Stabil again
 

I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.

Stabil again
 

Mr. Luddite

"I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. *It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. *When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. *Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. *The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil. "


My dealer adds Mercury's version of Stabil every November when I have the motor winterized for it's seven month sleep.

Stabil again
 

On 1/26/2015 3:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.


I have run that test (in an uncontrolled situation) and my conclusion is
Stabil does what it's there to do, and without it you will usually have
issues... just my .02.

Stabil again
 

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:08:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.

===

That's good news. A couple of questions:

Did you run the fuel out of the carb before storing?

Did you use non-ethanol fuel?

Stabil again
 

On 1/26/2015 3:32 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:08:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.

I have my generator stored dry. Why save old gas in the first place?
I have 10 gas cans for the boat and when we are talking about a storm
I make sure they are all full. No storm, no problem. I burn it in the
boat pretty fast.
I also have a propane kit but I never installed it. Gas is piped to
the spot where me generator is wired for and I have the right
regulator for the kit.



I was just lazy. The Honda only holds about a gallon of gas. When we
put the pool in 9 years ago the contractors used it all summer, six days
a week and about 6-7 hours a day to power the saw they used to shape and
fit the bluestone around the pool. They used it again for part of the
next summer to finish up. It was a mess when they were
done and I figured it was probably worn out. I just added Stabil,
let it run for about 15 minutes and put it away. Three years ago
I took it out figuring it would never start again without a major
tear down and cleaning but to my surprise it fired up and ran fine
on the 6 year old gas. The gas in it now is 3 years old but it runs
just fine.

My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of
the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring.
I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No
problems with leaks or floats since.

Stabil again
 

On 1/26/2015 3:42 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:08:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.

===

That's good news. A couple of questions:

Did you run the fuel out of the carb before storing?

Did you use non-ethanol fuel?



Answers:

No.
No.

I don't believe in running the carb out of fuel before storage. In my
mind it allows deposits to harden and "varnish" to form.

As I mentioned in another post to Greg, my experience with lawnmower
engines is they almost always have float or carb problems if drained,
even if it was just for the winter months. I just add Stabil, let the
engine run for a while and shut it down. Of course sitting for 6 years
is extreme but the little Honda fired up and ran fine on the 6 year old
gas.

I've never had any work done on the Honda. I changed the oil once (as
recommended after break-in). Haven't changed it since and I've never
stored it dry (no gas). I check the oil level occasionally and it's
fine. The Hondas automatically shut down if the oil level is low anyway.

Stabil again
 

On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of
the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring.
I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No
problems with leaks or floats since.


Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess.
Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions
not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a
fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a
worse idea.



Who reads the instructions? :-)

Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are
designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand
older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had
newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The
surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them.

Stabil again
 

On 1/26/2015 8:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:23:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of
the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring.
I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No
problems with leaks or floats since.


Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess.
Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions
not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a
fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a
worse idea.



Who reads the instructions? :-)

Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are
designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand
older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had
newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The
surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them.


The short answer is phase separation.
E10 absorbs water and pretty soon the alcohol gets saturated and comes
out of solution.
It is a good news bad news situation. The stuff at the top of the tank
is low octane gas. The stuff in the bottom, where the pickup sits, is
low octane vodka sludge. It will not burn and it is pretty nasty on
everything on the fuel system.




Greg, there are millions of cars and trucks running just fine on E-10,
E-15 and E-85 and they tend to run longer (much higher mileage in
today's engines) with no negative affects due to ethanol.

Eethanol's primary purpose is that of an
oxygenater to reduce carbon and unburned fuel in emissions. It
was introduced to replace methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) that was
banned because it was contaminating groundwater.

The phase separation you mention might be a problem in large fuel tanks
(like in a car or boat) if the gas sits for years but I don't think
it's a big deal in a little generator with a gallon of gas in it or a
lawn mower with even less. In any case, I've never had a problem with
it in the generator or small engine gas tanks, even after sitting for years.

Stabil again
 

On 1/27/2015 2:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:43:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/26/2015 8:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:23:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of
the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring.
I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No
problems with leaks or floats since.


Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess.
Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions
not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a
fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a
worse idea.



Who reads the instructions? :-)

Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are
designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand
older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had
newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The
surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them.


The short answer is phase separation.
E10 absorbs water and pretty soon the alcohol gets saturated and comes
out of solution.
It is a good news bad news situation. The stuff at the top of the tank
is low octane gas. The stuff in the bottom, where the pickup sits, is
low octane vodka sludge. It will not burn and it is pretty nasty on
everything on the fuel system.




Greg, there are millions of cars and trucks running just fine on E-10,
E-15 and E-85 and they tend to run longer (much higher mileage in
today's engines) with no negative affects due to ethanol.

Eethanol's primary purpose is that of an
oxygenater to reduce carbon and unburned fuel in emissions. It
was introduced to replace methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) that was
banned because it was contaminating groundwater.

The phase separation you mention might be a problem in large fuel tanks
(like in a car or boat) if the gas sits for years but I don't think
it's a big deal in a little generator with a gallon of gas in it or a
lawn mower with even less. In any case, I've never had a problem with
it in the generator or small engine gas tanks, even after sitting for years.


