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What a patriot!
Yesterday, on Meet the Press, this exchange took place between Chuck Todd and Dick Cheney regarding the U.S. torture program and how it was used on innocent prisoners: CHUCK TODD: Let me go to Gul Rahman. He was chained to the wall of his cell, doused with water, froze to death in C.I.A. custody. And it turned out it was a case of mistaken identity. DICK CHENEY: --right. But the problem I had is with the folks that we did release that end up back on the battlefield. [...] I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that, in fact, were innocent. CHUCK TODD: 25% of the detainees though, 25% turned out to be innocent. They were released. DICK CHENEY: Where are you going to draw the line, Chuck? How are-- [...] CHUCK TODD: Is that too high? You're okay with that margin for error? DICK CHENEY: I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective. - - - - - - - - I'd love to hear Cheney repeat those words and other comments he's made recently about torture while in the dock at the Hague. -- Let’s elect a gay black woman with a latino lover president, if only for the possibility of provoking a right-wing mass suicide. |
What a patriot!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:57:00 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote: Yesterday, on Meet the Press, this exchange took place between Chuck Todd and Dick Cheney regarding the U.S. torture program and how it was used on innocent prisoners: CHUCK TODD: Let me go to Gul Rahman. He was chained to the wall of his cell, doused with water, froze to death in C.I.A. custody. And it turned out it was a case of mistaken identity. DICK CHENEY: --right. But the problem I had is with the folks that we did release that end up back on the battlefield. [...] I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that, in fact, were innocent. CHUCK TODD: 25% of the detainees though, 25% turned out to be innocent. They were released. DICK CHENEY: Where are you going to draw the line, Chuck? How are-- [...] CHUCK TODD: Is that too high? You're okay with that margin for error? DICK CHENEY: I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective. - - - - - - - - I'd love to hear Cheney repeat those words and other comments he's made recently about torture while in the dock at the Hague. From where came the numbers, Toad? -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
On 12/15/14 4:51 PM, Toad Gigger wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:57:00 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Yesterday, on Meet the Press, this exchange took place between Chuck Todd and Dick Cheney regarding the U.S. torture program and how it was used on innocent prisoners: CHUCK TODD: Let me go to Gul Rahman. He was chained to the wall of his cell, doused with water, froze to death in C.I.A. custody. And it turned out it was a case of mistaken identity. DICK CHENEY: --right. But the problem I had is with the folks that we did release that end up back on the battlefield. [...] I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that, in fact, were innocent. CHUCK TODD: 25% of the detainees though, 25% turned out to be innocent. They were released. DICK CHENEY: Where are you going to draw the line, Chuck? How are-- [...] CHUCK TODD: Is that too high? You're okay with that margin for error? DICK CHENEY: I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective. - - - - - - - - I'd love to hear Cheney repeat those words and other comments he's made recently about torture while in the dock at the Hague. From where came the numbers, Toad? Ask Chuck Todd, ****-for-brains, if you dispute them. Cheney didn't. -- Let’s elect a gay black woman with a latino lover president, if only for the possibility of provoking a right-wing mass suicide. |
What a patriot!
