A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:20:12 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


Most colleges today are nothing more than diploma mills.



Funny stuff...you have been sleeping with Fretwell.

Do we really need to talk about the number of people working at jobs a
high school dropout can do, carrying a 5 figure college debt?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:15:33 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted.


You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country.



I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during
those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you
were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really
wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have
become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera.

How did I "enable" the killing of Asians when I was sitting in the
North atlantic on a Coast Guard cutter? Were the Vietcong cruising
around there in diesel subs or were they cleverly disguised as the
airliners we tracked flying overhead?


Harry did more for the military industrial group than all of us together.
He worked on electing warmongering politicians. We were either drafted or
joined the military. Some joined to serve their country, others joined as
they knew they were going to,be drafted and wanted a choice where to serve.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S


LBJ signed a draft notice that was sent to the wrong address in the fall of
1964 for me. So he was cranking up, even if he was flapping his lips.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex.
I don’t believe it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.


And if you were in the navy or air force the percentage was even lower
than that. Most of the "Vietnam" air force guys were in support bases
in Thailand, Japan or some other place pretty far away. I think the
majority of the air force was in SAC, MAC or some other duty, nowhere
near SE Asia.
The only navy guys actually in country were SEALs or brown water navy
guys along with the Coast Guard running up the rivers. That is what I
tried for ... twice. I was young and dumb I guess.



Seabees were also in Vietnam. My brother spent two tours building
facilities at China Beach. Is an Agent Orange vet now.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/17 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S



More of your nonsense.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:49:24 -0600 (MDT), justan wrote:

Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 8/24/17 7:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 6:11 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:22 AM, wrote:
On 24 Aug 2017 03:14:14 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country. At least
that's honest.

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial
complex.
I don?t believe it served the country.

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.



Most guys in my age group in the 1960s never got drafted.


You didn't have to be drafted to serve your country.



I don't accept your premise. If you volunteered for the military during
those days, you were enabling the slaughter of SE Asians, even if you
were stationed in Germany, Alabama, or Washington, D.C. If you really
wanted to serve your country during those dark times, you could have
become a fireman, a teacher, a social worker, et cetera.


But you didn't

Great photo. Was that taken with the new Nikon D850?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:01:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:14:04 -0400, John H
wrote:

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.

Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the
Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the
forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap.

I think the fall of the Soviets and the, loss for Russia, of all of
those countries between Western Europe and Russia widened the border a
bit and made that surprise attack a little less "surprising".
When Hitler went the other way, he had to take Poland and
Czechoslovakia first.
I do understand why Putin gets nervous when we talk about putting them
into NATO tho. The last time the Russians saw that kind of buildup on
their western border, Barbarosa came next.

It wouldn't have been a big surprise. We knew what was there in terms of divisions and armies. A
hell of a lot of them!

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:22:10 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:17:29 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:49:39 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:09:08 -0400,
wrote:

I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.



===

It's easy to understand why, especially for the married guys with
families

I believe the military is best suited to single people. Otherwise
there is always going to be a conflict.
I agree if you have a nice Pentagon, Meade or Andrews billet, you are
just another commuter but like I said, why bother with the military at
that point, just get a job with a DoD contractor.

Don't know about Meade or Andrews, but most Pentagon billets are not nice unless you're a junior
enlisted. The only nice thing about it is not fighting rush hour traffic 'cause you're going in at
o-dark-thirty and coming home well after sunset.

Like I said, a commuter.
Andrews or Meade were a pretty good gig because there was plenty of
housing nearby that a GI could afford and the traffic was easy. I
assume Belvior is the same but I really never knew anyone there. We
also knew a lot of Navy guys at NAS, NRC (Anacostia) and Indian Head.
Bolling had people from all of the services doing something. One guy
we knew was in the Marines working there but I also knew a few Air
Force guys there.
If you lived in SE DC or "near in" PG county, everyone either worked
for USCS or the military. At places like the gun factory (now the
Washington navy yard) there were far more civilians than military. The
last actual "gun" activity was re sleeving the 16" guns on the Iowa.
That was in the early 60s. My father was working some kind of
intelligence job there but he never elaborated beyond saying he did
"planning".