The E-10 can start going bad in months, not years. I run it but I keep
my gas moving. We boat 3-4 days a week, year round. If you have a
trailer queen, you will have troubles. You only have to read the notes
on a real boat board to hear about it.
I also hear people with small gas powered equipment around here saying
the same thing. Chain saws seem to be the main ones since they may
not be used that often although people with "natural" (not irrigated)
lawns may not start their mower or weed eater for several months
either. Climate probably has a lot to do with it.



Well, I guess I am lucky. I just remembered something. About 3 months
ago I bought a 1988 Lincoln Town Car from a guy who has a
collection of older cars. It had been sitting in his garage for
well over a year ... maybe a couple of years ... unused. He had
removed the battery for use in another car. We put a new battery
in it and after a few cranks it started up and ran fine. Car had
half a tank of regular gas in it (E-10). Since then I've put close
to 1,000 miles on it in around town driving. Obviously the old gas
is now long gone but the car ran and continues to run perfectly.

Not sure I buy all the horror stories of E-10.

Stabil again
 

On 1/27/2015 1:27 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 02:57:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/27/2015 2:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:43:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/26/2015 8:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:23:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of
the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring.
I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No
problems with leaks or floats since.


Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess.
Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions
not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a
fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a
worse idea.



Who reads the instructions? :-)

Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are
designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand
older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had
newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The
surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them.


The short answer is phase separation.
E10 absorbs water and pretty soon the alcohol gets saturated and comes
out of solution.
It is a good news bad news situation. The stuff at the top of the tank
is low octane gas. The stuff in the bottom, where the pickup sits, is
low octane vodka sludge. It will not burn and it is pretty nasty on
everything on the fuel system.




Greg, there are millions of cars and trucks running just fine on E-10,
E-15 and E-85 and they tend to run longer (much higher mileage in
today's engines) with no negative affects due to ethanol.

Eethanol's primary purpose is that of an
oxygenater to reduce carbon and unburned fuel in emissions. It
was introduced to replace methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) that was
banned because it was contaminating groundwater.

The phase separation you mention might be a problem in large fuel tanks
(like in a car or boat) if the gas sits for years but I don't think
it's a big deal in a little generator with a gallon of gas in it or a
lawn mower with even less. In any case, I've never had a problem with
it in the generator or small engine gas tanks, even after sitting for years.


The E-10 can start going bad in months, not years. I run it but I keep
my gas moving. We boat 3-4 days a week, year round. If you have a
trailer queen, you will have troubles. You only have to read the notes
on a real boat board to hear about it.
I also hear people with small gas powered equipment around here saying
the same thing. Chain saws seem to be the main ones since they may
not be used that often although people with "natural" (not irrigated)
lawns may not start their mower or weed eater for several months
either. Climate probably has a lot to do with it.



Well, I guess I am lucky. I just remembered something. About 3 months
ago I bought a 1988 Lincoln Town Car from a guy who has a
collection of older cars. It had been sitting in his garage for
well over a year ... maybe a couple of years ... unused. He had
removed the battery for use in another car. We put a new battery
in it and after a few cranks it started up and ran fine. Car had
half a tank of regular gas in it (E-10). Since then I've put close
to 1,000 miles on it in around town driving. Obviously the old gas
is now long gone but the car ran and continues to run perfectly.

Not sure I buy all the horror stories of E-10.


The story is a car tank (since the 70s) is not vented like a boat or a
mower. It is not as likely to collect moisture.
I am not convinced it is as bad as people say but there are plenty of
anecdotes in the boating community about problems, including from the
dealer mechanics who clean up the messes.
I do think these things can take on a life of their own and every bad
thing gets blamed on ethanol.. Heat and humidity will be a bigger
issue here tho, particularly near the water.



I agree with the boat problems. I think the boating industry was caught
with their pants down when ethanol was introduced and probably didn't
fully understand what the material compatability issues are.

I just mentioned in another reply post to you about Yellowfin. I knew a
dealer for their boats up here and remember them having some problems
with the built-in fiberglass gas tanks. The ethanol was reacting with
the resin they used. The problem was short-lived and Yellowfin fixed
the few boats that had problems.

Stabil again
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/26/2015 3:42 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:08:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just dragged the old Honda EU-2000 out of the barn, just in case we
lose power in this storm. It hasn't been used or even run for three
years. When I put it away after it's last use the fuel tank was full.
I added a few ounces of Stabil to the tank and stored it away.

It took about 5 pulls, then fired right up. Runs nice and smooth.

Of course, the only way to tell if Stabil really works would be to
store it for the same period of time with a full tank but *without*
adding Stabil.

This is the second time it fired up easily after a long storage. The
first time was about 6 years. Used Stabil then also.

Snake oil or not, I think I'll keep using Stabil.

===

That's good news. A couple of questions:

Did you run the fuel out of the carb before storing?

Did you use non-ethanol fuel?



Answers:

No.
No.

I don't believe in running the carb out of fuel before storage. In my
mind it allows deposits to harden and "varnish" to form.

As I mentioned in another post to Greg, my experience with lawnmower
engines is they almost always have float or carb problems if drained,
even if it was just for the winter months. I just add Stabil, let the
engine run for a while and shut it down. Of course sitting for 6
years is extreme but the little Honda fired up and ran fine on the 6
year old gas.

I've never had any work done on the Honda. I changed the oil once (as
recommended after break-in). Haven't changed it since and I've never
stored it dry (no gas). I check the oil level occasionally and it's
fine. The Hondas automatically shut down if the oil level is low anyway.




The fuel in the carb evaporated years ago. Seafoam is a great product, too.