Our first boat was a 30 footer. Like you we had been around boats for a long
time but had never owned one.

We did a ton of research before buying, trying to sort out the "bayliner is
crap" sort of advice as well as determining what our needs were (sounds like
you've got the needs part figured out).

I read up a lot on hull design and learned the difference between open water
boats and protected bay boats. And looked around a lot to see what other
people were using and what they seemed to think.

As far as the Bayliner thing goes, there's a lot of Bayliners in my marina
and they seem perfectly fine. We're on the St. Lawrence/1000 Islands area so
none of us are dealing with the type of stuff you would need a Hatteras for.
But it all comes down to your intended use. I'm not familiar with the
boating area you mention so you'll want to see what the other guys are using
and ask them what they think.

Just my 2 bits.



"Diverguy" wrote in message
om...
I've been around boats for a long time because I've been on Dive boats
but have never owned a boat myself and have never really operated them
myself. I would like to get a boat that my family of 4 can go out
from Orange County to Catalina for the weekend (23 miles). I would
also like to go out and go diving with a few people. I don't plan on
staying on the boat for more than 1 or two nights. Being my first
boat, I would like to get a used one to help reduce the cost. My
thoughts are to get a 26-28ft with a cabin. First, am I crazy for
getting this size boat as my first one? Also, I was looking at the
Bayliner because the cost is a lot lower than others. The bad news is
that I see a lot of negative feedback for Bayliner boats. I'm looking
for a boat that is seaworthy, dependable, etc. but I don't need the
fancy interior stuff like teak, etc. Any recommendations would be
great. Please email mail in addition to posting on the newsgroup
). Thanks.

Paul, do you know if the state's pulling in the docks yet for the launches
at lakes like Black Lake? I'm salivating for one last trip up that way....

Gee I don't know sorry. I'm on the Canadian side, I'm guessing you're on the
'murican side?

I'd give my left arm for one more cruise too. The trees are supposed to be
spectacular down there right now.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Paul, do you know if the state's pulling in the docks yet for the launches
at lakes like Black Lake? I'm salivating for one last trip up that way....

Yeah...'murican, in Rochester. The twits are pulling the docks at some of
the Finger Lakes already. Nobody told them there's another month to bass
season, and that the pike and walleye are going friggin' bonkers. We can
still get our boats in the water, but it requires hip waders.

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
Gee I don't know sorry. I'm on the Canadian side, I'm guessing you're on
the
'murican side?

I'd give my left arm for one more cruise too. The trees are supposed to be
spectacular down there right now.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Paul, do you know if the state's pulling in the docks yet for the
launches
at lakes like Black Lake? I'm salivating for one last trip up that
way....

Don't be afraid of a 28-footer as a"first boat." The learning curve for
handling a 28 footer isn't really any longer than for a 21 or 22 footer, and in
a lot of ways the greater mass of a larger boat helps promote stability.

The brand name of the boat you select will be less important than the design
characteristics. Bayliner probably builds both suitable and unsuitable boats
for your purpose....but if you're going to be somewhere under 30-feet size wise
you might want to consider boats that are designed for offshore sport fishing
conditions. In the NW, boats like C-Dory, Skagit Orca and a few other brands
would be worthy of investigation and consideration.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Don't be afraid of a 28-footer as a"first boat." The learning curve for
handling a 28 footer isn't really any longer than for a 21 or 22 footer,
and in
a lot of ways the greater mass of a larger boat helps promote stability.

The brand name of the boat you select will be less important than the
design
characteristics. Bayliner probably builds both suitable and unsuitable
boats
for your purpose....but if you're going to be somewhere under 30-feet size
wise
you might want to consider boats that are designed for offshore sport
fishing
conditions. In the NW, boats like C-Dory, Skagit Orca and a few other
brands
would be worthy of investigation and consideration.



Check with the people on the All Coast Board. They fish and boat the area.
One of the guys has a 24' Sportcraft for sale. Never ridden on one, but do
like the lines.
http://www.allcoastsportfishing.com/...&conf=mainconf
Bill

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Don't be afraid of a 28-footer as a"first boat." The learning curve for
handling a 28 footer isn't really any longer than for a 21 or 22 footer,
and in
a lot of ways the greater mass of a larger boat helps promote stability.