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What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:08:26 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote: In article , says... There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes. If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed. Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,. Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are different matters. How do you the 'hidden' party is guilty of anything? The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious. Which would be the proper course of action - or capturing the individual and granting him 'due process'. With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration. Is that what you really want? Pakistan has nukes now? You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture. But being blown to smithereens without due process is OK? They concealed that they were torturing. Why? Gosh, you must totally believe anything Democrat witch-hunters have to say. Because it is a criminal activity. Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal. So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them. Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes alike. Let them stand up and declare it. I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values. You make little sense. On the one hand you preach 'law', but on the other you justify the 'lawlessness' of drone strikes on 'possible' terrorists who 'may' be guilty of something besides being intermingled with civilians. Sneer as you will, but you're right up there with the Toad when it comes to your liberal logic. -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:22:08 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:08:26 -0600, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes. If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed. Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,. Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are different matters. How do you the 'hidden' party is guilty of anything? The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious. Which would be the proper course of action - or capturing the individual and granting him 'due process'. With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration. Is that what you really want? Pakistan has nukes now? You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture. But being blown to smithereens without due process is OK? They concealed that they were torturing. Why? Gosh, you must totally believe anything Democrat witch-hunters have to say. Because it is a criminal activity. Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal. So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them. Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes alike. Let them stand up and declare it. I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values. You make little sense. On the one hand you preach 'law', but on the other you justify the 'lawlessness' of drone strikes on 'possible' terrorists who 'may' be guilty of something besides being intermingled with civilians. Sneer as you will, but you're right up there with the Toad when it comes to your liberal logic. === Pakistan has had nukes for a long time. That's one of the big risks in the Middle East given their political instability. It's not clear how much longer they will be able to withstand the combined threats of a hyper religious populace, the Taliban, Al Queda and ISIS. |
What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:23:32 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:22:08 -0500, Toad Gigger wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:08:26 -0600, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes. If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed. Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,. Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are different matters. How do you the 'hidden' party is guilty of anything? The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious. Which would be the proper course of action - or capturing the individual and granting him 'due process'. With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration. Is that what you really want? Pakistan has nukes now? You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture. But being blown to smithereens without due process is OK? They concealed that they were torturing. Why? Gosh, you must totally believe anything Democrat witch-hunters have to say. Because it is a criminal activity. Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal. So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them. Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes alike. Let them stand up and declare it. I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values. You make little sense. On the one hand you preach 'law', but on the other you justify the 'lawlessness' of drone strikes on 'possible' terrorists who 'may' be guilty of something besides being intermingled with civilians. Sneer as you will, but you're right up there with the Toad when it comes to your liberal logic. === Pakistan has had nukes for a long time. That's one of the big risks in the Middle East given their political instability. It's not clear how much longer they will be able to withstand the combined threats of a hyper religious populace, the Taliban, Al Queda and ISIS. Oh what a dummy - I was thinking 'Palestine' when I read his rant. Sorry BAO, I take that 'one' line back. -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/14 8:22 AM, Toad Gigger wrote:
Pakistan has nukes now? Have you been living in a cave in Afghanistan? Both Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. Pakistan has had them for nearly 20 years. -- Let’s elect a gay black woman with a latino lover president, if only for the possibility of provoking a right-wing mass suicide. |
What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:49:53 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 12/16/14 8:22 AM, Toad Gigger wrote: Pakistan has nukes now? Have you been living in a cave in Afghanistan? Both Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. Pakistan has had them for nearly 20 years. Mis-read Toad. Not something you've ever done! -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 8:08 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes. If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed. Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,. Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are different matters. The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious. With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration. Is that what you really want? You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture. They concealed that they were torturing. Why? Because it is a criminal activity. Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal. So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them. Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes alike. Let them stand up and declare it. I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values. I watched Charlie Rose interview the CIA agent who did the initial interrogation (using conventional methods) of the 9/11 "mastermind" (forget his name). The agent said the guy was an arrogant SOB with no respect for his situation. He taunted and threatened those who grilled him and had a major criminal type mindset. The CIA agent said that after one session with water-boarding the guy was singing like a canary. He, as others have claimed, provided valuable Intel as to organizational stuff and a future planned attack. I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives. |
What a patriot!
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What a patriot!
Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes. If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed. Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,. Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are different matters. The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious. With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration. Is that what you really want? You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture. They concealed that they were torturing. Why? Because it is a criminal activity. Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal. So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them. Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes alike. Let them stand up and declare it. I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values. And what court convicted those killed in the drone strike? Just another mass murderer in your logic. |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 2:18 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives. What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort them out? Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent crimes if it saves American lives. Not me. You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent victims of mistaken identity? Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out. Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are given free rein. You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said. I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11) specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA agent had to say. He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding. Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not. Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability? Absolutely. |
What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:18:02 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote: In article , says... I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives. What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort them out? Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent crimes if it saves American lives. Not me. You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent victims of mistaken identity? Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out. Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are given free rein. I'll bet you even believed the Affordable Care Act was going to be affordable. -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
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What a patriot!
