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Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very
similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
Poquito Loco wrote:
For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use ..223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 === Nice rundown of various info. I'm shocked and appalled however that a learned scholar like yourself, and a self proclaimed journalist, would not credit your sources that you so freely quote. Let me se if I can help. https://www.google.com/#q=Dimensionally%2C+5.56+and+.223+ammo+are+identic al%2C+though+military+5.56++%3Eammo+is+typically+l oaded+to+higher+pressures+and+velocities+than++%3E commercial+ammo+and+may%2C+in+guns+with+extremely+ tight+%22match%22+.223++%3Echambers%2C+be+unsafe+t o+fire. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On 1/29/15 8:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 === Nice rundown of various info. I'm shocked and appalled however that a learned scholar like yourself, and a self proclaimed journalist, would not credit your sources that you so freely quote. Let me se if I can help. https://www.google.com/#q=Dimensionally%2C+5.56+and+.223+ammo+are+identic al%2C+though+military+5.56++%3Eammo+is+typically+l oaded+to+higher+pressures+and+velocities+than++%3E commercial+ammo+and+may%2C+in+guns+with+extremely+ tight+%22match%22+.223++%3Echambers%2C+be+unsafe+t o+fire. Too bad you missed the URL at the bottom of the part I quoted. Of course you did. -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
Someone Else wrote:
Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. Nope. Is a difference in the throat. The 5.56 has a longer throat and the pressure is more even. A 223 has a shorter throat and you will get a pressure spike with nato spec. So you may have casing failures. Blown primer, etc. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 === Nice rundown of various info. I'm shocked and appalled however that a learned scholar like yourself, and a self proclaimed journalist, would not credit your sources that you so freely quote. Let me se if I can help. https://www.google.com/#q=Dimensionally%2C+5.56+and+.223+ammo+are+identic al%2C+though+military+5.56++%3Eammo+is+typically+l oaded+to+higher+pressures+and+velocities+than++%3E commercial+ammo+and+may%2C+in+guns+with+extremely+ tight+%22match%22+.223++%3Echambers%2C+be+unsafe+t o+fire. The URL I provided cites the site, Dimples. -- Sent from my iPhone 6+ |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* Interesting. When you are talking about 7.62 NOTO and 308, the opposite is true SAAMI allows higher pressures in the 308 than NATO allows. I just shoot the .223. The paper targets, soda bottles and gongs don't need higher pressure loads. 😀 -- Sent from my iPhone 6+ |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* Interesting. When you are talking about 7.62 NOTO and 308, the opposite is true SAAMI allows higher pressures in the 308 than NATO allows. May not be that much difference. Military measures pressure at the neck and SAAMI measures mid cartridge. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 Perhaps a re-read of the thread will clue you in. It was humor. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:46:10 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:18:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/29/15 8:03 PM, Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. Gosh, I had no idea you were such an expert in ammo reloading and in shooting prairie doggies. Perhaps a bit of actual expertise might help you: Q. What is the difference between 5.56×45mm and .223 Remington ammo? *Dimensionally, 5.56 and .223 ammo are identical, though military 5.56 ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" .223 chambers, be unsafe to fire.* The chambers for .223 and 5.56 weapons are not the same either. Though the AR15 design provides an extremely strong action, high pressure signs on the brass and primers, extraction failures and cycling problems may be seen when firing hot 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered rifles. Military M16s and AR15s from Colt, Bushmaster, FN, DPMS, and some others, have the M16-spec chamber and should have no trouble firing hot 5.56 ammunition. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more. The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure. Typical Colt Mil-Spec-type markings: C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 Typical Bushmaster markings: B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers. Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers. Armalite typically doesn't mark their barrels. A2 and A4 models had .223 chambers until mid-2001, and have used 5.56 chambers since. The (t) models use .223 match chambers. Rock River Arms uses the Wylde chamber specs on most rifles, and does not mark their barrels. Most other AR manufacturers' barrels are unmarked, and chamber dimensions are unknown. Opinion: In general it is a bad idea to attempt to fire 5.56 rounds (e.g., M193, M855) in .223 chambers, particularly with older rifles. Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind. For more see the SAAMI website ammo warning. 5.56 v. .223 Remington specification. Fact: The different manufacturer's chamber types are listed at length and in great detail at: The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. http://tinyurl.com/lv7hep3 === Nice rundown of various info. I'm shocked and appalled however that a learned scholar like yourself, and a self proclaimed journalist, would not credit your sources that you so freely quote. Let me se if I can help. https://www.google.com/#q=Dimensionally%2C+5.56+and+.223+ammo+are+identic al%2C+though+military+5.56++%3Eammo+is+typically+l oaded+to+higher+pressures+and+velocities+than++%3E commercial+ammo+and+may%2C+in+guns+with+extremely+ tight+%22match%22+.223++%3Echambers%2C+be+unsafe+t o+fire. My goodness. I thought he'd written all that off the top of his head! -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:21:52 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote: Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. I see no reason to buy an AR chanbered in .223. If you get it in 5.56, you can safely shoot both, and there's really no difference in accuracy. Then just buy the ammo that meets your price and perfomance needs. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
