Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

K. Smith wrote:

Billgran wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

But those high HP engines of 10-40 years ago were not the new EPA approved

2

Strokes. The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.



Ah, you haven't see the Evinrude E-TEC yet. When you remove the cover, there
ain't much there compared to a 4-stroke. There is little wiring since it is
magneto controlled ( it doesn't run off a battery), the ECU (computer) is
compact, and hoses a fittings are at a minimum. It does not look like
previous engines that resembled the under-hood look of today's cars.

Emissions wise, the E-TEC emits a smaller total amount of hydrocarbons,
oxides of nitrogen, and carbon monoxide than any 4-stroke. It also meets the
stricter European emission requirements that are tougher than the California
3-star test. Evinrude says that they will be the first outboard company to
have ALL thier motors meet the 3-star 2008 requirements.

The 250 hp E-TEC is quieter than the Yamaha 250 4-stroke at full throttle
and the same at mid-speeds according to Powerboat Reports.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Bill you are just marketing or spamming again as you have since the
beginning of Ficht, you personally have deceived many with this crap.

Ahhh. Ms. Karen "I've never seen one of these newfangled outboards"
Smith pipes in -again- with more of her Luddite nonsense.




It's quieter than or cleaner than, it's tidier really tidier???:-) what
a hoot!!! so what??

So what? So what? We have antipollution laws now, that's what's so what,
you ignorant twit.


You & your fellow dealers are just BS again to make sales; you have no
clue whatsoever if E-tec will work, it's more experimenting with
consumers' money. You only know what you been told to parrot to the
public, true or false you have no care.


I'd take the word of Bill Grannis *any day* all day long over the word
of non-accomoplished whiner like you. You have no credentials.



Like Ficht I tell you again

....and again and again and again and again and again and again...
....and again and again and again and again and again and again...
....and again and again and again and again and again and again...
....and again and again and again and again and again and again...


And never with any documentation or statistics.



--
We have nothing to fear..
....but four more years of George W. Bush.

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:17:53 GMT, "Billgran"
wrote:


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...
But those high HP engines of 10-40 years ago were not the new EPA approved
2
Strokes. The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.


Ah, you haven't see the Evinrude E-TEC yet. When you remove the cover, there
ain't much there compared to a 4-stroke. There is little wiring since it is
magneto controlled ( it doesn't run off a battery), the ECU (computer) is
compact, and hoses a fittings are at a minimum. It does not look like
previous engines that resembled the under-hood look of today's cars.

Emissions wise, the E-TEC emits a smaller total amount of hydrocarbons,
oxides of nitrogen, and carbon monoxide than any 4-stroke. It also meets the
stricter European emission requirements that are tougher than the California
3-star test. Evinrude says that they will be the first outboard company to
have ALL thier motors meet the 3-star 2008 requirements.

The 250 hp E-TEC is quieter than the Yamaha 250 4-stroke at full throttle
and the same at mid-speeds according to Powerboat Reports.

Hey Bill

Were you at that meeting in Florida a month or two ago?

Did they really do that Honda Civic, E-TEC test I was told about?

I'm telling you - after hearing all the good stuff about E-TEC, I'm in
for two for the Contender.

Later,

Tom

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

Billgran wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

But those high HP engines of 10-40 years ago were not the new EPA approved

2

Strokes. The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.



Ah, you haven't see the Evinrude E-TEC yet. When you remove the cover, there
ain't much there compared to a 4-stroke. There is little wiring since it is
magneto controlled ( it doesn't run off a battery), the ECU (computer) is
compact, and hoses a fittings are at a minimum. It does not look like
previous engines that resembled the under-hood look of today's cars.

Emissions wise, the E-TEC emits a smaller total amount of hydrocarbons,
oxides of nitrogen, and carbon monoxide than any 4-stroke. It also meets the
stricter European emission requirements that are tougher than the California
3-star test. Evinrude says that they will be the first outboard company to
have ALL thier motors meet the 3-star 2008 requirements.

The 250 hp E-TEC is quieter than the Yamaha 250 4-stroke at full throttle
and the same at mid-speeds according to Powerboat Reports.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Bill you are just marketing or spamming again as you have since the
beginning of Ficht, you personally have deceived many with this crap.

