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Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:19:39 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:11:27 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:47:59 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 12:36 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:49:38 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:36 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:54:13 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: No *reputable* mental health professional will offer an expert opinion on someone's mental health without a serious, in-person evaluation, and maybe more than one evaluation So all of them that have lined up with a diagnosis on Trump are disreputable. Good to know. (and from as highly an educated person as yourself) I'm not aware of any reputable mental health professionals who have offered an expert opinion/diagnosis of Trump mental/emotional disorders in the absence of a serious, in-person evaluation of him. So these people are all "disreputable"? OK by me, We finally agree on something. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/me-we/201708/petition-declaring-trump-mentally-ill-pushes-signers Ahh, the duty to worn...interesting. Is that a "but what about"? It does call into question your statement and reinforces mine. Is that Kansas spelling of warn? Professional college educated writer there ;-) === He was trying to warn us that his bull**** excuses are worn out. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote: On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really just depends on what state they are in. Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do not have to involve working as a therapist. If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar tenders or hair dressers. I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not need a license. It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you are not seeing patients. What are you doing? Cleaning the office? Answering the phone? Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and disdain for academic study. How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not dealing with patients? Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance his way out of it ... again. The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion. Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be licensed. That you and others here are unaware of that is a reflection of your ignorance and intellectual laziness. Just to pick two examples, in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be licensed in psychology. How do you do an accredited academic psychology study if you are not licensed? Let's say your dissertation involves surveying attitudes towards X, Y, or Z, and you design the survey, pick the audience, mail the survey to recipients, get the completed surveys back, code the results and analyze them. You typically need academic credentials to have the survey accepted, but you don't have to be licensed. And once again, Fretwell, you have demonstrated why it makes no sense to "debate" you. Your answer regards someone working on a psychology degree, not a psychologist. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
Keyser Soze wrote:
wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:13:33 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 4:32 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:39:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:43 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 12:33 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:46:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? I never failed to "got it". You need a professional license to mix drinks, cut hair or paint fingernails but you say you can be a psychologist without one. That just demonstrates how "unprofessional" that business is considered to be by the government in some states. (Not Florida, they all need some kind of license) If you are not practicing as a therapist, you do not need a license. Read that a few times until you understand it. When my wife got her Master's in Florida, she had to work as a therapist for a substantial period of time under the supervision of a licensed therapist before she could even take the exam to become licensed. I seem to recall that "period of time" back then was a year or so. The exam itself was a killer back then, with a high failure rate. My wife got 90% on her first try and was one of the few of several hundred tested that day who passed. Then, she had to study for and pass a national exam to become a licensed "clinical" therapist. After completing studies for her doctorate and writing her doctoral dissertation and having it accepted, she then had to take a three-day written exam and a day-long oral exam defending her dissertation to get her Ph.D. I'd love to see such an exam. How do you know if an answer is correct or wrong? That's an easy one. You just have to agree with what the professor thinks, whether that professor has ever treated a patient or not. Ahh, ignorance. You have it in abundance. I am also not sure what constitutes a cure. I have never actually seen one. I understand they usually drug the patients into serenity but that is like using pain killers to treat a broken arm. You may feel better but your arm is still broken. And even more ignorance. Great debate style, if you are 10. Your expertise in areas in which you know next to nothing overwhelms. You don't know what constitutes a cure but you have never seen one. Logic at its very essence. Show me a cured bipolar patient. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:56:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote: On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really just depends on what state they are in. Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do not have to involve working as a therapist. If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar tenders or hair dressers. I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not need a license. It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you are not seeing patients. What are you doing? Cleaning the office? Answering the phone? Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and disdain for academic study. How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not dealing with patients? Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance his way out of it ... again. The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion. Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be licensed. I acknowledged that, basically just recommending what motivates people. juvenile insult snipped Just to pick two examples, in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be licensed in psychology. Those that can do, Those that can't teach. I know. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:08:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote: On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really just depends on what state they are in. Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do not have to involve working as a therapist. If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar tenders or hair dressers. I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not need a license. It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you are not seeing patients. What are you doing? Cleaning the office? Answering the phone? Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and disdain for academic study. How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not dealing with patients? Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance his way out of it ... again. The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion. Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be licensed. That you and others here are unaware of that is a reflection of your ignorance and intellectual laziness. Just to pick two examples, in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be licensed in psychology. How do you do an accredited academic psychology study if you are not licensed? Let's say your dissertation involves surveying attitudes towards X, Y, or Z, and you design the survey, pick the audience, mail the survey to recipients, get the completed surveys back, code the results and analyze them. You typically need academic credentials to have the survey accepted, but you don't have to be licensed. And once again, Fretwell, you have demonstrated why it makes no sense to "debate" you. Your answer regards someone working on a psychology degree, not a psychologist. Exactly. People can parlay a psychology degree into lots of things but a distressing number of them are analyzing people by how they order their Venti Iced Pumpkin Spice Chai Latte at Starbucks. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. How much trouble will it be to extend the circuits from the existing panel? That was one reason why I did not want to go the transfer switch route. By going with the panel interlock I did not need to reroute circuits and with my layout, there was actually no way to do it without setting the generator right outside my bedroom window. It also eliminated the problem of choosing a half dozen circuits I wanted to use and losing the rest. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/4/2018 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. How much trouble will it be to extend the circuits from the existing panel? That was one reason why I did not want to go the transfer switch route. By going with the panel interlock I did not need to reroute circuits and with my layout, there was actually no way to do it without setting the generator right outside my bedroom window. It also eliminated the problem of choosing a half dozen circuits I wanted to use and losing the rest. Fortunately both indoor power panels are located on walls directly inside of where the outdoor transfer switch will be located. Extending the circuits to be transferred will only be about four feet of wiring each way. No big deal. I understand how you do it ... I did that for a while after Wilma in Florida with the bigger, gas guzzling 249v generator I had and I didn't even use a panel interlock. Just shut the main off and fed the generator power to the load side of the main. Doing that is fine temporarily (although illegal) as long as you know what you are doing. The transfer switch makes it easy and fool proof especially for my neighbor. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:08:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote: On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really just depends on what state they are in. Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do not have to involve working as a therapist. If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar tenders or hair dressers. I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not need a license. It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you are not seeing patients. What are you doing? Cleaning the office? Answering the phone? Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and disdain for academic study. How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not dealing with patients? Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance his way out of it ... again. The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion. Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be licensed. That you and others here are unaware of that is a reflection of your ignorance and intellectual laziness. Just to pick two examples, in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be licensed in psychology. How do you do an accredited academic psychology study if you are not licensed? Let's say your dissertation involves surveying attitudes towards X, Y, or Z, and you design the survey, pick the audience, mail the survey to recipients, get the completed surveys back, code the results and analyze them. You typically need academic credentials to have the survey accepted, but you don't have to be licensed. And once again, Fretwell, you have demonstrated why it makes no sense to "debate" you. Your answer regards someone working on a psychology degree, not a psychologist. Exactly. People can parlay a psychology degree into lots of things but a distressing number of them are analyzing people by how they order their Venti Iced Pumpkin Spice Chai Latte at Starbucks. I worked with a guy in the 1980’s who had his degree in psychology. Said he went to,school to figure out why he was so screwed up. He stated, failed that part, but found out he loved statistics. Did our system bench marks. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/4/2018 10:09 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. How much trouble will it be to extend the circuits from the existing panel? That was one reason why I did not want to go the transfer switch route. By going with the panel interlock I did not need to reroute circuits and with my layout, there was actually no way to do it without setting the generator right outside my bedroom window. It also eliminated the problem of choosing a half dozen circuits I wanted to use and losing the rest. Fortunately both indoor power panels are located on walls directly inside of where the outdoor transfer switch will be located. Extending the circuits to be transferred will only be about four feet of wiring each way. No big deal. I understand how you do it ... I did that for a while after Wilma in Florida with the bigger, gas guzzling 249v generator I had and I didn't even use a panel interlock. Just shut the main off and fed the generator power to the load side of the main. Doing that is fine temporarily (although illegal) as long as you know what you are doing. The transfer switch makes it easy and fool proof especially for my neighbor. I sort of wonder how my panel is setup. Has a warning there is a secondary AC source. I have rooftop solar panels. The panel is designed to work with solar panels. Maybe you just have to,turn off the circuit breakers for the panels. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 22:31:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/4/2018 10:09 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. How much trouble will it be to extend the circuits from the existing panel? That was one reason why I did not want to go the transfer switch route. By going with the panel interlock I did not need to reroute circuits and with my layout, there was actually no way to do it without setting the generator right outside my bedroom window. It also eliminated the problem of choosing a half dozen circuits I wanted to use and losing the rest. Fortunately both indoor power panels are located on walls directly inside of where the outdoor transfer switch will be located. Extending the circuits to be transferred will only be about four feet of wiring each way. No big deal. I understand how you do it ... I did that for a while after Wilma in Florida with the bigger, gas guzzling 249v generator I had and I didn't even use a panel interlock. Just shut the main off and fed the generator power to the load side of the main. Doing that is fine temporarily (although illegal) as long as you know what you are doing. The transfer switch makes it easy and fool proof especially for my neighbor. The interlock is just a legal way to do that same thing since your back feed from the generator can't be turned un until you turn the main off. The same is true when you go the other way. My problem is the house panel is in our bedroom and the main panel is in the garage. I want the generator on the other side of the garage. That is at least 60 feet away, maybe more like 75 the way the wire has to run through the garage and it is illegal to feed through the garage from the house so it is even worse than that. You just can't get there from here. Basically a regular transfer switch is not happening. Where you are it is something that will make sense assuming the generator is in a good spot for you (noise, CO etc) but you are still limiting the circuits you can feed. I would be very selective in what you put on the transfer switch and more is better, just because you want to try to avoid dead zones in the house. General lighting does not use a lot of power but it usually gets spread across a lot of circuits. You can "practice" by turning off all the breakers you don't think you need and spending an evening there. If you are stringing extension cords around the house just for lights, TV, phone chargers and such you haven't accomplished much. Your older neighbor may actually have a smaller footprint in the house than you so it may not be a problem at all for him. My FIL could live off of a single extension cord with a plug strip on the end since his family room, bedroom and bathroom only use about 500 square feet of a pretty big house. The kitchen is right there too. with no real wall between it. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 03:04:12 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: I sort of wonder how my panel is setup. Has a warning there is a secondary AC source. I have rooftop solar panels. The panel is designed to work with solar panels. Maybe you just have to,turn off the circuit breakers for the panels. If you have a grid tie system the panels go to a back feed breaker on the bus, usually at the bottom. There is no power from the collectors if the grid fails but I think a small generator or even a good sized inverter would tickle the inverter and bring them back to life. You would still need a panel interlock for your generator/inverter. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:56:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/4/18 8:12 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:35:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote: Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 5:23 PM, wrote: On 4 Oct 2018 20:52:05 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote: wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:30:26 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Your statement that psychologists can work without a license really just depends on what state they are in. Once again, your educational limitations exceed your reach. If you are not practicing, you do not need a license. "Work" is a term that opens the door to many rooms, and in the case of psychologists, those rooms do not have to involve working as a therapist. If you are saying they can help design ad campaigns to appeal to a certain demographic, you are right but if they are seeing patients in Florida they need some kind of a license, even if they are just bar tenders or hair dressers. I've posted several times that if you are not seeing patients, you do not need a license. It does call into question how you work being a psychologist if you are not seeing patients. What are you doing? Cleaning the office? Answering the phone? Your raising that question once again demonstrates your ignorance and disdain for academic study. How can you do an accredited academic study as a psychologist if not dealing with patients? Harry just got caught being wrong again and he is trying to tap dance his way out of it ... again. The M.O. is the usual one, insult and diversion. Psychologists have professional employment opportunities that have nothing to do with treating patients and if they are engaged in those sorts of activities, there is no need in many of those fields to be licensed. That you and others here are unaware of that is a reflection of your ignorance and intellectual laziness. Just to pick two examples, in many states, industrial and organizational psychologists do not have to be licensed. If they are not engaged in individual or group practice on the side, professors of psychology typically don't have to be licensed in psychology. How do you do an accredited academic psychology study if you are not licensed? Let's say your dissertation involves surveying attitudes towards X, Y, or Z, and you design the survey, pick the audience, mail the survey to recipients, get the completed surveys back, code the results and analyze them. You typically need academic credentials to have the survey accepted, but you don't have to be licensed. And once again, Fretwell, you have demonstrated why it makes no sense to "debate" you. You're describing a statistician, which, if you'll be honest, is what your non-patient-treating psychologists really are. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. Does your furnace fan motor take less than 1600 watts? I'd not thought of powering mine with the small generator, which I've sold, by the way. I like that idea of transfer switches. I'll have to tell son-in-law down in GA about that. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/4/2018 11:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 22:31:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 10:09 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. How much trouble will it be to extend the circuits from the existing panel? That was one reason why I did not want to go the transfer switch route. By going with the panel interlock I did not need to reroute circuits and with my layout, there was actually no way to do it without setting the generator right outside my bedroom window. It also eliminated the problem of choosing a half dozen circuits I wanted to use and losing the rest. Fortunately both indoor power panels are located on walls directly inside of where the outdoor transfer switch will be located. Extending the circuits to be transferred will only be about four feet of wiring each way. No big deal. I understand how you do it ... I did that for a while after Wilma in Florida with the bigger, gas guzzling 249v generator I had and I didn't even use a panel interlock. Just shut the main off and fed the generator power to the load side of the main. Doing that is fine temporarily (although illegal) as long as you know what you are doing. The transfer switch makes it easy and fool proof especially for my neighbor. The interlock is just a legal way to do that same thing since your back feed from the generator can't be turned un until you turn the main off. The same is true when you go the other way. My problem is the house panel is in our bedroom and the main panel is in the garage. I want the generator on the other side of the garage. That is at least 60 feet away, maybe more like 75 the way the wire has to run through the garage and it is illegal to feed through the garage from the house so it is even worse than that. You just can't get there from here. Basically a regular transfer switch is not happening. Where you are it is something that will make sense assuming the generator is in a good spot for you (noise, CO etc) but you are still limiting the circuits you can feed. I would be very selective in what you put on the transfer switch and more is better, just because you want to try to avoid dead zones in the house. General lighting does not use a lot of power but it usually gets spread across a lot of circuits. You can "practice" by turning off all the breakers you don't think you need and spending an evening there. If you are stringing extension cords around the house just for lights, TV, phone chargers and such you haven't accomplished much. Your older neighbor may actually have a smaller footprint in the house than you so it may not be a problem at all for him. My FIL could live off of a single extension cord with a plug strip on the end since his family room, bedroom and bathroom only use about 500 square feet of a pretty big house. The kitchen is right there too. with no real wall between it. The extension cord thing is what he (and I) did last year mainly to run the refrigerator and a lamp or two. We lost cable as well, so I had another extension cord run to a TV that I hooked up an antenna to and was able to receive 20 something digital channels, either from Boston or from Providence, RI. This was in a particularly cold period and after two days it was starting to get chilly so I pulled the feed wire for the furnace out of it's breaker in the power panel and connected a "cheater" cord to it that ran off the generator. Worked fine. I measured the current draw when the furnace and fan were running with a clamp-on and it was just about 6 amps, well within the Honda's max current rating of 13 amps. I didn't try but it probably could also have run the refrigerator and a few LED lights as long as the refrigerator compressor and furnace fan didn't try to start at the same time. It's really just a minor inconvenience anyway. Power failures of more than an hour or so are very rare. The outdoor transfer switch just makes it easier than running extension cords all over the place. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 7:01 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. Does your furnace fan motor take less than 1600 watts? I'd not thought of powering mine with the small generator, which I've sold, by the way. I like that idea of transfer switches. I'll have to tell son-in-law down in GA about that. The total running current with the furnace oil pump and fan motor running is just about 6 amps. There's a momentary starting current spike when the fan motor first kicks on but the Honda handles that fine. In fact, once the furnace is running the Honda will kick back to it's "Eco" mode, running at a lower RPM. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. -- Posted with my iPhone 8+. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 8:38 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Understand. You have a permanently installed whole house generator. You've made that clear many times. What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2018 8:38 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Understand. You have a permanently installed whole house generator. You've made that clear many times. What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. One of our neighbors about 10 years ago installed a big manual transfer switch/breaker switch in his garage, next to the existing breaker boxes. He has a 10kw genny on a cradle with wheels that he pushes out onto his driveway and then plugs in to the transfer switch/breaker box. Easy-peasey. -- Posted with my iPhone 8+. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The extension cord thing is what he (and I) did last year mainly to run the refrigerator and a lamp or two. We lost cable as well, so I had another extension cord run to a TV that I hooked up an antenna to and was able to receive 20 something digital channels, either from Boston or from Providence, RI. This was in a particularly cold period and after two days it was starting to get chilly so I pulled the feed wire for the furnace out of it's breaker in the power panel and connected a "cheater" cord to it that ran off the generator. Worked fine. I measured the current draw when the furnace and fan were running with a clamp-on and it was just about 6 amps, well within the Honda's max current rating of 13 amps. I didn't try but it probably could also have run the refrigerator and a few LED lights as long as the refrigerator compressor and furnace fan didn't try to start at the same time. It's really just a minor inconvenience anyway. Power failures of more than an hour or so are very rare. The outdoor transfer switch just makes it easier than running extension cords all over the place. Usually you have a disconnect switch for the furnace motor right there in a handy box. Swap the switch out for a SPDT switch (trade name 3 way). Connect one brass screw to the line and another to a cord with a plug on it. (black screw goes to the furnace) It will still function as the legally required disconnect as long as you don't have the plug connected to anything but it is also your transfer switch for the furnace., Plug that into an extension cord from the generator. Just be sure the transformer for the thermostat and igniter is on the load side of the switch so it transfers over too. Be aware most "air handlers" for HVAC systems (not a furnace) will have a 240v motor but that would be immediately apparent if you had a large 2 pole disconnect similar to the one on the outside unit instead of a simple snap switch. That is also the disconnect for the toaster wire heat strips. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:25:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. My panel is in the basement mounted on an outside wall. Installation should be a snap, with a hole already in the foundation. The wiring would be a different story. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:38:49 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Different subject. Or are just looking for attention. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:08:36 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. Installing the switch is not the expensive part. It is swinging over the 6 (or more) circuits you want to transfer. Your mileage will certainly vary on that one depending on where you want the generator and where the panel is. Also be aware generators may be putting out 115 volts and not 120 so voltage drop can be an issue. That feeder from the generator may have to be up sized if it is very long. I know it was a problem for my. The fridge in the kitchen was only seeing 106-108v on start up. I now have one of these for it. (a gift from Henk, my dutch friend) http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg It lets you adjust the voltage up or down. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:56:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/5/2018 8:38 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Understand. You have a permanently installed whole house generator. You've made that clear many times. What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. Oh hell, they probably have a wheel kit for that damn thing somewhere! |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:07:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 8:38 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Understand. You have a permanently installed whole house generator. You've made that clear many times. What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. One of our neighbors about 10 years ago installed a big manual transfer switch/breaker switch in his garage, next to the existing breaker boxes. He has a 10kw genny on a cradle with wheels that he pushes out onto his driveway and then plugs in to the transfer switch/breaker box. Easy-peasey. We're talking small, inverter generators and electricity management. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:56:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. You know, they invented this thing called a "wheel" about 10,000 years ago and they still work great ;-) Anything I have that is heavy, has wheels on it. Maybe your neighbor just needs a wheeled cart to move his generator. My briggs came with big wheels that roll pretty good even in the grass. It is 250 pounds or so tho. I put wheels on my drain snake. That sommich is 75# or so and I can lug it around but I really don't want to. It is one of those things that I have only used 3 or 4 times in a dozen years but it pays for itself every time. I feel the same way about the generator that I have only used once in 8 years. It is actually 13 years old and still only run once for 8 days, pretty much 24 hours a day. The guy I bought it from still had the factory tags on it. I don't think he ever started it. It might take a lot more outages to feel the same way about a generator that costs as much as my car. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:07:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
One of our neighbors about 10 years ago installed a big manual transfer switch/breaker switch in his garage, next to the existing breaker boxes. He has a 10kw genny on a cradle with wheels that he pushes out onto his driveway and then plugs in to the transfer switch/breaker box. Easy-peasey. That is about the way mine works. I have a panel interlock instead of a transfer switch. The inlet for the generator is under a car port on the far side of the garage, well away from the house along with the propane gas hookup. It takes a couple of minutes to get it going. It takes almost as long to swap the handle on the generator from the storage position to the rolling position as it does to get it hooked up. The only thing I turn off is the water heater in the panel, air compressor and the HVAC at the thermostat. Turn on the propane, plug in the generator and off you go. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
|