Well, now you know someone. I was stationed at Belvoir for four years, 1972-1976, not counting OCS
there in '67.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:05 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S



More of your nonsense.

Nonsense is you posting things like the above without saying which
part was "nonsense".
I understand that if you registered as 2-S they were not going to
draft you.
It is also true that your chance of having to go to SE asia in 1962-3
when you were 18 was nil. It was a volunteer job then and most of the
people there were some kind of special ops that you would not have
qualified for anyway. By the time of the Gulf of Tonkin lie, you would
be in college with a GI Bill scholarship.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:07:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:01:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:14:04 -0400, John H
wrote:

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.

Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the
Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the
forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap.

I think the fall of the Soviets and the, loss for Russia, of all of
those countries between Western Europe and Russia widened the border a
bit and made that surprise attack a little less "surprising".
When Hitler went the other way, he had to take Poland and
Czechoslovakia first.
I do understand why Putin gets nervous when we talk about putting them
into NATO tho. The last time the Russians saw that kind of buildup on
their western border, Barbarosa came next.

It wouldn't have been a big surprise. We knew what was there in terms of divisions and armies. A
hell of a lot of them!

But the Soviets could stage right across the West German border (and
they did) making the Fulda Gap significant. Now the front would be 100
miles from there along the border of Poland, Hungary or Ukraine.
I do think we may have outgrown European ground wars tho.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:46:49 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:07:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:01:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:14:04 -0400, John H
wrote:

If you had decent qualifications they could have sent you to Germany
to defend us from the godless communists like my computer literate
friend from Maryland. With the qualifications you had, you could have
sat in the Stars and Stripes office in Saigon with Al Gore for a few
months and gone back home. The reality is, most people in the military
in the 60s never saw combat or even got close.

Or me. My first and last overseas tours were in Germany, working on plans to defend us from the
Godless communists! Saddam took our attention away from the Fulda Gap for a while. I wonder if the
forces over there still plan for an 'active defense' in the Fulda Gap.

I think the fall of the Soviets and the, loss for Russia, of all of
those countries between Western Europe and Russia widened the border a
bit and made that surprise attack a little less "surprising".
When Hitler went the other way, he had to take Poland and
Czechoslovakia first.
I do understand why Putin gets nervous when we talk about putting them
into NATO tho. The last time the Russians saw that kind of buildup on
their western border, Barbarosa came next.

It wouldn't have been a big surprise. We knew what was there in terms of divisions and armies. A
hell of a lot of them!

But the Soviets could stage right across the West German border (and
they did) making the Fulda Gap significant. Now the front would be 100
miles from there along the border of Poland, Hungary or Ukraine.
I do think we may have outgrown European ground wars tho.

Agreed, hopefully. Although possession is still 9/10th's of the law, eh?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.Â* There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant other who both joined the navy. Both were trying to find ways to avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after kids arrived. One had the navy pay her way through nursing school right here in Halifax.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/17 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:05 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:57:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.


So, maybe you might have considered serving in the military but only if
it was in total peacetime? Figures.

No not a chance. Harry is older than me and it WAS peace time when I
joined (64 reporting Jan 65). LBJ had just told us he would be keeping
us out of the Vietnam conflict.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

Harry was hiding behind his 2-S



More of your nonsense.

Nonsense is you posting things like the above without saying which
part was "nonsense".
I understand that if you registered as 2-S they were not going to
draft you.
It is also true that your chance of having to go to SE asia in 1962-3
when you were 18 was nil. It was a volunteer job then and most of the
people there were some kind of special ops that you would not have
qualified for anyway. By the time of the Gulf of Tonkin lie, you would
be in college with a GI Bill scholarship.



It is nonsense to state I was hiding behind a student status. Like
millions of young men my age, I went to college. I didn't go to college
to avoid the draft or military service, just as I didn't consider
college a trade school. Virtually everyone I knew from my high school
and several others went to college.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.Â* There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant other who both joined the navy. Both were trying to find ways to avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after kids arrived. One had the navy pay her way through nursing school right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and then
try to get out of it. Love it.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:43:25 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.* We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.* There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the mission
of the Navy and the fleet.** I don't know the breakdown but* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years
of shore duty.* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that
also counted as sea duty.* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant other who both joined the navy. Both were trying to find ways to avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after kids arrived. One had the navy pay her way through nursing school right here in Halifax.

