How true How true
 

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:20:41 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:01:29 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:25:34 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:56:34 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 9:37 AM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:11:49 AM UTC-6, Justan Olphart wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/troosevelt.asp

Ted was a good man. Very wise...

Indeed he was. He'd be rolling over in his grave if he knew how this
country has taken a huge turn for the worse.
Teddy Roosevelt National Park was the nations first. And Devils Tower
was our first national monument. I probably would never have seen either
if it had not been for my trusty home on wheels.

We drove from Spearfish SD to Devil's Tower on the dirt road. It was a
surprise when we stumbled onto it.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Wyom...ate%20line.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Went to Devils Tower by motorcycle with some Dutch friends. I thought it was more
impressive than Mt. Rushmore.

The problem the day we were there was it was so hot. It was surprising
because it was so pleasant everywhere else.


You don't suppose the mother ship was landing that day, do you?
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

How true How true
 

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:57:44 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 11/27/15 2:14 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:44:54 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Comment about life being somehow better during the time of TR was
hilarious. Life was pretty miserable for the average working man and his
family back then. Sheesh.

Why do you think that is true?
Certainly life was simpler and we didn't have all the things we are
used to today but does that automatically make people happier?
If you are talking about the people who moved to the big city to get a
job in a sweat shop, life sucked but that is still true today.
There were still plenty of people who were very happy out in the
country.
Using the 4 branches of my family as an example, nobody really thought
life sucked that bad
My maternal grandmother's family at the turn of the century were
fishing right down the road from you. My maternal grandfather's family
was in the wholesale grocery and seafood business in Baltimore and
points south (how they met).
My paternal grandmother's family were real "sooners" already living in
Oklahoma when they started the rush and my grandfather's family were
in the tool business in Missouri.

I have not really ever heard a lot of stories about bad things in
their life until the depression but that is not the Roosevelt you are
talking about.

What TR did do was break up some of the robber barren companies with
anti trust legislation. He also started the park system and the
concept of federal land preservation.


Sounds like paradise:

America in 1900

Most Americans in 1900 were living in what we today would consider
poverty. In present-day dollars, per capita American income in 1900
averaged around $5000, less than a fifth the current level. In other
words, the typical American in 1900 had about the same income that a
typical Mexican has today.

Only three percent of American homes were lit by electricity.

Only about a third of American homes had running water; only 15% had
flush toilets; and half of farm households didn?t even have an outhouse.

Most people lived within a mile of where they worked, and depended on
their feet to get them around. Only one urban household in five owned a
horse.

Half of all people lived in spaces where they averaged more than one
person per room. Taking in lodgers was common.

Life expectancy at birth was 47 years, and infant mortality rates were
high. Of every 1000 babies born, 140 died in their first year. These
days, fewer than 10 do.

Flu, pneumonia, typhoid, gastritis, and whooping cough were common
causes of death.

10% of the American population was completely illiterate, and the
average adult had an 8th grade education. Only 7% of students would ever
complete high school.

A man's typical on-the-job work week consisted of 60 hours of work
spread over six days. Pensions were rare; men generally worked until
they were too feeble to go on doing so. 2/3rds of men over 65 had
fulltime jobs.

Women were 18% of the paid work force. They mainly worked in fields like
textiles, apparel, shoes, canning -? fields where you were paid
according to how much you produced.

At home, women spent around 40 hours a week on meal preparation and meal
cleanup, seven hours on laundry, and another seven hours on
housecleaning. The average housewife baked a half a ton of bread --
about 1400 loaves -- a year.

They probably didn't **** and moan nearly so much as you do.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

How true How true
 

On 11/27/2015 4:35 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:20:41 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:01:29 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:25:34 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:56:34 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 9:37 AM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:11:49 AM UTC-6, Justan Olphart wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/troosevelt.asp

Ted was a good man. Very wise...

Indeed he was. He'd be rolling over in his grave if he knew how this
country has taken a huge turn for the worse.
Teddy Roosevelt National Park was the nations first. And Devils Tower
was our first national monument. I probably would never have seen either
if it had not been for my trusty home on wheels.

We drove from Spearfish SD to Devil's Tower on the dirt road. It was a
surprise when we stumbled onto it.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Wyom...ate%20line.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Went to Devils Tower by motorcycle with some Dutch friends. I thought it was more
impressive than Mt. Rushmore.

The problem the day we were there was it was so hot. It was surprising
because it was so pleasant everywhere else.


You don't suppose the mother ship was landing that day, do you?
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Well, you have to expect a little heat. It is the devils tower, dontcha
know.

How true How true
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 11/27/15 2:14 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:44:54 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Comment about life being somehow better during the time of TR was
hilarious. Life was pretty miserable for the average working man and his
family back then. Sheesh.

