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Fight bullets with rocks?
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Fight bullets with rocks?
On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-5, The Last Boater on USENET wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC Hello, buddy! |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-5, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC Hello, buddy! How's it going! Been years since I looked around in here. Looks like everybody left except for, well, you know.... -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC |
Fight bullets with rocks?
8:29 AMThe Last Boater on USENET On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-5, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim - show quoted text - How's it going! Been years since I looked around in here. Looks like everybody left except for, well, you know.... - show quoted text - ..... Uh huh. I saw your recent FB post where this place was mentioned and I’d say you were dead in in your assessment. Amazing what one person can do over time when you let them |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:46:25 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. So train the teacher. I'll bet a whole lot would show up three days early to be shown how to safely handle a handgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want 180 rocks laying on the floor of the classroom as I tried to walk around helping kids solve a math problem. Would the janitors be required to pick them all up every day before sweeping the floors? |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On 24 Mar 2018 16:57:29 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. Don’t forget that movie theatre ushers, pastors, priests, rabbis, shopping center guards, city buses, supermarkets, everything...needs armed guards everywhere...that’s what the NRA wants, right? Another stupid anti-NRA comment. Almost as stupid as most of your anti-Trump comments. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Saturday, 24 March 2018 13:46:33 UTC-3, wrote:
snip... If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. snip... Bingo! can you imagine our own 'Mr Magoo' (The John) spraying bullets all over a classroom or hallway? |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:04:30 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:
On Saturday, 24 March 2018 13:46:33 UTC-3, wrote: snip... If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. snip... Bingo! can you imagine our own 'Mr Magoo' (The John) spraying bullets all over a classroom or hallway? No. I've had some training, donnee. Have you? |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. You better be sure all of the kids are in a zone behind that teacher. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:09:35 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:46:25 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. So train the teacher. I'll bet a whole lot would show up three days early to be shown how to safely handle a handgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want 180 rocks laying on the floor of the classroom as I tried to walk around helping kids solve a math problem. Would the janitors be required to pick them all up every day before sweeping the floors? Every school desk I ever sat at had a compartment in it somewhere. Put one of these there. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Active%20sh...onse%20kit.jpg |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:04:30 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote: On Saturday, 24 March 2018 13:46:33 UTC-3, wrote: snip... If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. snip... Bingo! can you imagine our own 'Mr Magoo' (The John) spraying bullets all over a classroom or hallway? === I think John would be taking well aimed shots just like most of us. The guys that I shoot with regularly beat FBI teams and local SWAT teams in statewide competition. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:35:58 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:09:35 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:46:25 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. So train the teacher. I'll bet a whole lot would show up three days early to be shown how to safely handle a handgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want 180 rocks laying on the floor of the classroom as I tried to walk around helping kids solve a math problem. Would the janitors be required to pick them all up every day before sweeping the floors? Every school desk I ever sat at had a compartment in it somewhere. Put one of these there. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Active%20sh...onse%20kit.jpg New ones don't, at least in middle and high schools. Kids travel from one room to next and take backpacks. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:46:25 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:58:33 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ Well, like the anti-gun crowd says, "What happens the first time a student kills another student with a rock to the head?" And, I can just imagine a gun going off and 30 kids running for the 5-gallon bucket of rocks. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much rather the teacher reach for a pistol. If the teacher is not well trained, they have as good a chance of hitting a student. If I was doing it there would be a half dozen rocks under each desk but I agree that would require discipline in the schools and we have very little of that. Do you advocate training in rock throwing, as well? Rocks can kill. Ask Goliath. What? Wait. Nevermind, you can't...... -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On 3/25/18 8:40 AM, The Last Boater on USENET wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene I don't see where continual buying into the NRA bull**** that the only way to fight violence is with more guns makes any sense. What we have to do is find ways to de-escalate the violence. The NRA exists to help its main contributors - the gun industry - sell more guns. The Second Amendment is obsolete, but in this country there is no reasonable, rational way to change it within any acceptable period of time. So the best way to move forward is through legislation, by removing from political office politicians who have an A or B or C NRA ratings, and replacing them with new politicians who are not beholden to the NRA and have no better than a D rating if any rating at all. We also have to make magazines that hold more than 10 rounds illegal, with serious $$$ penalties for having any, and the same with firearms whose primary purpose is not hunting or target shooting or part of an historical colletion. I don't think prison is the answer for firearm possession for guns not used in crimes. We already have too many prisons and too many people in them, and I would not be surprised to learn the private prison industry also contributes to the NRA. I have a couple of firearms that should be made illegal, and I wouldn't object to legislation that made them that way. I'd be more than happy to have only my .22LR target pistol and rifle and a shotgun. My hunting buddies, and I have a few of them, don't hunt with semi-auto or assault-style rifles...they use bolt-action rifles and shotguns. The NRA should be solely concerned with providing training to help ensure firearms safety, and with helping to preserve game species and hunting areas. Pimping for the manufacturers of firearms shouldn't be allowed. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 08:40:41 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC I find it hard to believe that many schools do not lock all but one observed door once the bell rings. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:06:06 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/25/18 8:40 AM, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene I don't see where continual buying into the NRA bull**** that the only way to fight violence is with more guns makes any sense. What we have to do is find ways to de-escalate the violence. The NRA exists to help its main contributors - the gun industry - sell more guns. The Second Amendment is obsolete, but in this country there is no reasonable, rational way to change it within any acceptable period of time. So the best way to move forward is through legislation, by removing from political office politicians who have an A or B or C NRA ratings, and replacing them with new politicians who are not beholden to the NRA and have no better than a D rating if any rating at all. We also have to make magazines that hold more than 10 rounds illegal, with serious $$$ penalties for having any, and the same with firearms whose primary purpose is not hunting or target shooting or part of an historical colletion. I don't think prison is the answer for firearm possession for guns not used in crimes. We already have too many prisons and too many people in them, and I would not be surprised to learn the private prison industry also contributes to the NRA. I have a couple of firearms that should be made illegal, and I wouldn't object to legislation that made them that way. I'd be more than happy to have only my .22LR target pistol and rifle and a shotgun. My hunting buddies, and I have a few of them, don't hunt with semi-auto or assault-style rifles...they use bolt-action rifles and shotguns. The NRA should be solely concerned with providing training to help ensure firearms safety, and with helping to preserve game species and hunting areas. Pimping for the manufacturers of firearms shouldn't be allowed. Does accepting advertisements from an arms manufacturer make one a pimp? Is the Washington Post 'pimping' for all the companies that advertise in the newspaper? Yeah, the "American Rifleman" is a magazine mostly about guns and also about attacks on the rights granted under the 2d Amendment. No where in the magazine is any 'urging' for members to break the law. You've called the NRA a 'terrorist' organization, with not one specific to back up your statement. Your bias is political, why not accept that?" |
Fight bullets with rocks?
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:06:06 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 3/25/18 8:40 AM, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene I don't see where continual buying into the NRA bull**** that the only way to fight violence is with more guns makes any sense. What we have to do is find ways to de-escalate the violence. The NRA exists to help its main contributors - the gun industry - sell more guns. The Second Amendment is obsolete, but in this country there is no reasonable, rational way to change it within any acceptable period of time. So the best way to move forward is through legislation, by removing from political office politicians who have an A or B or C NRA ratings, and replacing them with new politicians who are not beholden to the NRA and have no better than a D rating if any rating at all. We also have to make magazines that hold more than 10 rounds illegal, with serious $$$ penalties for having any, and the same with firearms whose primary purpose is not hunting or target shooting or part of an historical colletion. I don't think prison is the answer for firearm possession for guns not used in crimes. We already have too many prisons and too many people in them, and I would not be surprised to learn the private prison industry also contributes to the NRA. I have a couple of firearms that should be made illegal, and I wouldn't object to legislation that made them that way. I'd be more than happy to have only my .22LR target pistol and rifle and a shotgun. My hunting buddies, and I have a few of them, don't hunt with semi-auto or assault-style rifles...they use bolt-action rifles and shotguns. The NRA should be solely concerned with providing training to help ensure firearms safety, and with helping to preserve game species and hunting areas. Pimping for the manufacturers of firearms shouldn't be allowed. Spoken by a guy who does see the need for an assault type rifle and high cap magazines. You sought every loophole you could find in an otherwise pretty strict state law to acquire them. The hypocrisy drips from every word you write. |
Fight bullets with rocks?