Apparently they were not 'into ships at sea', eh?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and then
try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of. Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.Â* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.


Yeah, like it is really complex and secretive, right? I understand that
if you sign up, the military will assign you where it has needs or where
you might have abilities, but to join up so you can serve in an office
building or on a dock? Meh.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

In article n8mdnZuv57TM1wLEnZ2dnUU7-
,
says...


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of. Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.

What do they use to make bug juice?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/25/2017 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?


Don't know what they use now. Both of my sons spent time on larger,
more modern ships and according to them they never had lack of water or
rationing.

My only experience with reverse osmosis was with two smaller systems we
had at one of the houses in Florida. One was in the kitchen that
produced drinking water. Water was blah. The other was a somewhat
larger system near the hanger. It had a 5 gallon storage tank that I
used as a final rinse when washing the cars. The problem with both of
them was that it took forever to replenish the water when the tanks were
empty. Very slow process.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.



The Coasties didn't have those problems. They always had locker
rooms and grocery stores nearby.
--
x

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

Wrote in message:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



R O can't handle the needed volume.
--
x

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:43:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/25/2017 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?


Don't know what they use now. Both of my sons spent time on larger,
more modern ships and according to them they never had lack of water or
rationing.

My only experience with reverse osmosis was with two smaller systems we
had at one of the houses in Florida. One was in the kitchen that
produced drinking water. Water was blah. The other was a somewhat
larger system near the hanger. It had a 5 gallon storage tank that I
used as a final rinse when washing the cars. The problem with both of
them was that it took forever to replenish the water when the tanks were
empty. Very slow process.



===

You had fresh water systems with no pressure pump. Salt water systems
require much higher pressure and can be engineered to provide just
about any flow rate. My wife and I get by just fine with about 20
gallons a day on average. How many crew on a destroyer?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

We were on a smaller ship than you and we were at sea for 5 weeks at a
time. I am not sure why they couldn't keep you in food. They had huge
"reefers" and lots of dry stores. They generally had fresh eggs for
the whole cruise but they mixed in some powder I am sure.
We also seemed to have enough fresh water. Maybe you just had more
guys on board. We had around 75 on a 311' ship. These things were
originally sea plane tenders so they were all "tank". We carried
enough fuel to sail around the world a couple times and I assume they
had big fresh water tanks. We did have a strict "sea shower" rule but
you could take a salt water shower as long as you wanted.
The trick was you took a long "Hollywood" shower in sea water then did
a quick rinse in fresh.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:00:52 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?

I doubt anyone had even heard of RO in the 60s. The ships we were on
were from WWII and I am sure they did not have RO then.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:43:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/25/2017 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?


Don't know what they use now. Both of my sons spent time on larger,
more modern ships and according to them they never had lack of water or
rationing.

My only experience with reverse osmosis was with two smaller systems we
had at one of the houses in Florida. One was in the kitchen that
produced drinking water. Water was blah. The other was a somewhat
larger system near the hanger. It had a 5 gallon storage tank that I
used as a final rinse when washing the cars. The problem with both of
them was that it took forever to replenish the water when the tanks were
empty. Very slow process.


It all has to do with the amount of membrane you have and the pressure
you run at. Sanibel and parts of the Cape are on RO systems now but
they are using brackish water from wells, not salt water.
I have a small RO here, just for drinking water and ice makers. It
makes about 8 gallons a day with new membranes and filters. As they
age, that falls off. I get about 2 years out of a membrane and filters
go about 6 months. I did put in a bigger cartridge filter with cheaper
elements in front of the proprietary filters the RO uses. I have
gauges throughout the system so I can monitor the operation.
You can put a booster pump in front of the RO and increase your
output.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:17:42 -0600 (MDT), justan wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.



The Coasties didn't have those problems. They always had locker
rooms and grocery stores nearby.

If you are 200 miles off the coast of Greenland ... not so much.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/25/2017 10:38 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:43:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/25/2017 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?