On 12/16/14 5:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said. I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11) specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA agent had to say. He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding. Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not. Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability? Absolutely. WTF? You expect me to believe the CIA? KSM has confessed to everything he's been accused of. That's what torturing gets. Confessing to everything, true or not. He revealed nothing that saved American lives. Nothing. You have to torture everyone before the crime is committed to prevent the crime. Everyone. Including those who know nothing about it. They'll all confess. To everything. That's real detective work there. Didn't the CIA report that Osama bin Laden confessed to plotting the 9-11 attacks as soon as they cut his head off? :) -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 5:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said. I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11) specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA agent had to say. He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding. Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not. Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability? Absolutely. WTF? You expect me to believe the CIA? KSM has confessed to everything he's been accused of. That's what torturing gets. Confessing to everything, true or not. He revealed nothing that saved American lives. Nothing. You have to torture everyone before the crime is committed to prevent the crime. Everyone. Including those who know nothing about it. They'll all confess. To everything. That's real detective work there. You sure are the expert in such matters. Ever apply for a government job? |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
-- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 5:24 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. "shadier deals"? That cracks me up. Jeb is considered by many to be a straight shooter. I suppose you could interpret records of *any* politician to be "shady" depending upon your interests. |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/14 5:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/16/2014 5:24 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. "shadier deals"? That cracks me up. Jeb is considered by many to be a straight shooter. I suppose you could interpret records of *any* politician to be "shady" depending upon your interests. If you go back some years, you might still be able to discover some of his dealings... In one notable deal involving Bush and his business partner Armando Codina, the two purchased an office building in Miami using funds Codina borrowed from a local savings and loan institution, which became insolvent in 1988. When the federal government – led by Bush’s father – stepped in to bail out the savings and loan industry, Bush and Codina’s loan was credited with $4 million in government funds, lifting the liability of a $4.565 million second mortgage off of the partners. Nice if your daddy is POTUS, eh? In 2007, Bush joined the private equity advisory board at Lehman Brothers. The company sold more than $800 million worth of mortgage-backed securities to the Florida State Fund. The securities defaulted in just four months.806 It was later revealed that the sales to the state fund took place just before Lehman revealed Bush’s role in the company. Bush denied having any role in this specific sale, although Lehman won six contracts and just shy of $10 million in fees from Florida state agencies while Bush was governor. When Lehman Brothers collapsed the following year, it had the potential to cost the state of Florida more than $1 billion. Local governments in the state were trapped with tainted securities that they could not redeem, worth more than $500 million. While Lehman was on the verge of bankruptcy in 2008, Bush reached out to Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim to solicit an investment in a Lehman project code-named “Project Verde,” but Bush wrote to a colleague at Lehman in July of the same year that “Project Verde was unsuccessful.” Smoldering ruins, redux. -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 4:37 PM, Toad Gigger wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:18:02 -0600, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives. What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort them out? Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent crimes if it saves American lives. Not me. You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent victims of mistaken identity? Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out. Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are given free rein. I'll bet you even believed the Affordable Care Act was going to be affordable. lol |
What a patriot!
Toad Gigger wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:18:02 -0600, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives. What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort them out? Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent crimes if it saves American lives. Not me. You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent victims of mistaken identity? Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out. Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are given free rein. I'll bet you even believed the Affordable Care Act was going to be affordable. Fascinating how you righties with subsidized insurance whine about the ACA. -- Sent from my iPhone 6+ |
What a patriot!
