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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as ‘Experienced’ and ‘Trusted’ Mariner
A friend of ours in Connecticut who is a containership captain went to school with the captain of the El Faro at Maine Maritime Academy in Castine. http://gcaptain.com/captain-of-ill-fated-el-faro-described-as-experienced-and-trusted-mariner/#.VhejXSssycM http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/2015/10/08/fifth-maine-maritime-academy-graduate-lost-sea/73579548/ |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
That's a pretty sad deal Wayne. Sometimes there's no one to blame. I believe they were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. He probably was caught off guard when the weather twisted on them in moments.
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as ‘Experienced’ and ‘Trusted’ Mariner
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: That's a pretty sad deal Wayne. Sometimes there's no one to blame. I believe they were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. He probably was caught off guard when the weather twisted on them in moments. Maybe you guys don't look at the weather as much as we do in Florida but this storm was very well predicted. The models kept pushing it off to the east but other than that there was plenty of warning for that captain. As soon as it was apparent that it was going to go well east of Florida, he had an out but it would have added a day to his trip. The El Faro could run at up to 22kts so adding a few hundred extra miles was not that big a deal. This had to be about money (fuel and maybe an on time bonus). |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought.
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
Yes Wayne there will be investigations and incident re-constructions for quite some time.
Regardless, it's still a tragic loss of life. Hopefully it wasn't due to poor judgement, but like Greg pointed out, it could have been. Then it becomes tragic and senseless. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On 10/10/15 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? Surely you are not alluding to a corporate climate in which saving lives and not losing a ship are less important than an in$urance claim? Why, that sort of thinking is *so* un'Merican. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400,
wrote: - show quoted text - Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? ......... IMO not near the worth of loss of life |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On 10/10/15 9:54 AM, Tim wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: - show quoted text - Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? ........ IMO not near the worth of loss of life The "worth" to who, exactly? What's the monetary value of a crew member's life to the shipping company? How much does it have to pay out of pocket? |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 10/10/15 9:40 AM, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? Surely you are not alluding to a corporate climate in which saving lives and not losing a ship are less important than an in$urance claim? Why, that sort of thinking is *so* un'Merican. The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:40:11 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? === Conspiracy theories are always fun to kick around even when they are a bit improbable. When you factor in the reputational risk to the company, the asset loss, and all of the crew and cargo liabilities, it's unlikely they could profit in any way. The captain always has ultimate responsibility for the safety of crew, cargo and ship. In the end it will go down as a bad decision on his part no matter what might have motivated the risk taking. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On 10/10/15 12:59 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Greg, sadly, believes that *money* is the only real motivator. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On 10/10/2015 10:36 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/10/15 9:40 AM, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? Surely you are not alluding to a corporate climate in which saving lives and not losing a ship are less important than an in$urance claim? Why, that sort of thinking is *so* un'Merican. The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew The final decision (and it's outcome) is the responsibility of the ship's captain under maritime law: "The captain is ultimately responsible, under the law, for aspects of operation such as the safe navigation of the ship, its cleanliness and seaworthiness, safe handling of all cargo, management of all personnel, inventory of ship's cash and stores,and maintaining the ship's certificates and documentation." One of the (presumed) lost is a local from Kingston, MA. He was a marine engineer and graduated from Mass Maritime in 1996. He also attended and graduated from the same high school as my older son who knew him well. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:56:37 -0400,
wrote: On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:40:11 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? === Conspiracy theories are always fun to kick around even when they are a bit improbable. When you factor in the reputational risk to the company, the asset loss, and all of the crew and cargo liabilities, it's unlikely they could profit in any way. The captain always has ultimate responsibility for the safety of crew, cargo and ship. In the end it will go down as a bad decision on his part no matter what might have motivated the risk taking. I wasn't talking about them intentionally hazarding their vessel, I was just curious whether it was insured for more than it was worth. TV20 had a guy on who was on that ship for a while and he said it was a rust bucket and they were just painting over the rust.. The cooks area regularly flooded and other things. The loss of power might have been a simple mechanical failure, having nothing to do with the storm, just at the worst possible time. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Make a point or shut your pie hole What part of that was wrong? |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 13:57:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/10/2015 10:36 AM, wrote: On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/10/15 9:40 AM, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? Surely you are not alluding to a corporate climate in which saving lives and not losing a ship are less important than an in$urance claim? Why, that sort of thinking is *so* un'Merican. The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew The final decision (and it's outcome) is the responsibility of the ship's captain under maritime law: "The captain is ultimately responsible, under the law, for aspects of operation such as the safe navigation of the ship, its cleanliness and seaworthiness, safe handling of all cargo, management of all personnel, inventory of ship's cash and stores,and maintaining the ship's certificates and documentation." One of the (presumed) lost is a local from Kingston, MA. He was a marine engineer and graduated from Mass Maritime in 1996. He also attended and graduated from the same high school as my older son who knew him well. Four people from the ship are local (Lee County Florida) |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:05:30 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:56:37 