Mosin Nagant Question
 

On 1/19/15 10:12 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:26:50 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.ph...ment-Available

The PakistanFirst fella appears to know what he is talking about.

===

I like his analysis based on sight radius. It's a nice simple
conceptual approach that's easy to remember and apply.

In my case the sight radius is 24 inches and the distance is 1800
inches. Using his formula to drop the point of impact by 8 inches, I
need to raise the front sight post by .1 inches or lower the rear
sight notch by the same amount. That's a significant amount and will
take some planning to do it right without screwing things up.


There are so many variations of that rifle and the sights that were
attached and there are so many different refurbishments that I don't see
how anyone at a shooting club would know which sights were "OEM" for a
particular rifle.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:05:23 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/19/15 10:12 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:26:50 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.ph...ment-Available

The PakistanFirst fella appears to know what he is talking about.

===

I like his analysis based on sight radius. It's a nice simple
conceptual approach that's easy to remember and apply.

In my case the sight radius is 24 inches and the distance is 1800
inches. Using his formula to drop the point of impact by 8 inches, I
need to raise the front sight post by .1 inches or lower the rear
sight notch by the same amount. That's a significant amount and will
take some planning to do it right without screwing things up.


There are so many variations of that rifle and the sights that were
attached and there are so many different refurbishments that I don't see
how anyone at a shooting club would know which sights were "OEM" for a
particular rifle.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm

===

Interesting.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

I was thinking the sights were set befor more of a long range. Maybe the Roooski's didn't want the enemy getting that close to them

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:34:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/19/2015 6:22 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
My club is starting up an event for antique military rifles. After
hearing all of the rave reviews here and other places, I went out and
bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 the other day. It seems to be in fairly
good condition and shoots reliably but is consistently about 8 or 9
inches high at 50 yards which is the distance for our event. The rear
sight is down all the way. The gun must be totally stock for the most
part - no scopes or replacement sights are allowed which sevely limits
the options.

One thing I was thinking about was cutting the notch in the rear sight
a little deeper. Any ideas on that or anything else?



Just raise the target 8.5 inches. :-)



===

I may have found a solution. Since I needed to either raise the front
site about 1/10th of an inch or lower the rear by the same amount, I'm
trying a little of each. First I used a very small file to deepen the
notch in the rear sight. It's not nearly a tenth but it makes the
notch easier to see and is a step in the right direction. For the
front sight I salvaged a thin piece of orange plastic from a "squid
like" fishing lure, cut it to length, and glued it to the back of
front sighting post, leaving a bit sticking out above the top.
Using a black magic marker I toned down everything but the very tip of
the plastic. It now looks like an orange dot and is highly visible
through the rear sight.

I'll try it out tomorrow and see how it works.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:12:46 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:53:06 +0000, RGrew176
wrote:


Wayne.B;1025098 Wrote:
My club is starting up an event for antique military rifles. After
hearing all of the rave reviews here and other places, I went out and
bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 the other day. It seems to be in fairly
good condition and shoots reliably but is consistently about 8 or 9
inches high at 50 yards which is the distance for our event. The rear
sight is down all the way. The gun must be totally stock for the most
part - no scopes or replacement sights are allowed which sevely limits
the options.

One thing I was thinking about was cutting the notch in the rear sight
a little deeper. Any ideas on that or anything else?

The iron sights on this rifle are set for 300 yards. When I was
researching mine I found that little tidbit somewhere in my research. If
I can again find the article I will link it here but it will not be
until the weekend that I will have time to look. Anything less than 300
yards will be high.

From everything I have heard, a standard battle zero is 200 yards and
the assumption is that a center of mass aim will still deliver a
debilitating hit anywhere from point blank to almost 350 yards.
The high point with 7.62 NATO will be around 120 yards and a few
inches. If you did zero at 300, you would still only be about 6" high
around 170 yards.
Bear in mind European/American strategy was that a wound was as good,
if not better than a kill. The assumption was that the enemy would
expend resources saving a wounded guy. When we started dealing with
Asians that did not always ring true.