It's quieter than or cleaner than, it's tidier really tidier???:-) what
a hoot!!! so what?? the real issue is how do you get away from the fact
they run lean at low revs despite you outright untruths when you say "no
it doesn't, it's stratified" please people have learned from your Ficht,
Bomb debacles & you still need "special" (read expensive dealer only)
oil & "special" alloy in the pistons to what?? resist the heat buildup??

You & your fellow dealers are just BS again to make sales; you have no
clue whatsoever if E-tec will work, it's more experimenting with
consumers' money. You only know what you been told to parrot to the
public, true or false you have no care.

Like Ficht I tell you again & care not if you believe, that this
carries the same basic design defect of Ficht, lean mixtures, not enough
fuel atomisation from too low an injection pressure & the usual
problems created by heat buildup in the chamber. I'll leave the ignition
& lubrication problems for another day:-) & there will be another day:-)

I have to say you are as brazen as Harry & about as clever, to think
after Ficht panned out you still come here with you dealer sell spam.



K

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...


Like Ficht I tell you again & care not if you believe, that this
carries the same basic design defect of Ficht, lean mixtures, not enough
fuel atomisation from too low an injection pressure & the usual
problems created by heat buildup in the chamber.

I understand that in Australia, that Johnson-Evinrude beat out Mercury for
market share recently. That must mean there are a lot of Bombardier FICHTS,
traditional 2-strokes, and a season's full of E-TECs sold down there.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

K. Smith wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:


Billgran wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...


But those high HP engines of 10-40 years ago were not the new EPA approved

2


Strokes. The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.



Ah, you haven't see the Evinrude E-TEC yet. When you remove the cover, there
ain't much there compared to a 4-stroke. There is little wiring since it is
magneto controlled ( it doesn't run off a battery), the ECU (computer) is
compact, and hoses a fittings are at a minimum. It does not look like
previous engines that resembled the under-hood look of today's cars.

Emissions wise, the E-TEC emits a smaller total amount of hydrocarbons,
oxides of nitrogen, and carbon monoxide than any 4-stroke. It also meets the
stricter European emission requirements that are tougher than the California
3-star test. Evinrude says that they will be the first outboard company to
have ALL thier motors meet the 3-star 2008 requirements.

The 250 hp E-TEC is quieter than the Yamaha 250 4-stroke at full throttle
and the same at mid-speeds according to Powerboat Reports.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Bill you are just marketing or spamming again as you have since the
beginning of Ficht, you personally have deceived many with this crap.


Ahhh. Ms. Karen "I've never seen one of these newfangled outboards"
Smith pipes in -again- with more of her Luddite nonsense.




It's quieter than or cleaner than, it's tidier really tidier???:-) what
a hoot!!! so what??


So what? So what? We have antipollution laws now, that's what's so what,
you ignorant twit.

It's more marketing crap the same BS line they used to run when
deceptively selling faulty fichts, ALL OBs marketed particularly in the
US meet the current standards, as for the future standards???

Loo, it isn't anyone's fault that you don't get it. Most Americans want
quieter outboards, and if Outboard X is noticeably quieter than Outboard
Y, then that will appeal to many. One can only imagine the noise level
of the piece of crap "diesel outboard" you had welded together.

As for pollution, many Americans are interested in that, too.





You & your fellow dealers are just BS again to make sales; you have no
clue whatsoever if E-tec will work, it's more experimenting with
consumers' money. You only know what you been told to parrot to the
public, true or false you have no care.



I'd take the word of Bill Grannis *any day* all day long over the word
of non-accomoplished whiner like you. You have no credentials.

Bill is an OB mechanic & not even very knowledgeable at that


Bill is a first-rate outboard technician, quite knowledgeable,
published, and a first-class human being. As far as anyone here knows,
you have no credentials whatsoever, you have not written any technical
or user articles that any publication has printed, and you come across
as an argumentative, perseverating, loud-mouthed asshole. Ergo, I would
take Bill's word over yours on anything. YOU HAVE NO CREDENTIALS.

, remember
despite claiming 30 yrs experience we had to teach him how the old 2
strokes controlled idle speed??

Bull****.


--
We have nothing to fear..
....but four more years of George W. Bush.

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:


Billgran wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...


But those high HP engines of 10-40 years ago were not the new EPA approved

2


Strokes. The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.