Don't know what they use now. Both of my sons spent time on larger,
more modern ships and according to them they never had lack of water or
rationing.

My only experience with reverse osmosis was with two smaller systems we
had at one of the houses in Florida. One was in the kitchen that
produced drinking water. Water was blah. The other was a somewhat
larger system near the hanger. It had a 5 gallon storage tank that I
used as a final rinse when washing the cars. The problem with both of
them was that it took forever to replenish the water when the tanks were
empty. Very slow process.



===

You had fresh water systems with no pressure pump. Salt water systems
require much higher pressure and can be engineered to provide just
about any flow rate. My wife and I get by just fine with about 20
gallons a day on average. How many crew on a destroyer?


170 to 190 depending on mission.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/25/2017 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:00:52 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

===

I'm surprised they didn't have reverse osmosis systems, wonder if that
has changed?

I doubt anyone had even heard of RO in the 60s. The ships we were on
were from WWII and I am sure they did not have RO then.



The DE's I was on were built in the mid 50's. They had conventional
evaporators. I don't know what the PG had. It was newer, build in the
late 60's and only had a compliment of 24.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/25/2017 12:01 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

We were on a smaller ship than you and we were at sea for 5 weeks at a
time. I am not sure why they couldn't keep you in food. They had huge
"reefers" and lots of dry stores. They generally had fresh eggs for
the whole cruise but they mixed in some powder I am sure.
We also seemed to have enough fresh water. Maybe you just had more
guys on board. We had around 75 on a 311' ship. These things were
originally sea plane tenders so they were all "tank". We carried
enough fuel to sail around the world a couple times and I assume they
had big fresh water tanks. We did have a strict "sea shower" rule but
you could take a salt water shower as long as you wanted.
The trick was you took a long "Hollywood" shower in sea water then did
a quick rinse in fresh.



Different ships for different purposes. Based on your description and
vintage it sounds like you were on a Barnegat class cutter. Only 4
feet shorter than the DE's I was on but, according to Wiki, your cutter
had a crew compliment of 215. What was the name or hull number?

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 12:50:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/25/2017 12:01 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:25:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/24/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:07:07 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:50:57 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

What do they use to make bug juice?

===

Bug Juice is any powdered drink like Kool-Aid.


The CG fed us better ;-)



Navy shore commands and the larger ships usually had good food. The
smaller ships like the destroyer escorts I was on didn't have the
storage capacity for a lot of fresh food for longer cruises. We ate
well for the first few days but then it got pretty bad. Most of us
stocked up our lockers with canned food and other treats that didn't
need refrigeration.

The evaporators could never keep up with the demand for fresh water so
we were always on water hour rationing while underway. Taking a real
shower became a once in a great while deal.

We were on a smaller ship than you and we were at sea for 5 weeks at a
time. I am not sure why they couldn't keep you in food. They had huge
"reefers" and lots of dry stores. They generally had fresh eggs for
the whole cruise but they mixed in some powder I am sure.
We also seemed to have enough fresh water. Maybe you just had more
guys on board. We had around 75 on a 311' ship. These things were
originally sea plane tenders so they were all "tank". We carried
enough fuel to sail around the world a couple times and I assume they
had big fresh water tanks. We did have a strict "sea shower" rule but
you could take a salt water shower as long as you wanted.
The trick was you took a long "Hollywood" shower in sea water then did
a quick rinse in fresh.



Different ships for different purposes. Based on your description and
vintage it sounds like you were on a Barnegat class cutter. Only 4
feet shorter than the DE's I was on but, according to Wiki, your cutter
had a crew compliment of 215. What was the name or hull number?

When I was there the enlisted crew was around 75 (that may not have
included the SONAR guys since they were on another planet). I am not
sure where they would put 215. Maybe that was the navy crew when they
were tending seaplanes or something. I am sure they also had more
ordinance people on board since the CG removed quite a bit of the
firepower. We just had a 5", a rack of hedge hogs and 6 torpedo tubes
along with a half dozen M2s and other small arms. We had the tubs on
the 03 deck where 40mm guns used to be and there was a mount on the
fantail where the weather shack ended up being.
We only had a GM chief, a GM3 or 2 and a couple FTs. We were all
gunners mates. ;-)
I was on the Absecon W374 and Chincoteague W375 (Berkeley Base in
Chesapeake near Norfolk). I was also on the Mendota W68 a 255' out of
Wilmington NC.
I did a reserve cruise to Nassau on the Tananger the last 2 weeks I
was in, actually extending about a week but I don't remember much
about it. My give a **** button was broken by then.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.Â* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:01:14 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser Soze* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.** I don't know the breakdown but* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.

