pump out or no pumpout head
 

Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

I take it your looking at portable toilets. I would go without the pump
out, and just use the public head to discharge the waste. Saving the pump
out fee. The Person you need to talk to is Peggy at rec.boats.cruising.
She is the guru authority for marine plumbing.

Jack
"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

David Ditch wrote:
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

That's a LOT of people on a 23' boat! I don't think you have any choice
but to go with a self-contained unit because a toilet and separate
remote holding tank will eat up too much space that's needed for
storage. The only question is, what size portapotty.

Portapotties come in two sizes--2-3 gallon models, and 5-6 gallon
models--and are also available as portable (take the tank off the boat
and and empty it down a toilet--which many marinas won't allow because
of the potential for a mess in their bathrooms) or permanently installed
fitted for pumpout. Unless you're gorilla, only the smaller size is
practical to carry off the boat...'cuz waste weighs 8.333
lbs/gal...making the weight of a full 5-6 gallon tank about 50 pounds.
But I don't think the smaller size will be adequate for your family's
needs. That makes a permanently installed 5-6 gal model the only
practical choice. However, since the larger models are taller than the
small ones, a 5-6 gal model may not fit in the only available location
for it in a 23' cuddy.

But I dunno how you can comfortably--and safely--carry 5 people and all
the stuff needed for children that small in a 23' cuddy either. Have you
really thought about all you'll need and where you'll put it on the
boats you're looking at? Every boat I've ever considered, the first
thing I do is mentally try to put away everything I know I'll need and
want aboard...I suggest you do the same.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

"David Ditch" wrote in message
...

I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?

There are a variety of different head arrangements, some of which may be
illegal in your boating area.

A direct discharge system uses a pump to directly empty the toilet bowl
overboard through a thru-hull fitting in the bottom of the boat. Such a
system is legal if you are a few miles out in the ocean but is NOT legal in
any bay or inland waterway.

A variation of that system is to treat the waste and then dump it overboard.
A "Lectra-san" is a brand name of such a system. Dumping the treated waste
is acceptable in some bays and inland tribrutaries, but is still illegal in
many areas.

The most common head arrangment for use in inland waters is the holding
tank. The same toilet as the direct discharge is usually used, but the
waste is pumped into a holding tank instead of overboard. Many boats that
are used in both inland and off shore will often have a "Y Valve" so they
can choose between pumping overboard or into the tank. Beware, though, as
many inland areas consider the Y-valve to be illegal.

A variation of the holding tank approach is a "porta-pottie". This uses a
very simple toilet that simply dumps the waste into a self contained holding
tank directly under the seat. You can usually separate the tank portion
from the seat portion and carry it to any restroom to empty.

A variation of the porta-pottie is to include a pump-out fitting so that the
tank can be emptied while it is still in place. Obviously, if you have the
pump-out fitting then this fitting would have to be removed before you could
manually carry the tank off to be emptied.

On any boat that has a holding tank with pump out fitting the proceedure to
empty it is essentially the same. The pump out fitting is a deck plate that
looks just like the filler plates for your water or gas. DON'T mix them up!
To empty the tank, you drive the boat over to the pumpout station, hold the
hose into the open fitting, start the pump.

If the pump out station is well maintained this is an easy operation.
Sometimes finding a pump out station that works at all is difficult, and
when you do find one it isn't in the best of condition. In some areas the
pump out stations are free and open to the public (these are generally the
poorly maintained or non working ones!). In other areas you have to pay to
use the dump station. $15 is a fairly common fee to use a private dump
station, although many marinas offer it free to their tenants.


If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?

My first cruiser was a 25 foot Stephens. I used a porta-pottie for my
family of four (two adults, two small children). A porta-pottie with a 3
gallon tank was enough for one day. For two days, maybe three a 6 gallon
tank was necessary. If my kids had been bigger I suspect that the 6 gallons
would not have been enough.

