Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

You only have a tiny audience of us who appreciate boating material. Johnny and his gang of Moppetts might not like the interruption of their usual agenda.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 4:35:04 AM UTC-7, Wayne. B wrote:
Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

Im not surprised it's damaged. but I am surprised how they hold up anyhow.. That's gotta be a tough deal. climbing on top of the ices and shattering it as it goes.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

What scares me is the untold number of nuclear submarines roaming around up there. I hope they have better charts.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 05:03:57 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

You only have a tiny audience of us who appreciate boating material. Johnny and his gang of Moppetts might not like the interruption of their usual agenda.

===

I think there are more boaters here than you realize. The problem is
that the atmosphere has become toxic and people are reluctant to talk
about their boats and boating activities. That's too bad but I try to
chip in with some on topic material once in a while. If everyone did
that, and also adopted a thicker skin regarding snide remarks, we
could eventually change the tone of the group.

Hope you're having a good summer and getting some use out of your
boat.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 05:32:52 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 4:35:04 AM UTC-7, Wayne. B wrote:
Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

Im not surprised it's damaged. but I am surprised how they hold up anyhow.. That's gotta be a tough deal. climbing on top of the ices and shattering it as it goes.

===

Bashing ice is what they're built for. It appears that this one may
have found a rock from the sound of it. Fortunately the gash was in a
ballast tank and not the actual bottom of the boat. That may be a
design feature but I don't really know.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Yes they're built to take it. But eventually they might hit something and that's true. Or over time it could have developed a stress fatigue in the hull. Beats me Wayne, but yes the are built to take a pounding, but eventually..,

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


=============================================== =

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


============================================== ==

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

===

The original news article said "uncharted reef." A reef can be coral,
rock, oyster shells or whatever. In Maine they call them ledges and
are usually rock. In Florida they are usually sand, mud or oysters
and are usually called bars or banks.

The guys who originally explored Florida Bay north of the Keys had an
interesting sense of humor. There is one shoal called First National
Bank. It is fairly close to a small island called Dildo Key. :-)

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:46:36 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


=============================================== =

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

===

The original news article said "uncharted reef." A reef can be coral,
rock, oyster shells or whatever. In Maine they call them ledges and
are usually rock. In Florida they are usually sand, mud or oysters
and are usually called bars or banks.

The guys who originally explored Florida Bay north of the Keys had an
interesting sense of humor. There is one shoal called First National
Bank. It is fairly close to a small island called Dildo Key. :-)

Didn't see the 'reef' part.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/2015 10:46 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

===

The original news article said "uncharted reef." A reef can be coral,
rock, oyster shells or whatever. In Maine they call them ledges and
are usually rock. In Florida they are usually sand, mud or oysters
and are usually called bars or banks.

The guys who originally explored Florida Bay north of the Keys had an
interesting sense of humor. There is one shoal called First National
Bank. It is fairly close to a small island called Dildo Key. :-)



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
.... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/15 11:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2015 10:46 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo



================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something
that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

===

The original news article said "uncharted reef." A reef can be coral,
rock, oyster shells or whatever. In Maine they call them ledges and
are usually rock. In Florida they are usually sand, mud or oysters
and are usually called bars or banks.

The guys who originally explored Florida Bay north of the Keys had an
interesting sense of humor. There is one shoal called First National
Bank. It is fairly close to a small island called Dildo Key. :-)



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.


There's a nifty tombolo in the area in Connecticut where we used to race
BlueJays when I was a kid. Once in a while, a newbie to the area would
smack his boat into it at half tide. Perhaps W'hine will similarly find
it someday. :)

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/15 11:08 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

I didn't see much sand in Alaska. The beaches seem to be volcanic
rock, rounded by the surf. It is that black stuff you see around
gardens and such in the lower 48. I saw a lot of the same rock in New
Zealand
They also have regular old granite looking stuff.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Denali%20trail.jpg

Ice Breakers is a part of the CG that I had absolutely zero interest
in but I still ended up in some pretty cold water in the North
Atlantic. Fortunately we also went south occasionally ;-)


I appreciate the fact that you helped defend our coastlines from those
North Vietnamese submarines... :)

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.


I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass hull.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2015 10:46 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo



================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something
that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

===

The original news article said "uncharted reef." A reef can be coral,
rock, oyster shells or whatever. In Maine they call them ledges and
are usually rock. In Florida they are usually sand, mud or oysters
and are usually called bars or banks.