Ah, you haven't see the Evinrude E-TEC yet. When you remove the cover, there
ain't much there compared to a 4-stroke. There is little wiring since it is
magneto controlled ( it doesn't run off a battery), the ECU (computer) is
compact, and hoses a fittings are at a minimum. It does not look like
previous engines that resembled the under-hood look of today's cars.

Emissions wise, the E-TEC emits a smaller total amount of hydrocarbons,
oxides of nitrogen, and carbon monoxide than any 4-stroke. It also meets the
stricter European emission requirements that are tougher than the California
3-star test. Evinrude says that they will be the first outboard company to
have ALL thier motors meet the 3-star 2008 requirements.

The 250 hp E-TEC is quieter than the Yamaha 250 4-stroke at full throttle
and the same at mid-speeds according to Powerboat Reports.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Bill you are just marketing or spamming again as you have since the
beginning of Ficht, you personally have deceived many with this crap.


Ahhh. Ms. Karen "I've never seen one of these newfangled outboards"
Smith pipes in -again- with more of her Luddite nonsense.




It's quieter than or cleaner than, it's tidier really tidier???:-) what
a hoot!!! so what??


So what? So what? We have antipollution laws now, that's what's so what,
you ignorant twit.

It's more marketing crap the same BS line they used to run when
deceptively selling faulty fichts, ALL OBs marketed particularly in the
US meet the current standards, as for the future standards??? like Ficht
we only have their word for it & Ficht didn't even make it to 2001:-)
They're hoping people will be silly enough to think their new engine
will be outlawed if it doesn't meet off into the future standards, of
course it won't. So what I say is "so what" simpleton marketing line
delivered by simpletons to take in simpletons; hey it's got you, there's
the proof:-)



You & your fellow dealers are just BS again to make sales; you have no
clue whatsoever if E-tec will work, it's more experimenting with
consumers' money. You only know what you been told to parrot to the
public, true or false you have no care.



I'd take the word of Bill Grannis *any day* all day long over the word
of non-accomoplished whiner like you. You have no credentials.

Bill is an OB mechanic & not even very knowledgeable at that, remember
despite claiming 30 yrs experience we had to teach him how the old 2
strokes controlled idle speed?? he still hasn't figured out why & how
VRO failed, still is in denial about Ficht, damn he's even told this NG
they were pretty good & "he" never saw a blown one:-) so I guess you
being taken in by his marketing spam just proves it again about the
easiest to take in are ......, well you are an outright liar, Bill is
just trying to spam a buck & gee I guess that's how OB dealers & their
employees go about it.



Like Ficht I tell you again


...and again and again and again and again and again and again...
...and again and again and again and again and again and again...
...and again and again and again and again and again and again...
...and again and again and again and again and again and again...


And never with any documentation or statistics.

Geee but we were right about Ficht & Opti, that really gets up your
dirty ever growing nose hey:-)

Documentation?? go to your employers the union pension funds, ask them
where the workers' 1.3 Bil went when they gave it to their good left
leaning (little play on the word "lean" there in case you missed it;-))
mate Sorell?? it was pi...ed against the Ficht wall.

I guess you & your other bent union thugs don't care, after all it's
just genuine workers' money & it makes the amounts your mob take seem
less odious.

You are a liar Harry not much else to be said.

K

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

Billgran wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...


Like Ficht I tell you again & care not if you believe, that this
carries the same basic design defect of Ficht, lean mixtures, not enough
fuel atomisation from too low an injection pressure & the usual
problems created by heat buildup in the chamber.


I understand that in Australia, that Johnson-Evinrude beat out Mercury for
market share recently. That must mean there are a lot of Bombardier FICHTS,
traditional 2-strokes, and a season's full of E-TECs sold down there.

Bill Grannis
service manager



I mentioned it before & honestly mean it
where did all the Fichts go??? Honestly there are a few sad dealers
still trying to unload "demo" boats with Fichts etc etc but they just
disappeared almost overnight:-)

There were lots of them around then poof they're gone I can't imagine
they all blew up but I guess it's just not possible to sell a boat with
a Ficht almost as any price.

So where does the picture go when you turn off the telly??

Please Bill we are just going to argue if you go back into you spam as
you have with Ficht, & honestly be warned this latest resurrection will
have the same outcome, for the very same reasons.

There must be some fast talkers left over from OMC to still get people
to give them money to experiment with.