On the plus side, the tank was so easy to deal with. I kept the boat in a
slip at a marina, so when I returned I just unhooked the tank, walked down
the dock to the restroom and dumped it. The time and hassle was NOTHING
compared to cruising over to the dump station. It also always worked! Some
marinas don't like people dumping porta-potties into their restroom, so you
could run into issues there. If the marina also has a RV park, then they
might have a RV dump station that you can carry it down to and dump it
there.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend the 6
gallon tank. If you are going to rely on just the pump out , then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

Rod

pump out or no pumpout head
 

All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank! :)

Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size. There's no place to put a toilet AND
a tank...and besides, pumping a toilet is more of a challenge than kids
the age of his are likely to be able to meet. And, because they don't
use any real flush water, the 5-6 portapotty holds about as many flushes
as a 12-15 gallon holding tank connected to a manual marine toilet. I've
spent a few weekends aboard boats equipped with 'em...that's enough for
4 adults for a full weekend including two nights aboard...so it should
be enough to see his family through a full Sat/Sun weekend.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

If you boat out of Sandy Point State Park in Annapolis or just visit, the
pumpout station is free. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is
taken out of service during the "off season" (now).

The next step up from a 23' cuddie is a cabin cruiser of 24' or more. These
typically have a china head and holding tank of 15 gallons or more. Pumpout
is relatively painless, tie up at the pump, remove the deck fitting cover,
insert the hose, and turn on the pump. No fuss, no muss!

I agree with the others, a 23' cuddie seems a little small for two adults
and three children. Remember that they will grow larger over time.

Ron


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:06 -0500, "Ronald A. Widman"
wrote:
I agree with the others, a 23' cuddie seems a little small for two adults
and three children. Remember that they will grow larger over time.
=========================================

It should be OK for day trips. I've had 3 adults and 2 kids on my 24
ft cuddy for an an afternoon with no problem. I know folks who have
cruised 2 adults and 2 kids on a 21 ft and they managed. A lot
depends on expectations. For overnighting you will need full cockpit
canvas and ye olde oaken bucket.

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.

One question, is do all marinas have a place to pump out?
Where are they usually located? near the fuel point?
I don't mind spending money for convenience, after all boating is not a low
$$$ hobbie now is it?
If they charge for it, how much is it?

David


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

My marina charges CAN $20 for transient pumpouts.

I don't have a lot of experience but I've always seen the pumpout at or near
the gas dock.

"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along
the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.

One question, is do all marinas have a place to pump out?
Where are they usually located? near the fuel point?
I don't mind spending money for convenience, after all boating is not a
low
$$$ hobbie now is it?
If they charge for it, how much is it?

David


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

I have about the same size boat with pump out head and it works just fine.
My marina has no fee for slipholder pump outs, so we just made a habbit of
getting the pump out at the same time we fuel up.
In a 23' boat, the configuration is likely to be a modified port-a-pottie,
that is clamped in an enclosed space in the cuddy, usually with a privacy
curtain. The pump out and vent hoses are run up to the starborad side rail,
while the gas fill is on the port side. If no pump out is available, one
could disconnect the hoses and hand dump the pottie, but this has never been
needed in my case.
(The boat is a Searay 22' weekender)

pump out or no pumpout head
 

David Ditch wrote:
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David


Don't know about pump-out heads. I have a 21ft cuddie, Two kids now 10
and 7 + one wife :-)

Ours just has a porta pottie and it works out just fine. I just take the
holding tank/base home and flush it "if" it gets used. We mainly just go
out and day boat, and occasionaly overnight but the boat is a tad small
for that. So I guess it could depend on how you plan on using it on what
type of system you really want. But consider that a porta-pottie is one
less thing to maintain that is built into the boat.

We really don't use it all that ofter making sure the kids go before we
head out. I think it got use twice this summer.

Good luck on your decision.

Capt Jack R..

pump out or no pumpout head
 

It should be OK for day trips. I've had 3 adults and 2 kids on my 24
ft cuddy for an an afternoon with no problem. I know folks who have
cruised 2 adults and 2 kids on a 21 ft and they managed. A lot
depends on expectations. For overnighting you will need full cockpit
canvas and ye olde oaken bucket.