The guys who originally explored Florida Bay north of the Keys had an
interesting sense of humor. There is one shoal called First National
Bank. It is fairly close to a small island called Dildo Key. :-)



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.


There's a nifty tombolo in the area in Connecticut where we used to race
BlueJays when I was a kid. Once in a while, a newbie to the area would
smack his boat into it at half tide. Perhaps W'hine will similarly find it someday. :)

Just got back from boating East coast Vancouver Island. Heard of at least
2 boats connecting with rocks while monitoring the VHF. At least one
total. There were lots of shoals and rocks around the islands. Luckily I
draw about 12" so not as endangered.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

I didn't see much sand in Alaska. The beaches seem to be volcanic
rock, rounded by the surf. It is that black stuff you see around
gardens and such in the lower 48. I saw a lot of the same rock in New
Zealand
They also have regular old granite looking stuff.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Denali%20trail.jpg

Ice Breakers is a part of the CG that I had absolutely zero interest
in but I still ended up in some pretty cold water in the North
Atlantic. Fortunately we also went south occasionally ;-)

My neighbors in the early 70's kids joined the CG. Ended up on icebreaker.
Said using steam hoses to melt ice was interesting. Not fun. Would end
up with huge amounts of ice on the rails.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.

Depends on the boat. Mine is 3/16 bottom, and does have some dents. The
bigger boats are 1/4" and take lots of abuse. Worse is like in the Rogue
River, as the rock shelves are sharp, so slice the boat.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:48:03 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:36:04 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:35:00 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Previously uncharted reef in Artic Ocean may be to blame.

http://gcaptain.com/shell-icebreaker-msv-fennica-damaged-in-alaska-report/#.VaTydPkuPOo


================================================

We now return you to the Harry Krause political crap programming.

When I think of a shoal, I think of sand or gravel. Not something that would put a
gash in an icebreaker's hull.

Weird. Wonder if it might have scraped a metal protrusion on a pier.

I didn't see much sand in Alaska. The beaches seem to be volcanic
rock, rounded by the surf. It is that black stuff you see around
gardens and such in the lower 48. I saw a lot of the same rock in New
Zealand
They also have regular old granite looking stuff.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Denali%20trail.jpg

Ice Breakers is a part of the CG that I had absolutely zero interest
in but I still ended up in some pretty cold water in the North
Atlantic. Fortunately we also went south occasionally ;-)

My neighbors in the early 70's kids joined the CG. Ended up on icebreaker.
Said using steam hoses to melt ice was interesting. Not fun. Would end
up with huge amounts of ice on the rails.

We chipped a bit of ice in the North Atlantic. We were using chipping
hammers. It was mostly to clear the ladders and ordinance but there
was a little concern about being top heavy. That was mostly unfounded
from what the old timers said. We were running the heat pretty good so
most of the ship was clear but you did accumulate a lot of ice on
things like ladders that stand away from the hull and superstructure.
They cleared the "tubs" just to deal with ice that might fall on the
decks and kill someone walking under it. Usually one good whack from
above and the whole thing would fall.

I met a guy years ago who worked the King Crab boats. He said the last
trip he would ever go on, they had 18" of ice on 1" stainless rails. They
were listing 40 degrees, and dumped the crab pots. They never saw their
sister ship again. I guess 0 degree or less temps and very high winds are
deadly.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:48:03 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.

Depends on the boat. Mine is 3/16 bottom, and does have some dents. The
bigger boats are 1/4" and take lots of abuse. Worse is like in the Rogue
River, as the rock shelves are sharp, so slice the boat.

That is even thicker than I was guessing by tapping on the hull. I
know it was a real heavy tin boat.

Some of the boats that run really shallow, nasty waters add a steel plate
to part of the bottom. Some add UHMW sheets.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.


I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass hull.


Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.



Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't
know. Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.


I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass hull.


Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.



Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't know.
Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.

Aluminum will rip open, but handles rounded object strikes a lot better
than fiberglass. May bend, and not be a very functional boat afterwards,
but will keep the water outside better.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:31:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:




Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.

That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.


I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.


I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass hull.


Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.



Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't
know. Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.