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:06:06 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/25/18 8:40 AM, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:07:02 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:42:53 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:06:55 -0400, The Last Boater on USENET wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:31:49 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: What could possibly go wrong, right? https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...e-these-rocks/ It is not the worst idea in the world. If 30 people were throwing baseball sized rocks at the shooter, it would certainly disrupt his concentration and if 4 or 5 of them charged him in the confusion and started bashing his head in with the rocks it would spoil his day. This is certainly the last ditch effort to save yourself but it is a credible effort if the victims had the violence of action to actually do it. Combine that with a decent defensive action plan and the bad guy is going to lose that fight. My problem with "ALICE" is "Counter" should be the last choice but is screws up the acronym. In that TV spot they did on the school that really has a defensive plan, the easiest and perhaps most effective part is every classroom has a defensive zone marked in the floor where you can't be seen or hit from the hall. If your prime defenders were along that wall near the door. the shooter doesn't see them until they see him and they have surprise on their side. Better be wearing heavy gloves if you are trying a "disarm" tho. That barrel will be smoking. Of course it is best if the door is locked and the shooter is out in the hall (another part of that school's plan). Throwing rocks. No different than "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and up until now that has been used to illustrate a really bad idea. Now, we embrace it! If nothing else, when they should be seeking cover, they will be foolishly emboldened to stand their ground, making themselves better targets. Gotta go with Tim.... -Gene If you get to pick the fight and the weapons, I agree but we are talking about a situation where you have what is available. In a fair fight, a handgun is no match for an AK or an AR either but even the most radical element does not suggest we arm teachers with an AR. The object here is to use the tactics that allow you to survive an unfair fight. Throwing rocks and attacking is far better than just standing there waiting for your turn to be shot. Hiding in your 'no see' zones with the teacher holding a handgun is a better idea. The mad scramble for the rocks may cause the shooter to laugh himself to death. And.... hardening the schools is a step in the right direction, too. FWIW, this is a global problem and isn't (or shouldn't be) specifically about "guns." It is about soft targets and angry/crazy people. Globally, school children have been attacked with everything from axes to zhanmadaos, because they are a soft target with an advertised lack of defenses. If we aren't going to get serious about mental health, let's get serious about protection. -Gene I don't see where continual buying into the NRA bull**** that the only way to fight violence is with more guns makes any sense. What we have to do is find ways to de-escalate the violence. The NRA exists to help its main contributors - the gun industry - sell more guns. The Second Amendment is obsolete, but in this country there is no reasonable, rational way to change it within any acceptable period of time. So the best way to move forward is through legislation, by removing from political office politicians who have an A or B or C NRA ratings, and replacing them with new politicians who are not beholden to the NRA and have no better than a D rating if any rating at all. We also have to make magazines that hold more than 10 rounds illegal, with serious $$$ penalties for having any, and the same with firearms whose primary purpose is not hunting or target shooting or part of an historical colletion. I don't think prison is the answer for firearm possession for guns not used in crimes. We already have too many prisons and too many people in them, and I would not be surprised to learn the private prison industry also contributes to the NRA. I have a couple of firearms that should be made illegal, and I wouldn't object to legislation that made them that way. I'd be more than happy to have only my .22LR target pistol and rifle and a shotgun. My hunting buddies, and I have a few of them, don't hunt with semi-auto or assault-style rifles...they use bolt-action rifles and shotguns. The NRA should be solely concerned with providing training to help ensure firearms safety, and with helping to preserve game species and hunting areas. Pimping for the manufacturers of firearms shouldn't be allowed. Spoken by a guy who does see the need for an assault type rifle and high cap magazines. You sought every loophole you could find in an otherwise pretty strict state law to acquire them. The hypocrisy drips from every word you write. And why is the 2nd amendment obsolete. Maybe more relevant today than 100 years ago. Which country bragged that they were the first to have complete gun control? And what happened? |
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