Unfortunately, ye olde oaken bucket (and all ye other olde containers)
chucked over the side isn't legal inside the "3 mile limit." However,
"direct deposit" from the lee rail is.

I didn't write the laws, I'm only the messenger.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Paul wrote:

My marina charges CAN $20 for transient pumpouts.

I don't have a lot of experience but I've always seen the pumpout at or near
the gas dock.


In Friday Harbor, WA, the pump out was (is?) located right next to the
floating seafood shop, smack in the middle of the marina. Appetizing! :)

IIRC, it was something like a buck or two in quarters to pump out.

--
~/Garth

pump out or no pumpout head
 

David Ditch wrote:
Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.

That's all? :))

I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.

I think you'd better spend some time browsing the guides to the
Bay...'cuz once you get out of Annapolis Harbor, it's quite a distance
to the next stop. And the going won't be much fun in a boat that small
if there's any chop...which there often is on the Bay.

One question, is do all marinas have a place to pump out?

Most do, but not all. And they're not always open at the ones that do.


Where are they usually located? near the fuel point?

Some are, some aren't.

I don't mind spending money for convenience, after all boating is not a low
$$$ hobbie now is it?
If they charge for it, how much is it?

I think we covered that already. Some are free, most charge only $5...a
few are higher.

If I were you, I'd be looking for 25-27' cruiser. If you rent a 22-23'
cuddy for a day, I think you'll understand why.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Jim Irvine wrote:

If no pump out is available, one
could disconnect the hoses and hand dump the pottie, but this has never been
needed in my case.

I think you'd find that harder to do than you think. The pumpout hose
comes out of the tank at the bottom, so you can't disconnect it from the
tank without dumping it...you'd have to disconnect the hose from the
deck pumpout fitting...and then be VERY careful to keep it above the top
of the tank while you carry it off the boat to dump it.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

From your description, I'd say you're really using the head for emergencies,
probably not most of the time you're out. In that case, pretty much any
porta-potti ought to do fine. My advice would be to either skip the
"cuddy-cabin" and either go to a real cruiser, or an open boat. The cuddy
is likely to become an overgrown glovebox.

To answer your questions, I think most marinas have a pumpout, but not all.
There's not a standard place where they're located, and it's not generally
expensive. I think in my area (southern Maryland) it's about $5 at private
marinas, and free at the state pumpout. What's involved is the pumpout is a
glorified wet-vac that hooks up to a port on the outside of a
pumpout-equipped boat, and sucks the waste out.

Good luck.

"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along
the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.

One question, is do all marinas have a place to pump out?
Where are they usually located? near the fuel point?
I don't mind spending money for convenience, after all boating is not a
low
$$$ hobbie now is it?
If they charge for it, how much is it?

David


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

We really don't use it all that ofter making sure the kids go before we
head out. I think it got use twice this summer.


But you're on an inland fresh water lake, Jack...where it's a lot easier
to just "take a swim" when necessary than it is on the Chesapeake Bay.
The sea nettles (a type of jellyfish) can make that a very interesting
experience.

Which reminds me of a story that's funny in the telling, but prob'ly not
to the person it happened to: a friend's wife is exceptionally
modest...she'd go down the swim ladder as an alternative to using the
head...but wouldn't drop her drawers--which on this night were
voluminous. They billowed out around her while she was waist deep in the
water...naturally clung to her as she came up. On this particular night,
she'd managed to trap a sea nettle under 'em. As her husband put it,
"modesty went out the window while she invented break dancing in the
cockpit as I ran below to get the meat tenderizer."

Btw...how IS life on Lanier these days?

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:03:03 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:
Unfortunately, ye olde oaken bucket (and all ye other olde containers)
chucked over the side isn't legal inside the "3 mile limit." However,
"direct deposit" from the lee rail is.