===

Aluminum definitley does better in what I would call "blunt force
trauma" because it bends but does not shatter and splinter the way
fiberglass does. It can also be pounded back out with fairly low
effort and can be made to look like new when faired and painted. I
used to race on a 50 ft aluminum sloop back in the mid 90s that was in
a major collision and sustained a very large dent. It took less than
a week to do the repair and it was impossible to tell where the damage
had been.

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:31:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas' downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.
That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.

I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.

I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass hull.

Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.


Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't
know. Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.

===

Aluminum definitley does better in what I would call "blunt force
trauma" because it bends but does not shatter and splinter the way
fiberglass does. It can also be pounded back out with fairly low
effort and can be made to look like new when faired and painted. I
used to race on a 50 ft aluminum sloop back in the mid 90s that was in
a major collision and sustained a very large dent. It took less than
a week to do the repair and it was impossible to tell where the damage
had been.

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.


Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On 7/15/2015 7:45 PM, Alex wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:31:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas'
downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place
though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very
careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something
foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.
That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin boats and
jet drives are very popular.

I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can take.

I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass
hull.

Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.


Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't
know. Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.

===

Aluminum definitley does better in what I would call "blunt force
trauma" because it bends but does not shatter and splinter the way
fiberglass does. It can also be pounded back out with fairly low
effort and can be made to look like new when faired and painted. I
used to race on a 50 ft aluminum sloop back in the mid 90s that was in
a major collision and sustained a very large dent. It took less than
a week to do the repair and it was impossible to tell where the damage
had been.

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.


Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.


Well, you can always use "Flexseal" as seen on TV. :-)

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:45:21 -0400, Alex wrote:

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.


Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.

===

I'm having trouble understanding your assertion about aluminum welds.
Aluminum boats are welded at the factory during their original
construction and are very strong and durable. A properly performed
repair weld will be just as good as the originals.

Were you referring to the skill level required to do a proper weld?

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/15/2015 7:45 PM, Alex wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:31:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/14/2015 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:41:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 7/14/2015 11:50 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/14/15 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:05:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



Thankfully the ones encountered on the ICW from the Carolinas'
downward
are nice soft sand. Don't ask how I know. There's one place
though
... called "the Rock Pile" ... where you have to be very
careful. When
we went through heading south there was a beautiful 50 something
foot
Sportsfish up on the bank with a huge hole in it's hull.
That is true until you get to the keys. Then you start seeing
those
coral heads that may be a couple feet underwater. They will do
a job
on shafts struts and wheels.
Up in Alaska it seems everything is rock of some kind. Tin
boats and
jet drives are very popular.

I've often wondered how much bottom abuse those alum boats can
take.

I doubt they can take much. Hull is pretty thin. I think the
idea is
that they are much easier to repair than an inch thick fiberglass
hull.

Nope, they dent instead of cracking. (according to the guys who have
them) That is particularly true in cold water.
I have banged my pontoons pretty hard too. I just have a few dents to
show for it. Mine are 0.10 with 0.125 on the nose cone.
They just laugh at oysters.


Think aluminum would do as well on rocks or a coral reef? I don't
know. Of course fiberglass doesn't do well either.

===

Aluminum definitley does better in what I would call "blunt force
trauma" because it bends but does not shatter and splinter the way
fiberglass does. It can also be pounded back out with fairly low
effort and can be made to look like new when faired and painted. I
used to race on a 50 ft aluminum sloop back in the mid 90s that was in
a major collision and sustained a very large dent. It took less than
a week to do the repair and it was impossible to tell where the damage
had been.

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.


Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.


Well, you can always use "Flexseal" as seen on TV. :-)


Sure. Repair it with some ordinary window screen and spray it on!

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:45:21 -0400, Alex wrote:

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.

Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.
===

I'm having trouble understanding your assertion about aluminum welds.
Aluminum boats are welded at the factory during their original
construction and are very strong and durable. A properly performed
repair weld will be just as good as the originals.

Were you referring to the skill level required to do a proper weld?

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

Alex wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:45:21 -0400, Alex wrote:

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.

Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.
===

I'm having trouble understanding your assertion about aluminum welds.
Aluminum boats are welded at the factory during their original
construction and are very strong and durable. A properly performed
repair weld will be just as good as the originals.

Were you referring to the skill level required to do a proper weld?

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in aluminum.