Got some really bad news for you too Bill, Harry believes you!!! & is
trying (again) to support you:-) too easy you have the Harry & Ficht
albatross around your neck:-)

K

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net...

The new engines are mechanical monstrosities.

If you remember, when you were young, that's what they said about the
horseless carriage.

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

Unfortunately no it doesn't.

"HLAviation" wrote in message
ink.net...
An exhaust valve solves that problem.

"JamesgangNC" wrote in message
ink.net...
Because that doesn't address the burn problem. 2 strokes do not burn
clean
because the intake and exhaust all happens at the same time. Over a
wide
rpm range you invariably have fuel that escapes with the exhaust.
That's
the problem they're trying to solve because they have to meet emission
standards now.

"HLAviation" wrote in message
link.net...
Ya know, a 2 stroke doesn't have to oil the bottom end through the
fuel.
I've always wondered why the OB manufacturers didn't change the design
to
a
closed crankcase design with a dry sump oil system and a simple
supercharger. Cheaper, simpler, proven.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JamesgangNC wrote:
Not taking a position on Karen's usefulness but I have to agree
with
her
position on 2 strokes. There is just far too much established 4
stroke
engineering that can be used to make reliable riskfree 4 stroke
products.
Trying to make a 2 stroke low emission is just not worth it.
Doing
so
negates one of the biggests advantages of a two stroke, it's
simplicity.

Do you have some legitimate statistics that demonstrate that four
stroke
outboards are measurably more reliable and riskfree than
two-stroke
outboards. I mean generally, say, for the last 50 years of
production,
in horsepowers of 150 or more. Big, highly stressed engine. The
real
deals.

I'll be glad to read them with great interest.

Not opinions. Genuine, scientifically based statistics.


--
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush;
A vote for Bush is a vote for Apocalypse.

50 years is too far back. Those 2 strokes were simple. The Optimax
and
Ficht of the last 10 years have not shown a lot of reliability.
Witness
the
demise of original OMC. With the big Honda a basic high performance
car
engine with a dry sump. there should be great reliability. The
E-Tec,
etc,
with the addition of air compressors, low amount of lubrication at
the
lower
end as the requirements for less oil and emissions. Makes for a
engine
that
is on the edge of reliability.
Bill

Why Ficht failed & why 2stroke OBs are thankfully gone (almost:-))
 

Why not?

"JamesgangNC" wrote in message
ink.net...
Unfortunately no it doesn't.

"HLAviation" wrote in message
ink.net...
An exhaust valve solves that problem.

"JamesgangNC" wrote in message
ink.net...
Because that doesn't address the burn problem. 2 strokes do not burn
clean
because the intake and exhaust all happens at the same time. Over a
wide
rpm range you invariably have fuel that escapes with the exhaust.
That's
the problem they're trying to solve because they have to meet emission
standards now.

"HLAviation" wrote in message
link.net...
Ya know, a 2 stroke doesn't have to oil the bottom end through the
fuel.
I've always wondered why the OB manufacturers didn't change the
design
to
a
closed crankcase design with a dry sump oil system and a simple
supercharger. Cheaper, simpler, proven.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JamesgangNC wrote:
Not taking a position on Karen's usefulness but I have to
agree
with
her
position on 2 strokes. There is just far too much established
4
stroke
engineering that can be used to make reliable riskfree 4
stroke
products.
Trying to make a 2 stroke low emission is just not worth it.
Doing
so
negates one of the biggests advantages of a two stroke, it's
simplicity.

Do you have some legitimate statistics that demonstrate that
four
stroke
outboards are measurably more reliable and riskfree than
two-stroke
outboards. I mean generally, say, for the last 50 years of
production,
in horsepowers of 150 or more. Big, highly stressed engine. The
real
deals.

I'll be glad to read them with great interest.

Not opinions. Genuine, scientifically based statistics.


--
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush;
A vote for Bush is a vote for Apocalypse.

50 years is too far back. Those 2 strokes were simple. The
Optimax
and
Ficht of the last 10 years have not shown a lot of reliability.
Witness
the
demise of original OMC. With the big Honda a basic high
performance
car
engine with a dry sump. there should be great reliability. The
E-Tec,
etc,
with the addition of air compressors, low amount of lubrication at
the
lower
end as the requirements for less oil and emissions. Makes for a
engine
that
is on the edge of reliability.
Bill