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 1:25 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:25:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. My panel is in the basement mounted on an outside wall. Installation should be a snap, with a hole already in the foundation. The wiring would be a different story. Duck soup. Even I could do it. But I won't. I'll let my SIL handle it. I think the box I am getting is very simple and is only $129. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 1:27 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:08:36 -0400, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. Installing the switch is not the expensive part. It is swinging over the 6 (or more) circuits you want to transfer. Your mileage will certainly vary on that one depending on where you want the generator and where the panel is. Also be aware generators may be putting out 115 volts and not 120 so voltage drop can be an issue. That feeder from the generator may have to be up sized if it is very long. I know it was a problem for my. The fridge in the kitchen was only seeing 106-108v on start up. I now have one of these for it. (a gift from Henk, my dutch friend) http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg It lets you adjust the voltage up or down. Greg, I think you are making this far more complicated than it really is. The unit John found has a 10 foot long whip with 10 awg wires for each circuit to be transferred. More than enough for typical household circuits. The idea is to mount the transfer box as close to the indoor power panel as possible. If that can't be done, then another method should be used. I had a voltage drop problem in Florida when I ran power down to a slab that I put in for the RV we had at the time. The slab was about 75 feet or so from the house panel. I used 6 awg wire but the voltage at the RV drooped to as low as 104 volts sometimes mainly because the whole service to the community drooped at times to under 115 volts. I got a Hughes buck/boost autotransformer that cured that problem. https://autoplicity.com/ImageLoader/12268501 |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On 10/5/2018 1:27 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:56:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 8:38 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:52 AM, John H. wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/5/2018 7:08 AM, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 8:52 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:16:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 7:41 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:27:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 4:49 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:42:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 12:51 PM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:03:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/4/2018 11:46 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/4/18 11:32 AM, wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:00:28 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: 2. She is not a psychiatrist. Not even a licensed psychologist in spite what she would have us believe from her testimony. And why would she have to be licensed? Is she working as a therapist? And even if she were (she is not), she could work as one without a license while seeking a license so long as she was working under the supervision of a qualified licensed therapist. A professor or a consultant can work as a psychologist without a license. Got it? So can a carpenter or an electrician. So what? Carpenters and electricians still need to work under someone's license and there are a number of states that are now requiring everyone handling wire to become licensed electricians (not sure about other trades). Kentucky is having a lot of trouble because of their law. https://www.ecmweb.com/training/license-survive If you are not a member you won't see the whole article but I can paste it here if you are interested. I'd never consider having an "unlicensed" electrician do any major work. I bet the guys who actually wired your house were not licensed, certainly not the one in Jupiter. The company had a license but individual wire men being licensed is far from universal. That is why the Kentucky law is so significant. In most states, anyone can call themselves an electrician, plumber, carpenter or whatever and it is up to the licensed employer to actually verify their skills. At the end of the day it is his license on the line. In Florida there is usually only one licensed person per enterprise and certainly only one listed on the corporate documents (responsible for compliance). In places like Chicago they did not have any licensing at all for decades (it may have changed). Qualifying electricians was entirely up to the IBEW. I was not referring to helpers or apprentices. I was talking about who is responsible for them as a licensed electrician. They have a "J" card in Massachusetts so there is usually going to be a licensed guy on the job. Down here the guy with the license might not even live in the state. That was even worse when you were in Jupiter I imagine. The licensing got more strict in the 94-2002 time frame as the repercussions of Andrew ground it's way through the bureaucracy. Years ago it wasn't much of a big deal to do complete home wiring but now-a-days there are so many code requirements and types of electrical equipment that you really have to be up to speed on the latest codes and gear. There are 2 sides of that. Codes do keep changing but methods and skills are getting easier, particularly in 1&2 family. There are a lot of new products that a trained monkey could install and wiring houses is becoming an assembly line were one crew just hangs boxes, another crew strings wire and someone else terminates them. Each guy does not have to have a lot of skill outside his specialty. I saw this in action in our 4 plex and it goes really fast. There wasn't a license to be seen with anyone there and only one of them spoke much English. He was a pretty smart guy but not very knowledgable about anything more than 1&2 family. When he found out I was an inspector he had a bunch of generator questions because nobody at his company had a clue ... including the "license". I am lucky. My son-in-law is a licensed MA electrician. Anything I need to know or get I just ask him. Some of the newer stuff is totally unknown to me. Next week he and I are going to install a couple of small transfer switches (one for me and one for my neighbor) that mount *outside* on the house. It has a main and four breakers (15 amp). You plug a portable generator (my Honda eu2000i) into the box, and transfer power to the heating system in the event of a long term power outage. I'll probably use another of the 15 amp circuits to run the refrigerator and a LED light circuit or two. That's about all the little generator can handle but it's enough to get by. Heat is the most important. If you use some switch discipline you might be able to use the main breaker interlock style. I can run my house fairly normally and I only have a 5.5KW but I also have 2 well pumps and a pool pump that eat a lot of that. We are doing it for the convenience of being able to plug the generator in outside when needed (which is rarely) and then put away when not needed. It's also to make it easy for my 80 year old neighbor who has the same generator but knows next to nothing about "switch discipline". Again, the main thing is to run the furnace in the winter. I agree this is not as attractive with a 120v only generator but mine does just plug in and runs a lot of my stuff. (No oven, no central air and no hot water). As long as you do what your daddy used to tell you and turn off a light when you are not using it, you do well on everything else with a fairly small generator. Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. I assume it is something like that one. I haven't seen it yet but he's planning on installing them this weekend or next. Same company (Reliance) but the version we are installing is 120 volt only (vs 240v) and only has 4 circuits and breakers instead of 6. Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. Our auto transfer switch and breaker box is inside, right under the house’s two breaker boxes. The genny will run the larger heat pump, whether we need heat or a/c. Understand. You have a permanently installed whole house generator. You've made that clear many times. What we are discussing is a convenient way to hook up a small, portable generator to feed a limited number of circuits, the most important being for heat in the winter. As I've mentioned before a whole house system is nice but we really haven't had enough long term outages to justify it right now. In five or ten years it would have more "running" time on it as a result of the weekly 10 minute battery charging exercise they are programed for than providing power to the house. If the day comes that I can't physically wheel or carry out a 43 lb generator and plug it into the outside transfer switch, I'll consider a whole house genset. To be honest I originally started looking into this to help out my neighbor. He's 81 years old, has limited funds but can still heft his little Honda around. Oh hell, they probably have a wheel kit for that damn thing somewhere! I have a little cart that I wheel mine around in. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
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Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:25:39 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:25:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Their main source would be a 3.5KW generator, so the bigger one may work better for them. I'm also going to buy a 3.5KW (http://tinyurl.com/y7dezaq3). I sure like the transfer switch idea. Didn't even know they made such a thing. I like the idea of having the transfer switch outside. As Greg pointed out though, it needs to be near the main power panel inside the house to avoid having to run long lengths of power lines for the switched circuits. The one you provided a link for apparently comes with 10 ft whips. My panel is in the basement mounted on an outside wall. Installation should be a snap, with a hole already in the foundation. The wiring would be a different story. It still may not be that bad. If you can mount the switch next to the panel, set a J box within reach of the existing branch circuit conductors and make the splices to the pigtails there, you are just running a wire out to the generator and the feeder from the panel bus breaker that runs those circuits on PoCo power. My guess 4 hours sparky time and that is taking his time. |
Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
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Ford's Ex-boyfriend Opens Up
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:15:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/5/2018 1:27 PM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:08:36 -0400, John H. wrote: On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:08:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been doing it for years. The outside transfer switch just makes it more convenient. Actually, my point was that there are many devices available today that weren't around years ago. I had never heard of an outside transfer switch like the one we are installing. My son-in-law, being current on this stuff suggested it. You're talking about something like this, right? http://tinyurl.com/yaecwjem I wonder how much an electrician would charge to install one. Might be a nice Christmas present for the kids. Installing the switch is not the expensive part. It is swinging over the 6 (or more) circuits you want to transfer. Your mileage will certainly vary on that one depending on where you want the generator and where the panel is. Also be aware generators may be putting out 115 volts and not 120 so voltage drop can be an issue. That feeder from the generator may have to be up sized if it is very long. I know it was a problem for my. The fridge in the kitchen was only seeing 106-108v on start up. I now have one of these for it. (a gift from Henk, my dutch friend) http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg It lets you adjust the voltage up or down. Greg, I think you are making this far more complicated than it really is. The unit John found has a 10 foot long whip with 10 awg wires for each circuit to be transferred. More than enough for typical household circuits. The idea is to mount the transfer box as close to the indoor power panel as possible. If that can't be done, then another method should be used. I had a voltage drop problem in Florida when I ran power down to a slab that I put in for the RV we had at the time. The slab was about 75 feet or so from the house panel. I used 6 awg wire but the voltage at the RV drooped to as low as 104 volts sometimes mainly because the whole service to the community drooped at times to under 115 volts. I got a Hughes buck/boost autotransformer that cured that problem. https://autoplicity.com/ImageLoader/12268501 How is my variac "too complicated" It is essentially what your buck boost transformer does, it was free and it is adjustable. The only thing I had a problem with was the fridge in the kitchen and that is because it is a long way from the generator. (Using existing house wiring) |
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