engages and combines the 2 batts.
Bill


That's what I wasn't sure of. It had to look at both batteries or
another
source like the ignition switch or alternator output. One minor nit to
pick.
The on/off/both switch you are using doesn't seem to enable you to pull
battery 2 out of the circuit and operate the electronics on battery 1
only.
Of course you could disconnect a battery cable if you had to. You have a
pretty good setup there. Take a look at the intellitec web site if you
get a
chance. They have some pretty interesting battery control devices.

Gobble gobble,
Jim




I want to do a little rewiring on Yo Ho next spring, but I haven't
really thought through what I should do.

As equipped by Parker, the boat came with two Group 27 wet deep cycles,
connected to a battery switch. If I put the switch on both, the Yamaha's
alternator charges both batteries.

The boat has a 12V refrigerator which to date I have not used. It runs
off the batteries, naturally. If I turn the refrig on and follow my
usual pattern of drift fishing or fishing at anchor, it will naturally
draw down stored battery juice. I could switch off one of the batteries
while the engine is not running, and let the refrigerator run off of the
battery that is still connected...but this cuts my start-up the engine
margin of safety. Typically, while drift fishing or fishing at anchor, I
shut down all the electronics. I keep my portable VHF on, though, but it
has its own battery.

What I am thinking of doing is installing a third battery, just for the
refrigerator and/or the electronics I might use while at anchor. That
part is fairly simple. The problem is, I'm not sure how I want to keep
that particular battery charged. I'd like the engine to juice it back
up, but I don't want to tie it into the regular circuit...and I don't
want to mess with a bunch of battery switches that I'll forget to turn
on/off or whatever.

So I've been toying with mounting a solar panel on the cabin roof, one
that is hooked only to the accessory battery. But that, of course, will
not be enough to rejuvenate the accessory battery if the refrigerator is
running.

An alternative is a small nuclear-powered reactor, but...with Saddam on
the lam, my usual eBay source of fissionable materials is gone...


Hook up a battery combiner. West Marine carries 2 different models. A 50
amp and a 150 amp. The 50 amp should be fine. When it senses a battery
charge rate of 13.4V it connects the batteries together.
Bill

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Jim,
The intellitec site ( http://www.intellitecsve.com/batteryprod.htm if
this is the correct one) talks about automotive products, are they safe
enough for a boat?
Paul
The sealed components are safe enough. If there is any question about
sparks, mount the components out of the bilge and engine room areas.
Jim

A good site for information is www.yandina.com (afaik the manufacturer of
West Marine combiners). Quite detailed information on how combiner works as
well as about lots of other electrical stuff.

Chuck H.

".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
m...
".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...
Use two 5 watt solar panels and a continuous duty isolator relay. It
can't
get any simpler than that.
Jim

Okay sounds good. The isolator would connect to what other than the
two batteries? And it's purpose would be to keep anything on the boat
from pulling from the aux right? Also, would 5watts overcharge the
batteries and require a controller?

Yes, the batteries would have no load while sitting, but I'm recalling
those two week trips and my car not starting when I got back.

Thanks!
The relay would be turned on by the ignition switch. You could add an
isolator relay delay and make the installation a little more
sophisticated.
Don't worry about overcharging. Look at the Intellitec web site for
details
on the products I mentioned, and others.
Jim

Excellent site Chuck. Thanks
"chuck h" wrote in message
.. .
A good site for information is www.yandina.com (afaik the manufacturer of
West Marine combiners). Quite detailed information on how combiner works
as
well as about lots of other electrical stuff.

Chuck H.

".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
m...
".JIMinMA." wrote in message
...
Use two 5 watt solar panels and a continuous duty isolator relay. It
can't
get any simpler than that.
Jim

Okay sounds good. The isolator would connect to what other than the
two batteries? And it's purpose would be to keep anything on the boat
from pulling from the aux right? Also, would 5watts overcharge the
batteries and require a controller?

Yes, the batteries would have no load while sitting, but I'm recalling
those two week trips and my car not starting when I got back.

Thanks!
The relay would be turned on by the ignition switch. You could add an
isolator relay delay and make the installation a little more
sophisticated.
Don't worry about overcharging. Look at the Intellitec web site for
details
on the products I mentioned, and others.
Jim

Simple.

One battery (bank) hooked up to start the engine and the the engine
alternator charges this bank (normal wiring).

Two battery (bank) hooked up to run whatever you want.

Battery combiner (West Marine Catalog) hooked between the two batteries.

When the battery voltage on either battery rises above the cutin voltage of
the combiner the batteries are connected and BOTH charge. When voltage
drops below the cutout voltage of the combiner the batteries are
disconnected.

Complex (my boat)

Starting battery, one group 24, for main engine, stock engine alternator
charges this battery.

Starting battery , one group 24, for generator, no direct charging.

House battery bank, 8 Trojan deep cycle batteries, 880AHr, charged by, 1)
130A alternater on main engine 2)100A alternater on generator, 3) 400Watt
wind generator, 4)400+Watts of solar panels, 5)100A battery charger in
inverter.

Three battery combiners, Main starting battery to generator starting
battery. Generator starting battery to House batteries. House batteries to
main starting battery. Note multiple paths. This was not by plan, I
accidently purchase three combiners and decided to install them all. Only
two were needed.

Battery switchs used in emergency starting and charging. Main engine,
starting battery and house batteries. Generator, starting battery and house
batteries.

Everything on the boat except for starting the engine or generator runs off
the house bank of batteries.

Mike