MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:39:28 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:41:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:09:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/16/2017 4:34 PM, wrote:


On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:44:10 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

why we have any interest in the middle east at all. It certainly is
not oil.

Maybe it's just simple humanitarianism.

There are people being ****ed over all over the planet and we really
do not care in most places.



In terms of percent of GNP, Sweden leads the list for foreign
humanitarian aid by government at just under 1 percent of GNP.
In terms of GNI (whatever that is) Turkey actually is on top.

The USA government direct humanitarian aid by GNP is something like
number 20 on the list.

However, when you add in private and corporate donations, the USA dwarfs
all other nations in total humanitarian aid at about 6.4 billion.
Surprisingly, Turkey is next at $3.2 billion, then the UK at $2.8
billion. (2015 numbers)

I guess it depends on who you say doesn't care.


If the DoD budget is actually Humanitarian aid as has been posed here,
we win ... by a long shot.

Who 'posed' that? It may have been suggested that a small portion of the DoD budget was used for
humanitarian aid, but your statement above is false.

You are the one who says the war in Syria and Afghanistan is for
humanitarian purposes.

Actually I was referring mainly to our response to the use of chemical weapons. I will admit that
more clarity would have been preferable.

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:42:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:44:16 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

ISIS influence could be blunted with some education and Kim would not
last a week if his people actually understood the lie.

Educate who? How? While you may be right about Kim's people, Kim has a huge Army to ensure his
people do as he says. As long as he keeps his generals happy, he's got the population under his
thumb.

These regimes only survive because they can perpetuate the lie.

I don't disagree with that. But, how do you educate the population to the truth? It's not as simple
as cleaning up one of Harry's lies on rec.boats.

While I was in Korea a North Korean fighter pilot defected to the south. He scared the **** out of a
lot of folks at Osan Air Base, but it was able to land. Under questioning, the pilot stated he
started thinking of defecting because of a package of Ramen soup mix he'd found on a beach. He
couldn't believe that such a thing existed.

Now, there may have been some embellishment, I don't know. But that's the word that came to the
Combined Forces Command Hq. It does demonstrate just how cut off the NK population is from the rest
of the world.

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:44:56 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:47:53 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:25:01 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:05:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/16/2017 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:42:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/16/2017 4:45 PM, wrote:

That is even sillier in this context than the one up thread a bit.
If we were just interested in humanitarian causes, we would be bombing
Afghanistan with food, books and satellite connected PCs.
That would be a winning strategy in N Korea too.



The vast majority of the NK population wouldn't know what the PC's were,
let alone know how to use them.

I guess you have not seen the stories about the people who are
spreading cheap PCs among 3d world people. The kids pick it up and
start using it right away with minimal training.

http://one.laptop.org/


In North Korea? Most places there don't even have electricity to
charge the batteries. Check out the night time satellite images.
South Korea is lit up like a Christmas tree, right up to the border
where it suddenly goes pitch black everywhere.


That machine can be charged a couple different ways including a hand
crank, solar or a various combination of electrical sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO

It is really a pretty cool machine.For $200 you can get 2, one for you
and one for a kid in Fumbuck.

If these PCs would enable North Koreans to see how the rest of the world lives, then I am sure the
penalty for owning one would be very severe.

That strategy works until it doesn't. As the Soviets found out, change
can happen in the blink of an eye.

It's worked for quite a while, and I don't see any activity to depose the current Supreme Almighty
Leader!

MOAB story
 

On 4/17/2017 2:45 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:42:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:44:16 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

ISIS influence could be blunted with some education and Kim would not
last a week if his people actually understood the lie.

Educate who? How? While you may be right about Kim's people, Kim has a huge Army to ensure his
people do as he says. As long as he keeps his generals happy, he's got the population under his
thumb.

These regimes only survive because they can perpetuate the lie.

I don't disagree with that. But, how do you educate the population to the truth? It's not as simple
as cleaning up one of Harry's lies on rec.boats.

While I was in Korea a North Korean fighter pilot defected to the south. He scared the **** out of a
lot of folks at Osan Air Base, but it was able to land. Under questioning, the pilot stated he
started thinking of defecting because of a package of Ramen soup mix he'd found on a beach. He
couldn't believe that such a thing existed.

Now, there may have been some embellishment, I don't know. But that's the word that came to the
Combined Forces Command Hq. It does demonstrate just how cut off the NK population is from the rest
of the world.



As we used to say in the Navy, the following are "no ****" stories.

When I went to China in 1986 the bathroom in the yet to be officially
opened hotel had towels that appeared to be neatly folded to a width of
about 8 inches and hanging on a rack. When I grabbed one, I realized it
really *was* only 8 inches wide. I asked our Chinese host why they
were so narrow. He laughed and then told me that the Chinese
manufacturers of towels had only seen pictures of what Western or
European towels looked like hanging on a holder and assumed they were
only that wide.

The day before I left the host took me to a shop to do some shopping for
gifts to bring back home. As I walked from display counter to display
counter I realized a growing crowd of little Chinese kids were following
me, staring at me. I asked my host what they found so interesting.
Again he laughed and said, "Richard, you have to understand that you are
the first Caucasian they have ever seen and you look very strange to
them".

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:59:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/17/2017 2:45 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:42:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:44:16 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

ISIS influence could be blunted with some education and Kim would not
last a week if his people actually understood the lie.

