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Old August 14th 19, 08:54 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default From where do Chicago guns come

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

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Old August 14th 19, 11:29 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.


Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."
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Old August 15th 19, 01:05 AM posted to rec.boats
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Posts: 8,565
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.


Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."


Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.
  #4   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 01:57 AM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,539
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.


Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."


Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.


That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.
  #5   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 11:09 AM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,565
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."


Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.


That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.


Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?


  #6   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 04:20 PM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,539
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 06:09:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."

Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.


That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.


Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?


Because if these guns were brought in by the original purchaser 10
years ago it isn't a straw purchase. By a like token if they are not
also searching Illinois records, only doing a search on the ATF
database, a distributor in Indiana might have originally bought the
gun from the manufacturer and wholesaled it to an illinois FFL.
I just never trust a study when the group doing the study has an
agenda. I was a database guy for years and I know how you can
manipulate data to get the desired result.
It is like the old TV ad "Eight out of 10 doctors recommend Camels".
  #7   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 06:53 PM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,565
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:20:25 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 06:09:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."

Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.

That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.


Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?


Because if these guns were brought in by the original purchaser 10
years ago it isn't a straw purchase. By a like token if they are not
also searching Illinois records, only doing a search on the ATF
database, a distributor in Indiana might have originally bought the
gun from the manufacturer and wholesaled it to an illinois FFL.
I just never trust a study when the group doing the study has an
agenda. I was a database guy for years and I know how you can
manipulate data to get the desired result.
It is like the old TV ad "Eight out of 10 doctors recommend Camels".


No one said they were all straw purchases. I simply pointed out how easy it would be to do so. What
makes you think they are not searching Illinois records. How else would they know about the
following:

"The two single largest sources of Chicago crime guns over the four years covered by the report were
dealers well known to authorities and to antiviolence activists. Almost a thousand guns that turned
up at crime scenes were linked to Chuckís Gun Shop located on Chicagoís Southeast Side in the suburb
of Riverdale. Midwest Sporting Goods on the West Side in the suburb of Lyons supplied nearly 700
crime guns."

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/quar...t-ten-dealers/

What part of all this do you think is 'made up'?
  #8   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 07:20 PM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,030
Default From where do Chicago guns come

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:20:25 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 06:09:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."

Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.

That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.

Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were
imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun
purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?


Because if these guns were brought in by the original purchaser 10
years ago it isn't a straw purchase. By a like token if they are not
also searching Illinois records, only doing a search on the ATF
database, a distributor in Indiana might have originally bought the
gun from the manufacturer and wholesaled it to an illinois FFL.
I just never trust a study when the group doing the study has an
agenda. I was a database guy for years and I know how you can
manipulate data to get the desired result.
It is like the old TV ad "Eight out of 10 doctors recommend Camels".


No one said they were all straw purchases. I simply pointed out how easy
it would be to do so. What
makes you think they are not searching Illinois records. How else would they know about the
following:

"The two single largest sources of Chicago crime guns over the four years
covered by the report were
dealers well known to authorities and to antiviolence activists. Almost a
thousand guns that turned
up at crime scenes were linked to Chuck’s Gun Shop located on Chicago’s
Southeast Side in the suburb
of Riverdale. Midwest Sporting Goods on the West Side in the suburb of
Lyons supplied nearly 700
crime guns."

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/quar...t-ten-dealers/

What part of all this do you think is 'made up'?


So, most of the guns are stolen within 100 miles of Chicago.

  #9   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 08:05 PM posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,184
Default From where do Chicago guns come

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 18:20:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:20:25 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 06:09:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."

Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.

That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.

Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were
imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun
purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?

Because if these guns were brought in by the original purchaser 10
years ago it isn't a straw purchase. By a like token if they are not
also searching Illinois records, only doing a search on the ATF
database, a distributor in Indiana might have originally bought the
gun from the manufacturer and wholesaled it to an illinois FFL.
I just never trust a study when the group doing the study has an
agenda. I was a database guy for years and I know how you can
manipulate data to get the desired result.
It is like the old TV ad "Eight out of 10 doctors recommend Camels".


No one said they were all straw purchases. I simply pointed out how easy
it would be to do so. What
makes you think they are not searching Illinois records. How else would they know about the
following:

"The two single largest sources of Chicago crime guns over the four years
covered by the report were
dealers well known to authorities and to antiviolence activists. Almost a
thousand guns that turned
up at crime scenes were linked to Chuck?s Gun Shop located on Chicago?s
Southeast Side in the suburb
of Riverdale. Midwest Sporting Goods on the West Side in the suburb of
Lyons supplied nearly 700
crime guns."

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/quar...t-ten-dealers/

What part of all this do you think is 'made up'?


So, most of the guns are stolen within 100 miles of Chicago.


===

It stands to reason that many stolen guns would trace back to high
volume local dealers. On the other hand, if a lot of crime guns that
were not reported stolen trace back to those same dealers, it could
point out a problem with background checks or straw purchases.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #10   Report Post  
Old August 15th 19, 08:13 PM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,030
Default From where do Chicago guns come

wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 18:20:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:20:25 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 06:09:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:57:50 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:05:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:29:01 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:54:02 -0400, John H.
wrote:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...came-from.html

Good article.

Again without more context, it is meaningless. When were these guns
bought? Were they brought into Chicago by emigrants from those other
states?

Example from the "study"
"During the migration of families from the South in the 1940s and
1970s, Chicago was a top destination, according to James N. Gregory, a
history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were
more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other
Southern states."

Yup, those guns were probably brought in by immigrants to Chicago.
Read the related article in the NYT.

That is why I am saying we really need more context. If someone moved
to Chicago, bringing a gun during the Johnson administration and it
was stolen by or just handed down to someone who commits a crime, it
would still pop as a gun from Mississippi imported into Chicago and
they would make it look contemporary. If they are really going to
query the ATF data base, they should give us the date of that record.

Why? The articles show where the guns come from, not when they were
imported. What difference does
it make to the original premise, that strawman (e.g., girlfriend) gun
purchases are supplying
Chicago with lots of guns?

Because if these guns were brought in by the original purchaser 10
years ago it isn't a straw purchase. By a like token if they are not
also searching Illinois records, only doing a search on the ATF
database, a distributor in Indiana might have originally bought the
gun from the manufacturer and wholesaled it to an illinois FFL.
I just never trust a study when the group doing the study has an
agenda. I was a database guy for years and I know how you can
manipulate data to get the desired result.
It is like the old TV ad "Eight out of 10 doctors recommend Camels".

No one said they were all straw purchases. I simply pointed out how easy
it would be to do so. What
makes you think they are not searching Illinois records. How else would
they know about the
following:

"The two single largest sources of Chicago crime guns over the four years
covered by the report were
dealers well known to authorities and to antiviolence activists. Almost a
thousand guns that turned
up at crime scenes were linked to Chuck?s Gun Shop located on Chicago?s
Southeast Side in the suburb
of Riverdale. Midwest Sporting Goods on the West Side in the suburb of
Lyons supplied nearly 700
crime guns."

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/quar...t-ten-dealers/

What part of all this do you think is 'made up'?


So, most of the guns are stolen within 100 miles of Chicago.


===

It stands to reason that many stolen guns would trace back to high
volume local dealers. On the other hand, if a lot of crime guns that
were not reported stolen trace back to those same dealers, it could
point out a problem with background checks or straw purchases.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



I think a big percentage of shooters in Chicago are probably to young to
actually buy a gun. Therefore, they acquire stolen guns.



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