End for End vs Dipping
 

I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

Ryk

End for End vs Dipping
 

Ryk wrote:
I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys.

You seem to be equating "single sheets" with "end for end". Doesn't
have to be that way. I once sailed on a NY-36 which did end-for-end
gybes with separate sheets and guys.

End for End vs Dipping
 

$author = "Roy Smith " ;
Ryk wrote:
I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys.

You seem to be equating "single sheets" with "end for end". Doesn't
have to be that way. I once sailed on a NY-36 which did end-for-end
gybes with separate sheets and guys.

I don't think he was implying that, rather that his boat was in the middle
ground where end-to-end without single sheets was too hard and dip-pole was
overkill but end-to-end with seperate sheets and braces would be viable.

We run end-to-end / seperate sheets & braces on a Sydney 32 with no
problems.

Have a look at what other similar boats use, consider the calibre of the
pole required (especially it's weight given how long it will be) and how
many crew you will be sailing with.

marty

End for End vs Dipping
 

$author = "Martin " ;

I don't think he was implying that, rather that his boat was in the middle
ground where end-to-end without single sheets was too hard and dip-pole was
overkill but end-to-end with seperate sheets and braces would be viable.

of course that should read "where end-to-end with single sheets was too hard"

marty

End for End vs Dipping
 

Wrong newsgroup buttface.
Take this crap to alt.sailing.pussies


"Ryk" wrote in message
...

I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

Ryk

End for End vs Dipping
 

Ryk wrote:

I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

A big big difference is that end-for-end gear is cheaper.... by a lot.
Even if you have a carbon fiber pole, 15' is a big spinnaker pole, unless
cost is a major factor I'd go with dip gybes. Sheets & guys are a bit
complex but remember you don't need twing lines any more.

Everything is relative.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

End for End vs Dipping
 

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:27:35 -0400, Ryk
wrote:


I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

We have a J36, (I==42.5, J=14.5) and must do end-for-end because there
are only two of us on the boat normally. We only do gybes in moderate
air, having once had an "interesting" experience with a J35 chute in
20-30 kts.

This year (after 14 seasons) we finally got an ATN sock as a geriatric
aid. When in doubt, we pull the sock down, gybe, and raise it again.

I do think dipping might be better if you always have enough trained
people to do it. But unless you are sure you will never need to
end-for-end, get a symmetrical pole anyway.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Religious wisdom is to wisdom as military music is to music."

End for End vs Dipping
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:27:35 UTC, Ryk wrote:


I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

Long long ago I did lots of gybes both ways... On a 3/4 tonner we
always dipped, but when match racing in 35 footers, the other guys
blew us away in the first race by end for ending... We changed!

End for end can be faster because you do not have to dip the pole. The
foreguy can be brought back near the mast and need not be adjusted
except for some slack...One less person needed.

Obviously, twin sheets/guys make it easier....

One major advantage of end for ending is that the pole goes out square
where you want it to be.

In really heavy air, I find that gybes (end for end, single sheets) in
my Etchells are no harder in 25 than in 15. It is much easier if you
gybe the pole "early" so it is made onto the mast entirely behind the
main, then pull the main over. When done that way, the heaviest load
handled is the main sheet! And the most dangerous point is that the
mainsheet always wants to catch my neck!

There is no reason that you could not do single sheet end for end
gybes. The major fault point is the helmsman rotating the boat too
quickly. If you are racing, sometimes there is no choice. If you are
cruising then you can pick your spot. So it depends to a certain
extent upon the crew being fast enough to stay ahead of what the
skipper wants to do!... That might mean double sheets for you.


Geoff

End for End vs Dipping
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:10:12 GMT, in message
JcldVHe8EppF-pn2-wDsm1ulQdUdd@localhost
"R. G. Newbury" wrote:

Long long ago I did lots of gybes both ways... On a 3/4 tonner we
always dipped, but when match racing in 35 footers, the other guys
blew us away in the first race by end for ending... We changed!

End for end can be faster because you do not have to dip the pole. The
foreguy can be brought back near the mast and need not be adjusted
except for some slack...One less person needed.

And nobody needs to go to the bow, just a little forward of the mast.

Obviously, twin sheets/guys make it easier....

That's what I was thinking. I've been racing lately on a 33 frac rig
and pushing the pole out against a loaded sheet has sometimes been a
problem -- popping about 2 feet on the twing at the critical moment
seems to help in getting that last foot.

In really heavy air, I find that gybes (end for end, single sheets) in
my Etchells are no harder in 25 than in 15. It is much easier if you
gybe the pole "early" so it is made onto the mast entirely behind the
main, then pull the main over.

Yes, we've found that works really well when it gets heavier.

There is no reason that you could not do single sheet end for end
gybes. The major fault point is the helmsman rotating the boat too
quickly. If you are racing, sometimes there is no choice. If you are
cruising then you can pick your spot. So it depends to a certain
extent upon the crew being fast enough to stay ahead of what the
skipper wants to do!... That might mean double sheets for you.

Single or double I can experiment with -- I have *lots* of line. It
sounds like the best choice will be a fully symmetric pole with a big
ring on the track for maximum flexibility.

Ryk

End for End vs Dipping - Wow
 

What a great survey in a discussion!

Ryk,
The only I would add to this mix is:
If you buy gear for dip only then you are stuck, but if you set up with
a good mast car and a pole that can double end - you have the best of
both and can do either.

If not said -
Remember that dipping needs 5 men and and swing can be 4 with that size
boat.

Mark the mast with the car height for dipping in any case.

I have found the size limit for swing is more dicated by conditions and
pole weight that J.

Matt "Bonne Ide'e"

Ryk wrote:
I'm about to add a spin rig on my Hughes 35 (I=44ft, J=14.5ft). A
little googling yields a variety of opinions on the reasonable upper
size limit for an end-for-end gybe. I think the boat is too big to
manage it with single, loaded sheets, but that it should be manageable
with separate sheets and guys. I'm looking for other opinions and/or
suggestions on what works best for you.

As for thrills, a gybe in 20 or 30 knots of breeze can be pretty
exciting no matter how it's choreographed ;-)

Ryk