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On mass shootings... an answer
On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 17:33:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: http://mic.com/articles/123049/19-years-after-passing-strict-gun-control-laws-here-s-what-happened-in-australia The thing they avoid saying is it only caused a momentary blip in the murder rate but the overall slope did not change much. People just found other ways to kill their fellow man. Murders were going down and the slope pretty much remained the same when viewed year to year. They are going down here too, in spite of what CNN would have us believe. |
On mass shootings...
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On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:03:57 -0400, John H.
wrote: The other part of the drill should be to scatter. Create a situation where he is always surrounded, Once you clump up, it is easy to shoot a lot of people without having to really look around, John probably has the army term for that. 'Mobile Defense' - the plan for holding back the Soviets when they attempted to come through the Fulda Gap. I was referring more to the infantry principle of not bunching up so that one grenade or mortar round would get everyone. |
On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
The Johnny spews..
"One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote:
The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? |
On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are things that can be down that will help in that direction. === Maybe but it apparently hasn't done much to deter you. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:
That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 12:35:14 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:
The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Nah. This was usually in garrison with a bunch of us standing around bull****ting. Invariably some NCO would come by and put the words on us. -- Ban idiots, not guns! |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 3:44:43 PM UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. What's your advice Harry? Don't tell us about the toilet paper part. |
On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or maybe in a lecture hall. The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are things that can be down that will help in that direction. Has your wife tried to get a restraining order to relieve you of your firearms yet? You seem to fit the bill of the latest shooter quite well. -- Ban idiots, not guns! |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/2015 5:05 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or maybe in a lecture hall. Maybe that is something they should work on. I think you are just underestimating what people can do Passengers fighting back has more to do with stopping hijacking than anything TSA is doing. There still seems to be no problem getting a gun on a plane but I doubt you could take an airliner with an uzi today. People understand this is not going to be a trip to Cuba. This guy plans on killing everyone. The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are things that can be down that will help in that direction. That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. "Hey Joe, what's that there you're packin'?" "War and Peace" ... you? "Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Light weight but packs a punch". |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/15 6:00 PM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or maybe in a lecture hall. The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are things that can be down that will help in that direction. Has your wife tried to get a restraining order to relieve you of your firearms yet? You seem to fit the bill of the latest shooter quite well. -- Ban idiots, not guns! No, Johnnymop. Unlike you, I'm not a ****ed off, old, crazy, semi-crippled, half blind, deaf, toothless & racist white dude with a chip on my shoulder. You must be some sight at the range, with your seeing-eye grandkid and your Mosin. What do they do, spin you around three times and point you at the targets? |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic. Even has a 3D printed plastic spring. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic. Here's a picture of it. 16 parts, 15 of which are all 3D printed plastic. Only the hardware store variety nail that is used as the firing pin is not printed or plastic. http://tinyurl.com/p3vcfxj |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:52 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote: In article , says... That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. What's your hurry? I thought gun deaths numbers are declining. They are declining and mass shootings are a very small fraction of that. I am just trying to make the idea less appealing to the losers who think it is the way to get some momentary glory. If CNN had pictures of a few shooters who were beaten to death by their would be victims before their spree went very far, these assholes might find another way to make their mark on the world. Something like this http://gfretwell.com/ftp/stoner.wmv |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:57:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/5/2015 4:46 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? It sounds like a great plan but it's something you would only see in the movies. Events are happening quickly, the victims are unarmed civilians and they don't have the benefit of practice drills to condition themselves to the sound of flying bullets whizzing their heads as they look for the book they are supposed to chuck at the shooter. In short, they are terrified and the instinct is to cover your head and duck. There might be one or two, like the ex-military guy who tried to go after the shooter (and got shot 7 times in the process) but for the most part the victims are not in any way prepared. The situation in the airplane over Pennsylvania on 9/11 was totally different. Nobody was shooting and the people that rushed the hijackers knew what was happening (received cell phone calls about the the Twin Towers). They had time to converse and come up with a plan among themselves knowing there weren't any other options. Nobody has told people what to do. The whole philosophy comes from robbery advice. Cooperate, give up your stuff and maybe you will be OK. This is a totally different thing. Certainly if you can hide, do it but if you have a plan when you get caught, you have a lot better chance than simply waiting to be shot. It is really pretty simple, scatter and throw anything you can pick up. The guy might just try another room. If nothing else, he will always be trying to look over his shoulder instead of having everyone lined up right in front of him. If you ever had a teenager, you know they are familiar with throwing stuff when they get mad. Why not just teach this? What do you have to lose? I think you and Harry would be surprised at how much aggression is inside kids these days and all you have to do is bring it out. Use the power of the mob! |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:03:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/5/2015 5:05 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote: The Johnny spews.. "One round'll getcha all." Heard that a bunch of times!" Really...did you ever learn your lessons? Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much happy horse****. When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot, why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the room, don't let him. These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing else, it is harder to hit a moving target. I would rather die fighting than praying or crying. I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the chaos and disrupt his plan. Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can do"? I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or maybe in a lecture hall. Maybe that is something they should work on. I think you are just underestimating what people can do Passengers fighting back has more to do with stopping hijacking than anything TSA is doing. There still seems to be no problem getting a gun on a plane but I doubt you could take an airliner with an uzi today. People understand this is not going to be a trip to Cuba. This guy plans on killing everyone. The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are things that can be down that will help in that direction. That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. "Hey Joe, what's that there you're packin'?" "War and Peace" ... you? "Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Light weight but packs a punch". Way back when I started this, I suggested just putting some missiles in the room although I bet if you looked around you would see plenty right there. I suggested if you got a lap top charger swinging in a 3' cord and let it go, you would generate a whole lot of foot pounds on the terminal end. One of those whizzes by your head and you would be ducking at everything else. I am sure guys trained in tactics could do a better job than the spit balling I am doing here but the objective is to make these kind of places harder targets than they are now. That would be very easy if the current plan is to just cooperate until everyone is dead. Simply teaching people to scatter instead of allowing themselves to be bunched up is a start. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:32:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic. I saw that and I saw him fire a shot out of it but I bet up around round 2 or 3 it is a musket and after that it is potentiality a grenade. (even with a relatively wimpy round like the .380 this gun shoots) Barrel erosion will be a serious problem, even in a single shot gun like this. To make a real gun, you need a steel barrel, particularly an "automatic" weapon like Wayne described. The physics of ejecting a round and loading another one requires some mass too. I made single shot "zip guns" when I was about 12-13 but I would not try to make anything that was a repeater. You can make a very serviceable single shot 12 gauge from stuff you get at Home Depot. The best pipe is actually from the "monkey bars" down at the grade school. You will have to trick someone into threading it tho. ;-) |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400,
wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On 10/5/15 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. Were you a Shark or a Jet? |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 21:51:37 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. === Sounds like you're in the same "lucky to have survived childhood" category that I was. Nowadays you also have to make a video of it to truly qualify as a stupid kid trick. It's fairly easy to improvise a crude milling machine if you have some woodworking tools, small grinding wheels, cross slide vice, etc. I have no idea how to make a rifled barrel but it's not really necessary for short range. There's probably something on YouTube however. |
On mass shootings... an answer
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On mass shootings... an answer
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. Print up the model and lost wax cast in metal. You could even do the barrel. Look at the investment cast golf club heads. |
On mass shootings... an answer
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. My dad owned a major machine shop. We made a few breech loading cannons, mostly Jetex fuses through the drilled out bolt. Would put a 5/16 ball bearing pretty much through a 4x4. |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:01:08 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/5/15 9:51 PM, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. Were you a Shark or a Jet? When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your last dying day ... ;-) All I can come up with at 0045 Sort of "Souf eese Story". |
On mass shootings... an answer
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 23:01:06 -0400,
wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 21:51:37 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. === Sounds like you're in the same "lucky to have survived childhood" category that I was. Nowadays you also have to make a video of it to truly qualify as a stupid kid trick. It's fairly easy to improvise a crude milling machine if you have some woodworking tools, small grinding wheels, cross slide vice, etc. I have no idea how to make a rifled barrel but it's not really necessary for short range. There's probably something on YouTube however. The traditional machine (18th century) was just a scraper and a jig to keep the twist consistent but it was usually just 2 lands and 2 grooves. If I was doing it I would try to scavenge a barrel or just buy a replacement barrel from a gun parts place. Like I said earlier, most of the parts in a gun are available without being serialized and tracked. That guy in Idaho was only casting and polishing the AR receivers and buying everything else online. |
Blowing stuff up, (was mass shooter)
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:17:53 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. My dad owned a major machine shop. We made a few breech loading cannons, mostly Jetex fuses through the drilled out bolt. Would put a 5/16 ball bearing pretty much through a 4x4. I still have my cannon. It was a souvenirs deal with a cast iron base and a solid brass barrel. I drilled it out to a clean 1/4", put a sling shot ball in it with a little bit of paper towel wadding and use the material from kitchen match heads for powder. You just broke the white tip of a kitchen match off in the touch hole (before you load it) and touched it off like the old style cannons with one of those long fire place matches. I am not sure about a 2x4 but it would go through 1" (3/4) white pine. I saw it in the garage the other day in a drawer with some of my other dangerous old stuff. Did anyone else have a Henleys formulas book? I had the old red one until it fell apart and I found a reprint with a black cover some time in the early 70s. Screw Tropic of Cancer, That was something that should have been banned. I am surprised I am still alive, Berges