================================================== ====

Peggie, you have once again highlighted the difference between theory
and actual practice. :-)

Please note that I made no mention of where the bucket should be
emptied, and it could always go into the portapot in the morning. (Or
that could be your cover story)

Meanwhile mom and dad could spend the night undisturbed in the cuddy
cabin while the kiddies are sacked out in the cockpit under the
camper canvas.

That's the way it was done when I was a kid.

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Thats correct, I'd expect the porta pottie would be used for emergencies.
I'd like to be doing water sports so I don't want a cruiser.

David

"DaveH" wrote in message
...
From your description, I'd say you're really using the head for
emergencies,
probably not most of the time you're out. In that case, pretty much any
porta-potti ought to do fine. My advice would be to either skip the
"cuddy-cabin" and either go to a real cruiser, or an open boat. The cuddy
is likely to become an overgrown glovebox.

To answer your questions, I think most marinas have a pumpout, but not
all.
There's not a standard place where they're located, and it's not generally
expensive. I think in my area (southern Maryland) it's about $5 at
private
marinas, and free at the state pumpout. What's involved is the pumpout is
a
glorified wet-vac that hooks up to a port on the outside of a
pumpout-equipped boat, and sucks the waste out.

Good luck.

"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or
not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all
day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along
the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.

One question, is do all marinas have a place to pump out?
Where are they usually located? near the fuel point?
I don't mind spending money for convenience, after all boating is not a
low
$$$ hobbie now is it?
If they charge for it, how much is it?

David


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Jim Irvine wrote:

If no pump out is available, one
could disconnect the hoses and hand dump the pottie, but this has never
been
needed in my case.

I think you'd find that harder to do than you think. The pumpout hose
comes out of the tank at the bottom, so you can't disconnect it from the
tank without dumping it...you'd have to disconnect the hose from the
deck pumpout fitting...and then be VERY careful to keep it above the top
of the tank while you carry it off the boat to dump it.


On my Sealand unit, the pumpout connection fitting is on the top of the
tank,
and there is an internal tube from there going to the bottom. You can
disconnect
the hoses, and put on the supplied cap without spilling anything.

BB


Yes, mine is configured the same way and it is relatively simple to hand
dump if necessary.
-Jim

pump out or no pumpout head
 

That's good to know, 'cuz that's a somewhat recent change. Thanks for
the heads up. (Obviously, I need to update my catalogs). However, not
all of 'em are designed that way.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

David Ditch wrote:
I'd like to be doing water sports so I don't want a cruiser.

With 3 small children aboard??? Mom will be driving the boat...you'll be
in the water...who'll be watching them? It's too hot in the summer to
just stuff 'em all into the cuddy, especially wearing life jackets.

The water is a very dangerous place for small children unless at least
one parent has a close eye on 'em every second...'cuz toddlers are the
only creatures on earth that can move faster than the speed of
light--one second they're where you put 'em, the next they're out of
sight. Have you really thought this through? More and more, I'm
convinced you ought to rent a boat for a day to see what it's like
before buying anything. And take a CG Aux or US Power Squadron boating
safety course before you take your brood out on the Bay!

Just my $.02 worth...and btw...A small cruiser (24-26') is just as
capable of pulling a skier or a tube as a cuddy.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:06 +0000, Ronald A. Widman wrote:

If you boat out of Sandy Point State Park in Annapolis or just visit, the
pumpout station is free. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is
taken out of service during the "off season" (now).

The next step up from a 23' cuddie is a cabin cruiser of 24' or more. These
typically have a china head and holding tank of 15 gallons or more. Pumpout
is relatively painless, tie up at the pump, remove the deck fitting cover,
insert the hose, and turn on the pump. No fuss, no muss!

I agree with the others, a 23' cuddie seems a little small for two adults
and three children. Remember that they will grow larger over time.


Geez, the guys talking about daytrips and such. We did just fine with 2
adults and 2 teenage kids (one was me!) in a 14 ft runabout.