The brand name of the boat you select will be less important than the
design
characteristics. Bayliner probably builds both suitable and unsuitable
boats
for your purpose....but if you're going to be somewhere under 30-feet size
wise
you might want to consider boats that are designed for offshore sport
fishing
conditions. In the NW, boats like C-Dory, Skagit Orca and a few other
brands
would be worthy of investigation and consideration.



C-Dory is a nice boat but not offshore. The bottom is too flat causing a
rough ride and instability with a following sea. Been there, done that!
Gordon

C-Dory is a nice boat but not offshore. The bottom is too flat causing a
rough ride and instability with a following sea. Been there, done that!
Gordon



I'm doing a boat review on a 25' C-Dory next Monday. (Wanted to get something
done about a vessel suitable for blackmouth fishing, since in the magazine biz
it's already December). This will be my first experience actually underway on
one of these, although I did an article on the factory about two years ago.. It
seems we agree that they are "nice boats", hopefully there will be enough snot
to plow through next week that I'll be able to either agree or disagree with
your handling assessment. :-)

Personally, I think that a 28 foot stern drive, single motor boat is the
toughest "to control" boat out there. Anything larger, you'd almost have to
go with twin screws. Anything smaller, you could "man handle" your way
through some mistakes with the help of 2 deck mates. Just thinking about
backing into a tight slip on a windy fall day on a 28' single screw makes me
wince . . .

J


10/21/03 5:55 PM

Don't be afraid of a 28-footer as a"first boat." The learning curve for
handling a 28 footer isn't really any longer than for a 21 or 22 footer, and
in
a lot of ways the greater mass of a larger boat helps promote stability.

The brand name of the boat you select will be less important than the design
characteristics. Bayliner probably builds both suitable and unsuitable boats
for your purpose....but if you're going to be somewhere under 30-feet size
wise
you might want to consider boats that are designed for offshore sport fishing
conditions. In the NW, boats like C-Dory, Skagit Orca and a few other brands
would be worthy of investigation and consideration.

Personally, I think that a 28 foot stern drive, single motor boat is the
toughest "to control" boat out there. Anything larger, you'd almost have to
go with twin screws. Anything smaller, you could "man handle" your way
through some mistakes with the help of 2 deck mates. Just thinking about
backing into a tight slip on a windy fall day on a 28' single screw makes me
wince . .

It's easy to see why you would be wincing.

I wouldn't "back" my 36-foot, single screw boat into a tight slip on a windy
day. Not without using a spring line. Unless there's some reason to be stern-to
at the central float, more single screw boaters approach the dock like most
sailors, bow first. A head-in docking is easily accomplished with a single
screw boat in any type of conditions one would ever consider venturing out in.
(Personal worst conditions
I have ever docked my single screw, non-bowthruster, vessel? Over 40-knots
sustained with gusts over 50. It wasn't pretty, but we made it work.)

When conditions are fairly benign, it's easy to back into a slip with a single.
If your two deck mates can't fend off a 28-footer, there is no reason to expect
a magical difference with a 23 or 24-footer.
Unless there's a *major* screwup underway, one person is usually enough to make
minor manual adjustments on vessels of 35-40 feet.

With a single screw boat, you *must* take
the natural environment into account. Wind and current conditions will have a
huge effect on docking, as does what I call the "inside/outside" factor.

If the wind or current is up, my experience
says that the best approach is upwind, or upstream. You can bring out a few
more horses to make headway, but once you're "sailing" downwind or downstream
you are fairly well out of control.

The inside/outside factor: There seems to be a correlation between tight berths
and small fairways. Where you find one, you often encounter the other. When
making a turn from the fairway into a slip, try to approach from the angle that
will allow the side of the boat that needs to be next to the finger float to be
on the "outside" edge of the turn. IOW, turn to starboard to put the port side
against the pier, and turn to port to dock the starboard side. You want to have
fits? Just try to dock the "inside" edge. It can be done, but it's about three
times as difficult and why mess with it?

Then again there are times when the inside/outside factor and the wind or
current are contradictory. But not all that often...and if the wind or current
is extreme
that is the dominant variable IMO.

(I've pulled into guest moorage at marinas
and had twin screw boaters ask, "Why did you go past the slip and then do a 180
in the fairway and come at it from the other
side?" .....If you can solve the problem with
horsepower you don't learn to solve it with
strategy.)

The major difference between handling a single screw and twin screws is that
with a single you must plan a little more carefully and "think" your way to the
dock before you make your approach. Twin screws, you just sort of drive like a
bulldozer. :-)