If you are 8" high at 50 yards you will be zero again at about 600.
(using the 7.62 NATO calculator)
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

I don't see the data for the 7.62-54

My battle zero with the M-14 was 100 yards. I'll never forget that!
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:06:35 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:12:46 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:53:06 +0000, RGrew176
wrote:


Wayne.B;1025098 Wrote:
My club is starting up an event for antique military rifles. After
hearing all of the rave reviews here and other places, I went out and
bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 the other day. It seems to be in fairly
good condition and shoots reliably but is consistently about 8 or 9
inches high at 50 yards which is the distance for our event. The rear
sight is down all the way. The gun must be totally stock for the most
part - no scopes or replacement sights are allowed which sevely limits
the options.

One thing I was thinking about was cutting the notch in the rear sight
a little deeper. Any ideas on that or anything else?

The iron sights on this rifle are set for 300 yards. When I was
researching mine I found that little tidbit somewhere in my research. If
I can again find the article I will link it here but it will not be
until the weekend that I will have time to look. Anything less than 300
yards will be high.

From everything I have heard, a standard battle zero is 200 yards and
the assumption is that a center of mass aim will still deliver a
debilitating hit anywhere from point blank to almost 350 yards.
The high point with 7.62 NATO will be around 120 yards and a few
inches. If you did zero at 300, you would still only be about 6" high
around 170 yards.
Bear in mind European/American strategy was that a wound was as good,
if not better than a kill. The assumption was that the enemy would
expend resources saving a wounded guy. When we started dealing with
Asians that did not always ring true.

If you are 8" high at 50 yards you will be zero again at about 600.
(using the 7.62 NATO calculator)
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

I don't see the data for the 7.62-54

My battle zero with the M-14 was 100 yards. I'll never forget that!

===

My recollection of basic training has dimmed a little since 1967 but I
seem to recall zeroing the M-14 at some relatively close range, maybe
25 yards. The theory was that it would then also be zeroed at
something like 100 or 150 yards. I forget. It was an easy gun to
zero, only took 3 or 4 three shot groups to get it dead nutz on as I
recall. After that I could hit anything they threw at us out to 300
yards or so. Nice shooting rifle and I ended up as top gun in our
platoon.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:57:25 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:06:35 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:12:46 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:53:06 +0000, RGrew176
wrote:


Wayne.B;1025098 Wrote:
My club is starting up an event for antique military rifles. After
hearing all of the rave reviews here and other places, I went out and
bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 the other day. It seems to be in fairly
good condition and shoots reliably but is consistently about 8 or 9
inches high at 50 yards which is the distance for our event. The rear
sight is down all the way. The gun must be totally stock for the most
part - no scopes or replacement sights are allowed which sevely limits
the options.

One thing I was thinking about was cutting the notch in the rear sight
a little deeper. Any ideas on that or anything else?

The iron sights on this rifle are set for 300 yards. When I was
researching mine I found that little tidbit somewhere in my research. If
I can again find the article I will link it here but it will not be
until the weekend that I will have time to look. Anything less than 300
yards will be high.

From everything I have heard, a standard battle zero is 200 yards and
the assumption is that a center of mass aim will still deliver a
debilitating hit anywhere from point blank to almost 350 yards.
The high point with 7.62 NATO will be around 120 yards and a few
inches. If you did zero at 300, you would still only be about 6" high
around 170 yards.
Bear in mind European/American strategy was that a wound was as good,
if not better than a kill. The assumption was that the enemy would
expend resources saving a wounded guy. When we started dealing with
Asians that did not always ring true.

If you are 8" high at 50 yards you will be zero again at about 600.
(using the 7.62 NATO calculator)
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

I don't see the data for the 7.62-54

My battle zero with the M-14 was 100 yards. I'll never forget that!