Also, for the application he's talking about ("emergencies" or convenience
for an afternoon's outing) a dump-onshore portapottie might be less hassle
than a pumpout. He's talking about 2-3 flushes, maybe. No need for the
40-gal tank someone recommended. ;)

My vote would be for the 23ft (or smaller) cuddy with a portapottie.
Simple, no plumbing to go wrong, no pumpout stations to find...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

pump out or no pumpout head
 

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

The fact that the tank can hold 6 gallons doesn't mean that you have to wait
untill it is full before you empty it!

And I routinely grab a pair of 6 gallon gas cans and carry them down the
dock. Gas weighs less than water/sewage but it is still manageable. If
nothing else, you go get the dock cart to wheel it down the dock.



If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank! :)

The size of the tank has nothing to do with where the toilet needs to be
located. Put the toilet in the cuddy and pump the sewage to a tank in the
engine compartment.

I agree, however, that it is unlikely a 23 foot boat will find room for such
a tank. That doesn't change my recommendation, however. What I suspect it
will do is favor the removable tank for his application.


Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

The San Francisco Bay also has pumpouts that were paid for with the
Federal Grant money. None of the pumouts that I am aware of on the Bay
charge anything, I suspect because it would cost them more to manage the
collection of the fee than it would be worth. These are also the pumpouts
that are typically in poor or non working condition. The exceptions are the
units that are in awkward or hard to get to spots, deep in a marina.



IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size.

I agree that a 5-6 gallon portapotty is the best option. The choice of
permanently installed or carry the tank to dump it is in question. Perhaps
a deciding factor is if this boat ever gets put on a trailer and taken home
or to some other location. If your only option is to pump the tank out, you
MUST empty the tank before you load the boat on the trailer to go home.
That can be a real hassle on a Sunday evening when you want to hurry up and
leave. It can be impossible if you have visited a local lake that has no
pumpout.

Rod

pump out or no pumpout head
 

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.


6' Beam on a 23' cuddy? Not if it was built in recent history. Any modern
23' cuddy will have a minimum beam of 8', and more likely 8'6".

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Peggie Hall wrote:

We really don't use it all that ofter making sure the kids go before we
head out. I think it got use twice this summer.


But you're on an inland fresh water lake, Jack...where it's a lot easier
to just "take a swim" when necessary than it is on the Chesapeake Bay.
The sea nettles (a type of jellyfish) can make that a very interesting
experience.

Which reminds me of a story that's funny in the telling, but prob'ly not
to the person it happened to: a friend's wife is exceptionally
modest...she'd go down the swim ladder as an alternative to using the
head...but wouldn't drop her drawers--which on this night were
voluminous. They billowed out around her while she was waist deep in the
water...naturally clung to her as she came up. On this particular night,
she'd managed to trap a sea nettle under 'em. As her husband put it, "modesty went out the window while she invented break dancing in the
cockpit as I ran below to get the meat tenderizer."

Btw...how IS life on Lanier these days?

Peggie


Lanier was great this summer, The water is still very high. The highest
I have seen this late in the year since I moved here. Last Saturday I
made a run up the Chatt-arm of the lake and enjoyed the fall colors with
the family. Will most likely get out at least one day this weekend as it
is suppose to be around 75+ all weekend. :-)

The only draw back was that a lot of the swimming beaches were under
water just about all year. So the kids were limited for the most part
with just swimming around the boat on the hook. And not going ashore much.

You take care, and drop me a line if you decide to visit your former
home waters again

Capt Jack R..

pump out or no pumpout head
 

8'6" beam



"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank! :)

Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size. There's no place to put a toilet AND
a tank...and besides, pumping a toilet is more of a challenge than kids
the age of his are likely to be able to meet. And, because they don't
use any real flush water, the 5-6 portapotty holds about as many flushes
as a 12-15 gallon holding tank connected to a manual marine toilet. I've
spent a few weekends aboard boats equipped with 'em...that's enough for
4 adults for a full weekend including two nights aboard...so it should
be enough to see his family through a full Sat/Sun weekend.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

MD requires a spotter over 12, so I'll only be in the water skiing if my
friends are with me.
Thanks for the advice.