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/16/2014 5:24 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. "shadier deals"? That cracks me up. Jeb is considered by many to be a straight shooter. I suppose you could interpret records of *any* politician to be "shady" depending upon your interests. Shady? I think you are confused with Hillary. |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 5:46 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/16/14 5:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:24 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. "shadier deals"? That cracks me up. Jeb is considered by many to be a straight shooter. I suppose you could interpret records of *any* politician to be "shady" depending upon your interests. If you go back some years, you might still be able to discover some of his dealings... In one notable deal involving Bush and his business partner Armando Codina, the two purchased an office building in Miami using funds Codina borrowed from a local savings and loan institution, which became insolvent in 1988. When the federal government – led by Bush’s father – stepped in to bail out the savings and loan industry, Bush and Codina’s loan was credited with $4 million in government funds, lifting the liability of a $4.565 million second mortgage off of the partners. Nice if your daddy is POTUS, eh? In 2007, Bush joined the private equity advisory board at Lehman Brothers. The company sold more than $800 million worth of mortgage-backed securities to the Florida State Fund. The securities defaulted in just four months.806 It was later revealed that the sales to the state fund took place just before Lehman revealed Bush’s role in the company. Bush denied having any role in this specific sale, although Lehman won six contracts and just shy of $10 million in fees from Florida state agencies while Bush was governor. When Lehman Brothers collapsed the following year, it had the potential to cost the state of Florida more than $1 billion. Local governments in the state were trapped with tainted securities that they could not redeem, worth more than $500 million. While Lehman was on the verge of bankruptcy in 2008, Bush reached out to Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim to solicit an investment in a Lehman project code-named “Project Verde,” but Bush wrote to a colleague at Lehman in July of the same year that “Project Verde was unsuccessful.” Smoldering ruins, redux. And so the dirt digging begins. Jeb Bush and Florida aren't the only examples of dealings leading to the real estate and then financial sector crash in 2008. In fact, the whole fiasco can be traced back to the likes of Barney Frank during Clinton's administration. The one thing I remember about Jeb Bush was that he was highly respected as the governor in Florida and had a reputation for being a straight shooter. Let's see if he really decides to run and then evaluate him on current issues, shall we? |
What a patriot!
On 12/16/2014 7:06 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:24 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: -- Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker: *Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins* Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running. Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting the BS ? I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier deals in Florida and elsewhere. I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program, opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum. The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death for him. "shadier deals"? That cracks me up. Jeb is considered by many to be a straight shooter. I suppose you could interpret records of *any* politician to be "shady" depending upon your interests. Shady? I think you are confused with Hillary. No ****. If she runs against Jeb and the investigative journalist start doing honest vetting checks on their respective backgrounds Jeb will come out looking squeaky clean compared to the lying, poll led Hillary. |
What a patriot!
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What a patriot!
On 12/17/2014 5:35 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/17/2014 1:57 AM, wrote: On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 01:02:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Shady? I think you are confused with Hillary. No ****. If she runs against Jeb and the investigative journalist start doing honest vetting checks on their respective backgrounds Jeb will come out looking squeaky clean compared to the lying, poll led Hillary. I think it is funny that when Bill was on the hot seat for all of those shady deals in Arkansas, they said it was really Hillary's business and Bill was busy being a politician. I wonder how they will spin it when it comes up again. Personally I agree with Momma Bush. Haven't we heard enough from the Clintons and the Bushes? I'd like to see some fresh faces from both sides also. However, if the choice comes down to Hillary or Jeb there's no question in my mind unless it's discovered that he has some major, serious issue in his background. Then again, if there is he'll probably be forced to drop out. I am not totally convinced Hillary is going to run. She may make a bombshell announcement in January. She has too much baggage, she's well aware of the process and she can't go on deflecting answers to serious questions forever. Plus, she's making $$ hand over fist on the speaking circuit. The Dems are already starting to look elsewhere. Warren? PLEASE NO. I think I'll go make a cup of coffee and go out and see if the alligator is around in the lake I am on. Send me a secret message and tell me all about it. -- Patriotic Americans dump on Krause. |
What a patriot!
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What a patriot!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 21:28:59 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:22:08 -0500, Toad Gigger wrote: Pakistan has nukes now? for many years Yes, yes, yes! I was thinking 'Palestine'. Jeees. We can't all be as perfect as the Toad! -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
What a patriot!
On Monday, December 15, 2014 5:00:40 PM UTC-8, Keester Noze wrote:
I think I read that Cheney does not go abroad for fear of being taken before the Hague. -- When did you take up *thinking?* Or is this a new found hobby of yours? |
What a patriot!
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:54:14 -0800 (PST), Tom Nofinger
wrote: On Monday, December 15, 2014 5:00:40 PM UTC-8, Keester Noze wrote: I think I read that Cheney does not go abroad for fear of being taken before the Hague. -- When did you take up *thinking?* Or is this a new found hobby of yours? He uses that phrase to make a statement which is a lie, but leaves him an 'out'. -- Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year! |
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