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Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On 1/30/15 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:32:44 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 8:59 AM, wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:21:52 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote: Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. I see no reason to buy an AR chanbered in .223. If you get it in 5.56, you can safely shoot both, and there's really no difference in accuracy. Then just buy the ammo that meets your price and perfomance needs. I'm not sure why "sport" shooters who can shoot either .223 or 5.56 bother with the latter. My Colt, along with millions of other ARs, handles either, but I don't buy 5.56. There are plenty of different loads available for either. I'm not sure why a sport shooter that can safely shoot either round would seek out and only purchase .223. What's a 5.56 round going to do for me in casual target shooting? Typically, but not always, the brass case, non-ferrous bullet .223 rounds are a few cents less expensive, probably because the demand is higher and more are produced. -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 11:11:43 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/30/15 11:06 AM, wrote: On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:32:44 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 8:59 AM, wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:21:52 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote: Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem.. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. I see no reason to buy an AR chanbered in .223. If you get it in 5.56, you can safely shoot both, and there's really no difference in accuracy. Then just buy the ammo that meets your price and perfomance needs. I'm not sure why "sport" shooters who can shoot either .223 or 5.56 bother with the latter. My Colt, along with millions of other ARs, handles either, but I don't buy 5.56. There are plenty of different loads available for either. I'm not sure why a sport shooter that can safely shoot either round would seek out and only purchase .223. What's a 5.56 round going to do for me in casual target shooting? Typically, but not always, the brass case, non-ferrous bullet .223 rounds are a few cents less expensive, probably because the demand is higher and more are produced. It's kind of like putting regular gas in a sports car that is setup for high octane. 5.56's typical higher velocity can give you a slightly flatter trajectory. Besides, I'm not seeing any real difference in price when I buy, and you said you don't really keep up with the ammo market anyway. My barrel's twist prefers the 62 grain bullets, so it's usually XM855 for me. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On 1/30/15 2:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 11:11:43 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 11:06 AM, wrote: On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:32:44 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 8:59 AM, wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:21:52 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote: Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. I see no reason to buy an AR chanbered in .223. If you get it in 5.56, you can safely shoot both, and there's really no difference in accuracy. Then just buy the ammo that meets your price and perfomance needs. I'm not sure why "sport" shooters who can shoot either .223 or 5.56 bother with the latter. My Colt, along with millions of other ARs, handles either, but I don't buy 5.56. There are plenty of different loads available for either. I'm not sure why a sport shooter that can safely shoot either round would seek out and only purchase .223. What's a 5.56 round going to do for me in casual target shooting? Typically, but not always, the brass case, non-ferrous bullet .223 rounds are a few cents less expensive, probably because the demand is higher and more are produced. It's kind of like putting regular gas in a sports car that is setup for high octane. 5.56's typical higher velocity can give you a slightly flatter trajectory. Besides, I'm not seeing any real difference in price when I buy, and you said you don't really keep up with the ammo market anyway. My barrel's twist prefers the 62 grain bullets, so it's usually XM855 for me. I'm still shooting the least expensive brass case non-ferrous bullet ammo I can find, until I get my groups down to 1" at 100 yards. Then I might try a more expensive ammo. No sense wasting $$$ on ammo that outdoes my abilities. I'm at 1-1/2" to 1-1/4" at 100 yards, but mostly at the 1-1/2 mark. That means I shot one five shot grouping at 1-1/4". :) -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Funny answer to .223 vs 5.56 question
On 1/30/2015 3:01 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/30/15 2:54 PM, wrote: On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 11:11:43 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 11:06 AM, wrote: On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:32:44 AM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote: On 1/30/15 8:59 AM, wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:21:52 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote: On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 5:17:55 PM UTC-8, Someone Else wrote: Poquito Loco wrote: For a new production AR style rifle the difference between 223 and 5.56 is very similar to buying 12 large eggs versus buying a dozen large eggs. I use Accurate Arms 2230 powder, a mid-range powder charge for 50 gr HP bullets, and shoot that load in 5 different rifles accurately without a problem. I use mixed brass and don't sort headstamps. I make sure to separate range brass (military vs commercial) to ream military primer pockets to remove the crimp. I won't bore you with details about cleaning, tumbling, case length, and trimming brass. EDIT: A chronograph is the only thing that can tell the difference between a 3100 fps or 2900 fps bullet. Neither a target or prairie dog knows the difference. A prairie dog does know the difference between 223 and a 25-06 -- there is less to pickup if you use a 25-06. Makes me want to run right out and get a Mini-14. From what I've read, some barrels can't handle the pressure of the 5.56. I've shot both in a Bushmaster I had, my Steyer, and mini-14. no problems in any of them. I see no reason to buy an AR chanbered in .223. If you get it in 5.56, you can safely shoot both, and there's really no difference in accuracy. Then just buy the ammo that meets your price and perfomance needs. I'm not sure why "sport" shooters who can shoot either .223 or 5.56 bother with the latter. My Colt, along with millions of other ARs, handles either, but I don't buy 5.56. There are plenty of different loads available for either. I'm not sure why a sport shooter that can safely shoot either round would seek out and only purchase .223. What's a 5.56 round going to do for me in casual target shooting? Typically, but not always, the brass case, non-ferrous bullet .223 rounds are a few cents less expensive, probably because the demand is higher and more are produced. It's kind of like putting regular gas in a sports car that is setup for high octane. 5.56's typical higher velocity can give you a slightly flatter trajectory. Besides, I'm not seeing any real difference in price when I buy, and you said you don't really keep up with the ammo market anyway. My barrel's twist prefers the 62 grain bullets, so it's usually XM855 for me. I'm still shooting the least expensive brass case non-ferrous bullet ammo I can find, until I get my groups down to 1" at 100 yards. Then I might try a more expensive ammo. No sense wasting $$$ on ammo that outdoes my abilities. I'm at 1-1/2" to 1-1/4" at 100 yards, but mostly at the 1-1/2 mark. That means I shot one five shot grouping at 1-1/4". :) You're almost good enough to get that hawker job down at the arcade. -- Respectfully submitted by Justan Laugh of the day from Krause "I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here. I've been "born again" as a nice guy." |
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