Educate who? How? While you may be right about Kim's people, Kim has a huge Army to ensure his
people do as he says. As long as he keeps his generals happy, he's got the population under his
thumb.

These regimes only survive because they can perpetuate the lie.

I don't disagree with that. But, how do you educate the population to the truth? It's not as simple
as cleaning up one of Harry's lies on rec.boats.

While I was in Korea a North Korean fighter pilot defected to the south. He scared the **** out of a
lot of folks at Osan Air Base, but it was able to land. Under questioning, the pilot stated he
started thinking of defecting because of a package of Ramen soup mix he'd found on a beach. He
couldn't believe that such a thing existed.

Now, there may have been some embellishment, I don't know. But that's the word that came to the
Combined Forces Command Hq. It does demonstrate just how cut off the NK population is from the rest
of the world.



As we used to say in the Navy, the following are "no ****" stories.

When I went to China in 1986 the bathroom in the yet to be officially
opened hotel had towels that appeared to be neatly folded to a width of
about 8 inches and hanging on a rack. When I grabbed one, I realized it
really *was* only 8 inches wide. I asked our Chinese host why they
were so narrow. He laughed and then told me that the Chinese
manufacturers of towels had only seen pictures of what Western or
European towels looked like hanging on a holder and assumed they were
only that wide.

The day before I left the host took me to a shop to do some shopping for
gifts to bring back home. As I walked from display counter to display
counter I realized a growing crowd of little Chinese kids were following
me, staring at me. I asked my host what they found so interesting.
Again he laughed and said, "Richard, you have to understand that you are
the first Caucasian they have ever seen and you look very strange to
them".

I believe every bit of it.

Army talk:

The difference between a 'war story' and a fairy tale.

A fairy tale starts, "Once upon a time..."

A war story starts, "This ain't no ****, but..."

Old memories.

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:35:13 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:34:08 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:36:20 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:06:18 -0400, wrote:


The other end of those "burrows" are in Pakistan.

So why do we even bother.

We simply do our best with what we've got.

Not really or we would have used a MOP

Then we would have spent $16 million and people would have a real bitch. As it is we spent only
$170,000.

I doubt if the MOP would have been as effective over a wide area.

If this was about "caves" a wide area would not be an issue. The MOP
would have put the blast underground and destroyed the caves, not just
knock the dust off the ceiling.
I still am waiting to see how many people in that body count were just
walking around in the open and how many were actually combatants.
I remember "body counts" from 50 years ago. Women, children and water
buffalo got counted right along with the VC and NVA.
Harry buried them all tho ;-)

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:37:36 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:


Who 'posed' that? It may have been suggested that a small portion of the DoD budget was used for
humanitarian aid, but your statement above is false.

You are the one who says the war in Syria and Afghanistan is for
humanitarian purposes.

Actually I was referring mainly to our response to the use of chemical weapons. I will admit that
more clarity would have been preferable.

I was confused by your anecdotes of people buried up to the neck and
being stoned to death, rape and genital mutilation ... sorry.
Those things are not limited to the places where we find a reason to
go to war.

MOAB story
 

On 4/17/2017 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:37:36 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:


Who 'posed' that? It may have been suggested that a small portion of the DoD budget was used for
humanitarian aid, but your statement above is false.

You are the one who says the war in Syria and Afghanistan is for
humanitarian purposes.

Actually I was referring mainly to our response to the use of chemical weapons. I will admit that
more clarity would have been preferable.



I was confused by your anecdotes of people buried up to the neck and
being stoned to death, rape and genital mutilation ... sorry.
Those things are not limited to the places where we find a reason to
go to war.


Yeah. Those things are perfectly acceptable in the modern world because
it's a "cultural" thing. Right.

MOAB story
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:55:06 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:35:13 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:34:08 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:36:20 -0400, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:06:18 -0400, wrote:


The other end of those "burrows" are in Pakistan.

So why do we even bother.

We simply do our best with what we've got.

Not really or we would have used a MOP

Then we would have spent $16 million and people would have a real bitch. As it is we spent only
$170,000.

I doubt if the MOP would have been as effective over a wide area.

If this was about "caves" a wide area would not be an issue. The MOP
would have put the blast underground and destroyed the caves, not just
knock the dust off the ceiling.
I still am waiting to see how many people in that body count were just
walking around in the open and how many were actually combatants.
I remember "body counts" from 50 years ago. Women, children and water
buffalo got counted right along with the VC and NVA.
Harry buried them all tho ;-)

A MOP is designed to penetrate, deeply, then explode. It is designed for a point target, such as an
underground nuclear weapons production facility. The MOAB is an area weapon with tremendous
overblast designed to crush whatever's below it.

Besides, the MOAB is cheap. The MOPs run about $16 million each.

MOAB story
 

4:35 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
A MOP is designed to penetrate, deeply, then explode. It is designed for a point target, such as an
underground nuclear weapons production facility. The MOAB is an area weapon with tremendous
overblast designed to crush whatever's below it.

Besides, the MOAB is cheap. The MOPs run about $16 million each.
.....

Germany had a giant MOP sorta thing that were dropped over London in hopes of paralyzing the tube system the idea was to not explode on impact but to bury deep then the timer might ignite even days later destroying trains, tracks, people...

In the 60s they actually found some un exploded ordnance in the subway systems there. Maybe into the 70s.