Is your spelling supposed to make you seem more intelligent?

How laughable do you think your self-congratulatory claims are? Quite.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:01:14 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.Â* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.

I agree that if they are being rammed by big lumbering merchant ships,
there does seem to be a hole in the situational awareness on the
bridge of these navy ships. I think it is arrogance coupled with an
over reliance on electronics. Both of these things seem to have
involved a course change by the merchant ships that was missed by the
people on the bridge of the navy ship. I think that may be why some
are saying this could have been a cyber attack. Even if they did hack
the on board computers, doesn't anyone look out the window anymore?
Maybe not. This is the video game generation.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:01:14 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/




They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.Â* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.

I agree that if they are being rammed by big lumbering merchant ships,
there does seem to be a hole in the situational awareness on the
bridge of these navy ships. I think it is arrogance coupled with an
over reliance on electronics. Both of these things seem to have
involved a course change by the merchant ships that was missed by the
people on the bridge of the navy ship. I think that may be why some
are saying this could have been a cyber attack. Even if they did hack
the on board computers, doesn't anyone look out the window anymore?
Maybe not. This is the video game generation.


A year of small boat handling might help.

--
Posted with my iPhone 7+.

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 10:59:27 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:01:14 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser Soze* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/




They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.** I don't know the breakdown but* I believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations at
any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.* My only duty that did not count as sea duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you have
absolutely no knowledge of.* Tooling around on Long Island Sound or on
the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on a ship
that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month cruise and
breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.

I agree that if they are being rammed by big lumbering merchant ships,
there does seem to be a hole in the situational awareness on the
bridge of these navy ships. I think it is arrogance coupled with an
over reliance on electronics. Both of these things seem to have
involved a course change by the merchant ships that was missed by the
people on the bridge of the navy ship. I think that may be why some
are saying this could have been a cyber attack. Even if they did hack
the on board computers, doesn't anyone look out the window anymore?
Maybe not. This is the video game generation.


A year of small boat handling might help.

===

I agree with that, especially in a crowded harbor like Boston, New
York, Baltimore or Norfolk. It should also be a recognized naval
career specialty, on the order of being a harbor pilot which requires
similar skill and training.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

A Look At Officer Training In The US Navy and Merchant Marine
 

On 8/26/2017 9:01 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 5:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 4:23 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 2:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 21:00:56 UTC-3, Keyser SozeÂ* wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.
We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing
up for
the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a
vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL facilities,
administration, logistics and supply facilities that support the
mission
of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the breakdown butÂ* I
believe
that far more Navy personnel are assigned to shore duty stations
at any
one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years
of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes.
I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours overseas
that
also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not count as sea
duty
was time in schools and my last duty station in Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

Funny you should ask that. I had a niece and a nephew's significant
other who both joined the navy.Â* Both were trying to find ways to
avoid sea duty after a couple long deployments and especially after
kids arrived.Â* One had the navy pay her way through nursing school
right here in Halifax.


One of life's absurdities...join a force that sends you to sea and
then try to get out of it. Love it.


I admit, it is amusing to read your comments on a subject that you
have absolutely no knowledge of.Â* Tooling around on Long Island Sound
or on the Chesapeake Bay on "YO HO" isn't exactly like being at sea on
a ship that runs out of fresh water on the second day of a six month
cruise and breakfast consists of powdered eggs, coffee or Bug Juice.

You've never experienced "Channel Fever" either.



Interesting how much praise you boys throw on the naveee for its
technical training programs...perhaps the naveee should concentrate on
training how to run a ship so it doesn't crash into another ship or run
aground. Makes the claims of near-invulnerbility of these ships to enemy
attacks laughable.


I'll be interested in the results of the investigations.