David

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
David Ditch wrote:
I'd like to be doing water sports so I don't want a cruiser.

With 3 small children aboard??? Mom will be driving the boat...you'll be
in the water...who'll be watching them? It's too hot in the summer to
just stuff 'em all into the cuddy, especially wearing life jackets.

The water is a very dangerous place for small children unless at least
one parent has a close eye on 'em every second...'cuz toddlers are the
only creatures on earth that can move faster than the speed of
light--one second they're where you put 'em, the next they're out of
sight. Have you really thought this through? More and more, I'm
convinced you ought to rent a boat for a day to see what it's like
before buying anything. And take a CG Aux or US Power Squadron boating
safety course before you take your brood out on the Bay!

Just my $.02 worth...and btw...A small cruiser (24-26') is just as
capable of pulling a skier or a tube as a cuddy.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

pump out or no pumpout head
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:43:52 +0000, David Ditch wrote:

Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.


I'm confused about all the replies that say a 23ft cuddy is too small for
this application. Hell, I see families of 5 or more out for the afternoon
in 18-ft runabouts all the time. I also think a small cuddy for pottie and
changing into/out of swimsuits would be handy.

As long as you're not doing overnights, a 20-23 ft cuddy would be fine. A
bigger boat means: More initial cost, more moorage costs (even the temp
ones at restaurants, etc), more operating costs (read: FUEL! See the
thread on "Energy Independance"), and if you're towing it, bigger tow
vehicle (again, read more fuel consumption!) and so on.

Same for the portable vs pumpout: The portable is simpler and cheaper.
WHEN the head starts to smell, if it's a portapottie you can just chuck
it, but a built-in has hoses going in inaccessable places, thru-hulls...

I say, keep it simple!

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12
Previously:
"Valkyrie" Campion 18
"Starsend" Cal 25
"Determination" Venture 22

pump out or no pumpout head
 

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:43:52 +0000, David Ditch wrote:


Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.



I'm confused about all the replies that say a 23ft cuddy is too small for
this application. Hell, I see families of 5 or more out for the afternoon
in 18-ft runabouts all the time. I also think a small cuddy for pottie and
changing into/out of swimsuits would be handy.

As long as you're not doing overnights, a 20-23 ft cuddy would be fine. A
bigger boat means: More initial cost, more moorage costs (even the temp
ones at restaurants, etc), more operating costs (read: FUEL! See the
thread on "Energy Independance"), and if you're towing it, bigger tow
vehicle (again, read more fuel consumption!) and so on.

Same for the portable vs pumpout: The portable is simpler and cheaper.
WHEN the head starts to smell, if it's a portapottie you can just chuck
it, but a built-in has hoses going in inaccessable places, thru-hulls...

I say, keep it simple!

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12
Previously:
"Valkyrie" Campion 18
"Starsend" Cal 25
"Determination" Venture 22


It works for my family of four on day trips. (since 1996) The 21ft
Crownline we have has a small v8 (305) which is does the job, And for
day trips is perfect as noted above w/porta pottie.

I think It just depends on his application. If he is looking at doing
more than day tripping he might want somthing else. But I like the fuel
consumption of the 305 as compaired to larger engines. I don't want to
maintain a enclosed head system etc.

From his discription I know my choice. He will have to make up his own.
But I am with you on this one Lloyd

Capt Jack R..

pump out or no pumpout head
 

a deciding factor is if this boat ever gets put on a trailer and taken
home
or to some other location. If your only option is to pump the tank out,
you
MUST empty the tank before you load the boat on the trailer to go home.
That can be a real hassle on a Sunday evening when you want to hurry up
and
leave. It can be impossible if you have visited a local lake that has no
pumpout.

Rod

You don't have to pump out every time you boat (although that's the best
practice). I bought a macerator pump and some fittings and created my own
pumpout which I can use at home. I plan to tie into the septic system but
for now I pump into a plastic tank and empty it into a toilet. Cost - about
$120.00. My holding tank (in a 25' cruiser) holds 15 gallons.
Ron