I figure the welds are closer to 75-80%+ not 50%. Look at
roguejetboats.com or precisionweldboats.com he they may have build
pictures. Look for Bentz boats. They build most of the CG certified jet
tour boats in the US. Lots of bracing inside the hull. The boats I know
with huge damage, some that sunk, did not sink from broken welds. Ripped
open on sharp rocks or a strike in the intake or edge of transom area
ripping large leaks in the bottom.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

In article ,
says...

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:45:21 -0400, Alex wrote:

Rocks and coral reefs are problematic because of the sharp edges that
can slice open aluminum but usually with less overall damage than
fiberglass, and much easier to repair.

Aluminum welds are not very forgiving so the repairs will never be as
good as the original.
===

I'm having trouble understanding your assertion about aluminum welds.
Aluminum boats are welded at the factory during their original
construction and are very strong and durable. A properly performed
repair weld will be just as good as the originals.

Were you referring to the skill level required to do a proper weld?

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

This is commonly handled by designing a heavier weld structure, so it
can't be seen as a disadvantage - unless you just don't like aluminum.
http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 18:58:16 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

This is commonly handled by designing a heavier weld structure, so it
can't be seen as a disadvantage - unless you just don't like aluminum.
http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

===

Nice analysis of the design trade offs, thanks. The biggest knock on
aluminum in my opinion is susceptibility to corrosion. It can be
managed but it takes vigilance regarding electrical faults, repairs
and debris in the bilge.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 00:50:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 18:58:16 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

This is commonly handled by designing a heavier weld structure, so it
can't be seen as a disadvantage - unless you just don't like aluminum.
http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

===

Nice analysis of the design trade offs, thanks. The biggest knock on
aluminum in my opinion is susceptibility to corrosion. It can be
managed but it takes vigilance regarding electrical faults, repairs
and debris in the bilge.

I have a 40 year old aluminum boat that lived pretty much all of it's
life in salt water and it is doing OK. It is welded together

Part depends on the alloy. Either 50xx or 60xx for salt. Minimal copper in
the alloy. 60xx is hard to work.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 02:37:40 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 00:50:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 18:58:16 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

This is commonly handled by designing a heavier weld structure, so it
can't be seen as a disadvantage - unless you just don't like aluminum.
http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

===

Nice analysis of the design trade offs, thanks. The biggest knock on
aluminum in my opinion is susceptibility to corrosion. It can be
managed but it takes vigilance regarding electrical faults, repairs
and debris in the bilge.

I have a 40 year old aluminum boat that lived pretty much all of it's
life in salt water and it is doing OK. It is welded together

Part depends on the alloy. Either 50xx or 60xx for salt. Minimal copper in
the alloy. 60xx is hard to work.

Dunno but the TIG guy I have used seemed to be doing OK with it.

The 60xx welds fine. Is hard to form. So your toon's are probably 50xx.
Same as my boat. The jet boats will normally only use 60xx in bottoms.
Not much bending, and tougher to dent.

Arctic Icebreaker Suffers Hull Damage in Alaska
 

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 13:35:43 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 02:37:40 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 00:50:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 18:58:16 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Aluminum welded products will fail at the weld under stress. Welded
aluminum is about 50% weaker than unwelded aluminum. Skill has a lot to
do with it and my info is from a highly skilled welder specializing in
aluminum.

This is commonly handled by designing a heavier weld structure, so it
can't be seen as a disadvantage - unless you just don't like aluminum.
http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

===

Nice analysis of the design trade offs, thanks. The biggest knock on
aluminum in my opinion is susceptibility to corrosion. It can be
managed but it takes vigilance regarding electrical faults, repairs
and debris in the bilge.

I have a 40 year old aluminum boat that lived pretty much all of it's
life in salt water and it is doing OK. It is welded together

Part depends on the alloy. Either 50xx or 60xx for salt. Minimal copper in
the alloy. 60xx is hard to work.

Dunno but the TIG guy I have used seemed to be doing OK with it.

The 60xx welds fine. Is hard to form. So your toon's are probably 50xx.
Same as my boat. The jet boats will normally only use 60xx in bottoms.
Not much bending, and tougher to dent.

===

Don't have welding equipment but I have done some cold bending on
3/16ths 6061 up to about 45 degrees. The slightest imperfection near
the bend line results in a stress crack. It's very strong however.