===

My recollection of basic training has dimmed a little since 1967 but I
seem to recall zeroing the M-14 at some relatively close range, maybe
25 yards. The theory was that it would then also be zeroed at
something like 100 or 150 yards. I forget. It was an easy gun to
zero, only took 3 or 4 three shot groups to get it dead nutz on as I
recall. After that I could hit anything they threw at us out to 300
yards or so. Nice shooting rifle and I ended up as top gun in our
platoon.

You know what? You're absolutely right. i guess by gosh I *did* forget that. Yes, it was 25 yards,
sandbag supported, shot group had to be covered by a quarter, which I think the drill sergeant stole
from everyone after saying OK.

Yup, easy to shoot. I missed two targets when qualifying - both 50 yard targets. Forgot to aim low.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 01:36:26 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:06:35 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:12:46 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:53:06 +0000, RGrew176
wrote:


Wayne.B;1025098 Wrote:
My club is starting up an event for antique military rifles. After
hearing all of the rave reviews here and other places, I went out and
bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 the other day. It seems to be in fairly
good condition and shoots reliably but is consistently about 8 or 9
inches high at 50 yards which is the distance for our event. The rear
sight is down all the way. The gun must be totally stock for the most
part - no scopes or replacement sights are allowed which sevely limits
the options.

One thing I was thinking about was cutting the notch in the rear sight
a little deeper. Any ideas on that or anything else?

The iron sights on this rifle are set for 300 yards. When I was
researching mine I found that little tidbit somewhere in my research. If
I can again find the article I will link it here but it will not be
until the weekend that I will have time to look. Anything less than 300
yards will be high.

From everything I have heard, a standard battle zero is 200 yards and
the assumption is that a center of mass aim will still deliver a
debilitating hit anywhere from point blank to almost 350 yards.
The high point with 7.62 NATO will be around 120 yards and a few
inches. If you did zero at 300, you would still only be about 6" high
around 170 yards.
Bear in mind European/American strategy was that a wound was as good,
if not better than a kill. The assumption was that the enemy would
expend resources saving a wounded guy. When we started dealing with
Asians that did not always ring true.

If you are 8" high at 50 yards you will be zero again at about 600.
(using the 7.62 NATO calculator)
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

I don't see the data for the 7.62-54

My battle zero with the M-14 was 100 yards. I'll never forget that!

They must have changed it for the jungle. It used to be 200.

Wayne was right. We zero'd at 25 yards, but aimed dead center at a 200 or 250 (not sure which) yard
target.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

I was off a bit when I said that the Mosin Nagants iron sights are factory set for 300 yards, its 300 meters according to this article.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ant-9130-pt-3/

From the article:

Although some 91/30s were sighted in at 100 meters, most were zeroed at the factory or arsenal for the expected battle distance of 300 meters.

Mosin Nagant Question
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 02:22:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 06:45:02 +0000, RGrew176
wrote:


I was off a bit when I said that the Mosin Nagants iron sights are
factory set for 300 yards, its 300 meters according to this article.

http://tinyurl.com/og7q42n

From the article:

Although some 91/30s were sighted in at 100 meters, most were zeroed at
the factory or arsenal for the expected battle distance of 300 meters.

I have seen a couple of schemes for raising the front sight but I
think I would be tempted to go with good old JB Weld. Clean the
existing sight with lacquer thinner and maybe even rough it up a bit
with a Dremel, then glop on a generous amount of JB and let it cure
well. Then tomorrow, shape it down with your dremel until it is a bit
better looking but taller than you know you need.
Take a file to the range and hone it in. I think, just for strength, I
would leave it wide at the base and taper it down to the desired width
at the top leaving the metal covered all the way. That should be a lot
more durable than the other things I have seen.
Color it to whatever you want. If you like white, use Marine Tex.
(the boating content) ;-)
Plan B might be to drive it all the way off and have a welder buddy
with a MIG put some extra metal on the sight and machine it back down.
You might even be able to braze a little metal on with the advantage
that the sight would be brass color at the tip.

===

That would no doubt work but it might not pass muster with the match
inspectors. Increasing the notch depth of the rear sight seemed
promising the other day so I'm going to stick with that for another
week or two and see how it goes.