Why do you think that is true?
Certainly life was simpler and we didn't have all the things we are
used to today but does that automatically make people happier?
If you are talking about the people who moved to the big city to get a
job in a sweat shop, life sucked but that is still true today.
There were still plenty of people who were very happy out in the
country.
Using the 4 branches of my family as an example, nobody really thought
life sucked that bad
My maternal grandmother's family at the turn of the century were
fishing right down the road from you. My maternal grandfather's family
was in the wholesale grocery and seafood business in Baltimore and
points south (how they met).
My paternal grandmother's family were real "sooners" already living in
Oklahoma when they started the rush and my grandfather's family were
in the tool business in Missouri.

I have not really ever heard a lot of stories about bad things in
their life until the depression but that is not the Roosevelt you are
talking about.

What TR did do was break up some of the robber barren companies with
anti trust legislation. He also started the park system and the
concept of federal land preservation.


Sounds like paradise:

America in 1900

Most Americans in 1900 were living in what we today would consider
poverty. In present-day dollars, per capita American income in 1900
averaged around $5000, less than a fifth the current level. In other
words, the typical American in 1900 had about the same income that a
typical Mexican has today.

Only three percent of American homes were lit by electricity.

Only about a third of American homes had running water; only 15% had
flush toilets; and half of farm households didn�t even have an outhouse.

Most people lived within a mile of where they worked, and depended on
their feet to get them around. Only one urban household in five owned a
horse.

Half of all people lived in spaces where they averaged more than one
person per room. Taking in lodgers was common.

Life expectancy at birth was 47 years, and infant mortality rates were
high. Of every 1000 babies born, 140 died in their first year. These
days, fewer than 10 do.

Flu, pneumonia, typhoid, gastritis, and whooping cough were common
causes of death.

10% of the American population was completely illiterate, and the
average adult had an 8th grade education. Only 7% of students would ever
complete high school.

A man's typical on-the-job work week consisted of 60 hours of work
spread over six days. Pensions were rare; men generally worked until
they were too feeble to go on doing so. 2/3rds of men over 65 had
fulltime jobs.

Women were 18% of the paid work force. They mainly worked in fields like
textiles, apparel, shoes, canning -� fields where you were paid
according to how much you produced.

At home, women spent around 40 hours a week on meal preparation and meal
cleanup, seven hours on laundry, and another seven hours on
housecleaning. The average housewife baked a half a ton of bread --
about 1400 loaves -- a year.


$5000 is probably high, and would be the equivalent of $50k today. Life
expectancy was shorter overall, but mostly because of infant mortality and
death by accident and disease. Penicillin was a later invention and before
that was mostly sulfa drugs. We have decreased death by infection but we
also keep vegetable alive who should be left to die. How much time is now
spent shopping and working for bread relative to ,the time spent baking.
We have life easier in a lot of ways, but maybe not in happiness. Literacy
still sucks. When you have 50% school dropout rate in major cities, and
people who can not read their diploma, has literacy increased? We are
talking abut happiness. Was their a greater or lesser amount of suicide
percentage?

How true How true
 

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:35:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:20:41 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:01:29 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:25:34 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:56:34 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 9:37 AM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:11:49 AM UTC-6, Justan Olphart wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/troosevelt.asp

Ted was a good man. Very wise...

Indeed he was. He'd be rolling over in his grave if he knew how this
country has taken a huge turn for the worse.
Teddy Roosevelt National Park was the nations first. And Devils Tower
was our first national monument. I probably would never have seen either
if it had not been for my trusty home on wheels.

We drove from Spearfish SD to Devil's Tower on the dirt road. It was a
surprise when we stumbled onto it.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Wyom...ate%20line.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Went to Devils Tower by motorcycle with some Dutch friends. I thought it was more
impressive than Mt. Rushmore.

The problem the day we were there was it was so hot. It was surprising
because it was so pleasant everywhere else.


You don't suppose the mother ship was landing that day, do you?

We were making the hand gestures and humming the 4 tone sequence, just
in case.

How true How true
 

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:26:45 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:

$5000 is probably high, and would be the equivalent of $50k today

Harry was so full of **** with that tirade, I let that go. My starting
salary in 1966 was $5120. My parents broke out the champaign when 2
people were making $10,000 ... around 1960.

It really means nothing anyway. They must not have talked about
inflation in that college he went to.

How true How true
 

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:26:45 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:

$5000 is probably high, and would be the equivalent of $50k today

Harry was so full of **** with that tirade, I let that go. My starting
salary in 1966 was $5120. My parents broke out the champaign when 2
people were making $10,000 ... around 1960.

It really means nothing anyway. They must not have talked about
inflation in that college he went to.


Yup. I started as an apprentice at NCR at $62.50 a week in 1962. In
school pay was $95 a week. My girl friend at the time in Dayton was an RN.
$376 a month. Out of school pay began at $120 a week. Military when I
started in 1965 was $60 a month.

How true How true
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 21:46:18 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

Military when I
started in 1965 was $60 a month.

Same here and in 66 when I started at IBM the $95 a week seemed like a
fortune. It turned out well for everyone since I was underpaid when I
started, I got a raise every 4 months or so for 2 years. Everyone was
happy.