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:40:11 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:58:21 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:29:03 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I know what you're saying Greg. But my thought is that it's possible that it was bad enough but turned REALLY bad before they knew what was happening. Just my uneducated thought. I suppose bravado goes a long way but I am not sure it would have me steering into a storm when there was an easy way to avoid it. === There's more information he http://gcaptain.com/collision-course-with-a-hurricane-how-doomed-el-faro-met-its-end/#.VhgL0SssycM This will be discussed by the professionals for a while. At this time I don't think it's known exactly when they lost power. It may be possible that they caught a really bad break by losing power before they could reroute. In addition to a possible desire to save fuel, there may have been port considerations. Some harbors have limited dockage space and tightly scheduled slip assignments. It could be very expensive if you miss your slot and have to wait for a new one. Don't know if that's an issue in San Juan or not. Not to go all "Harry" on you but it is still just money. How much did losing the ship cost:? Did the company actually make more on the insurance than that old rust bucket was worth? === Conspiracy theories are always fun to kick around even when they are a bit improbable. When you factor in the reputational risk to the company, the asset loss, and all of the crew and cargo liabilities, it's unlikely they could profit in any way. The captain always has ultimate responsibility for the safety of crew, cargo and ship. In the end it will go down as a bad decision on his part no matter what might have motivated the risk taking. I wasn't talking about them intentionally hazarding their vessel, I was just curious whether it was insured for more than it was worth. TV20 had a guy on who was on that ship for a while and he said it was a rust bucket and they were just painting over the rust.. The cooks area regularly flooded and other things. The loss of power might have been a simple mechanical failure, having nothing to do with the storm, just at the worst possible time. === Don't know about the condition of the boat but as a US flagged vessel it has to undergo periodic inspections by USCG. A lot of commercial boats look like rust buckets but they just keep chugging along. I've heard rumblings that the owners are not the most well respected name in the industry but don't know that for sure either. Next time I see my captain friend in Connecticut I'll try to get the low down. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
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Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Make a point or shut your pie hole What part of that was wrong? Jesus. I have to explain? The "crew" doesn't make navigation decisions. It's the Captain with blood on his dead hands. The non-officers in the crew were members of the Seafarers Union, and don't engage in ship navigation. What's this trickle-down bull****? These guys are paid a monthly salary. They don't have ****ing profit-sharing. Relax, Kevin! |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:17:55 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Make a point or shut your pie hole What part of that was wrong? Jesus. I have to explain? The "crew" doesn't make navigation decisions. It's the Captain with blood on his dead hands. The non-officers in the crew were members of the Seafarers Union, and don't engage in ship navigation. What's this trickle-down bull****? These guys are paid a monthly salary. They don't have ****ing profit-sharing. The senior members of the crew will have some input into the decision making process and I bet there is a bonus program for on time performance. I don't have any experience with cargo ships but I know shrimp boat captains and they will listen to advice from their crews. I have also been on coast guard ships and I know the captain will seek the advice of the other officers. They all get input from the crew. He does make the final decision himself but it is not in a vacuum. |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and'Trusted' Mariner
On 10/10/2015 10:17 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Make a point or shut your pie hole What part of that was wrong? Jesus. I have to explain? The "crew" doesn't make navigation decisions. It's the Captain with blood on his dead hands. The non-officers in the crew were members of the Seafarers Union, and don't engage in ship navigation. What's this trickle-down bull****? These guys are paid a monthly salary. They don't have ****ing profit-sharing. There were at least two other college degreed "officers" aboard as members of the crew. Don't know if they are members of the Seafarer's Union or not. That said, in Maritime law and in seafaring tradition the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the ship still resides with the Captain. In fact the responsibility for *everything* related to a ship's operations, including navigation, resides with the Captain. There is no passing of the buck. US Navy ships have officers who serve as the ship's navigator however it's the Captain who loses his command if the ship runs aground, is involved in a collision or is otherwise imperiled unnecessarily . |
Captain of Ill-Fated El Faro Described as 'Experienced' and 'Trusted' Mariner
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 00:51:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/10/2015 10:17 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: The fact still remains that the final decision was up to the captain and the crew. They had a simple bail out option of sailing west around the storm but, as Wayne pointed out, they may have had a problem of when dockage was going to be available in San Juan. Ships are not making any money when they are sitting at anchor outside a port and I assume that loss trickles down to the lowliest oiler in the engine room. I am sure the decision to press on was made by the majority of the crew You're nuts. Make a point or shut your pie hole What part of that was wrong? Jesus. I have to explain? The "crew" doesn't make navigation decisions. It's the Captain with blood on his dead hands. The non-officers in the crew were members of the Seafarers Union, and don't engage in ship navigation. What's this trickle-down bull****? These guys are paid a monthly salary. They don't have ****ing profit-sharing. There were at least two other college degreed "officers" aboard as members of the crew. Don't know if they are members of the Seafarer's Union or not. That said, in Maritime law and in seafaring tradition the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the ship still resides with the Captain. In fact the responsibility for *everything* related to a ship's operations, including navigation, resides with the Captain. There is no passing of the buck. US Navy ships have officers who serve as the ship's navigator however it's the Captain who loses his command if the ship runs aground, is involved in a collision or is otherwise imperiled unnecessarily . You also have to remember, this is not a pirate ship. If the crew says "we ain't going" the penalty is being fired and dropped off at the next port. They can't be made to walk the plank. You union guys would call it a strike. |
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