blasting powder was neat tho. (potassium chlorate, potassium chromate, sugar and a pinch of wax). Potassium chromate and sulfur (AKA fulminating powder) is what goes in "torpedoes". Those things you thrown and they explode. Just use a few chunks of fish tank gravel, a pinch of the powder and wrap it in paper mache' When it dries out, you got ya sumpin. The potassium chlorate is the only one that is hard to by but our chemistry teacher had an account at Fischer Chemical and I used to help him out, picking up a few things for him. Everything was cash in those days so I just added a bottle to the order ;-) I still may have a little in that drawer. I think there is some zinc powder in there too. Great rocket fuel when mixed with sulfur but potassium nitrate and sugar works too. You have to melt that and it is a little scary the first time you do it ..Rocket motors are co2 cylinders drilled out to 1/4" and you put them in a Bering cigar tube. Shoot them out of a 1" pipe and say goodbye. I don't think we ever found one. I never had much luck with the gun cotton and I was smart enough not to try nitroglycerine |
Blowing stuff up, (was mass shooter)
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:17:53 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote: wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. My dad owned a major machine shop. We made a few breech loading cannons, mostly Jetex fuses through the drilled out bolt. Would put a 5/16 ball bearing pretty much through a 4x4. I still have my cannon. It was a souvenirs deal with a cast iron base and a solid brass barrel. I drilled it out to a clean 1/4", put a sling shot ball in it with a little bit of paper towel wadding and use the material from kitchen match heads for powder. You just broke the white tip of a kitchen match off in the touch hole (before you load it) and touched it off like the old style cannons with one of those long fire place matches. I am not sure about a 2x4 but it would go through 1" (3/4) white pine. I saw it in the garage the other day in a drawer with some of my other dangerous old stuff. Did anyone else have a Henleys formulas book? I had the old red one until it fell apart and I found a reprint with a black cover some time in the early 70s. Screw Tropic of Cancer, That was something that should have been banned. I am surprised I am still alive, Berges blasting powder was neat tho. (potassium chlorate, potassium chromate, sugar and a pinch of wax). Potassium chromate and sulfur (AKA fulminating powder) is what goes in "torpedoes". Those things you thrown and they explode. Just use a few chunks of fish tank gravel, a pinch of the powder and wrap it in paper mache' When it dries out, you got ya sumpin. The potassium chlorate is the only one that is hard to by but our chemistry teacher had an account at Fischer Chemical and I used to help him out, picking up a few things for him. Everything was cash in those days so I just added a bottle to the order ;-) I still may have a little in that drawer. I think there is some zinc powder in there too. Great rocket fuel when mixed with sulfur but potassium nitrate and sugar works too. You have to melt that and it is a little scary the first time you do it .Rocket motors are co2 cylinders drilled out to 1/4" and you put them in a Bering cigar tube. Shoot them out of a 1" pipe and say goodbye. I don't think we ever found one. I never had much luck with the gun cotton and I was smart enough not to try nitroglycerine We made lots of rockets. Zink and sulfur fuel. We used aluminum tubing, and had a pair of pliers the that had a necked down area that made perfect nozzle. Made one about a foot long and 1" diameter. Do not know how far it would have traveled, except it tilted on launch and hit the gutter on a 2 story house a 1/2 block away. Probably better for us to hit a house than a car a block or so away. |
Blowing stuff up, (was mass shooter)
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:17:53 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote: wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote: That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now. There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped making them tomorrow. === Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic weapon on a 3D printer. Control that. As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink". Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts. OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins, extractors, springs and such) === Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers, Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a couple of "how to" videos on YouTube. If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore. I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost as fast as the bullet went out the front. My dad owned a major machine shop. We made a few breech loading cannons, mostly Jetex fuses through the drilled out bolt. Would put a 5/16 ball bearing pretty much through a 4x4. I still have my cannon. It was a souvenirs deal with a cast iron base and a solid brass barrel. I drilled it out to a clean 1/4", put a sling shot ball in it with a little bit of paper towel wadding and use the material from kitchen match heads for powder. You just broke the white tip of a kitchen match off in the touch hole (before you load it) and touched it off like the old style cannons with one of those long fire place matches. I am not sure about a 2x4 but it would go through 1" (3/4) white pine. I saw it in the garage the other day in a drawer with some of my other dangerous old stuff. Did anyone else have a Henleys formulas book? I had the old red one until it fell apart and I found a reprint with a black cover some time in the early 70s. Screw Tropic of Cancer, That was something that should have been banned. I am surprised I am still alive, Berges blasting powder was neat tho. (potassium chlorate, potassium chromate, sugar and a pinch of wax). Potassium chromate and sulfur (AKA fulminating powder) is what goes in "torpedoes". Those things you thrown and they explode. Just use a few chunks of fish tank gravel, a pinch of the powder and wrap it in paper mache' When it dries out, you got ya sumpin. The potassium chlorate is the only one that is hard to by but our chemistry teacher had an account at Fischer Chemical and I used to help him out, picking up a few things for him. Everything was cash in those days so I just added a bottle to the order ;-) I still may have a little in that drawer. I think there is some zinc powder in there too. Great rocket fuel when mixed with sulfur but potassium nitrate and sugar works too. You have to melt that and it is a little scary the first time you do it .Rocket motors are co2 cylinders drilled out to 1/4" and you put them in a Bering cigar tube. Shoot them out of a 1" pipe and say goodbye. I don't think we ever found one. I never had much luck with the gun cotton and I was smart enough not to try nitroglycerine We used gun powder for the cannon. Dad's buddy was the range master for a military range the NG and FBI used, so dad got lots of very cheap ammo. We would disassemble.06 rounds. |
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