Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:

SNIPPED

Anchoring has so many variables that any one test run means very
little in the overall art of anchoring. And, it is an art. The
sailor (artist) must have a variety of anchors at his disposal
and know how, when and where to use each one. About the only
thing that makes the sailor proficient is experience, experience
and more experience in all manner of holding grounds.

Expecting one particular anchor to work well or even adequately
in all holding grounds is folly.


That is about the first sensible thing the Craptain has posted; and that
is something I thought I would never write.

Most of the recent anchors like the Rocna are a gimmick and
not as reliable as the older patent anchors. That people pay
such exorbitant prices for these dubious anchors is folly.


That I cannot agree with. Understanding of how anchors 'work' has
developed over the years, as have manufacturing techniques.

To add to your experience, the Rocna and similar copies have been
thouroughly tested since their inception by many reputable boating
mags, websites and organisations. They continue to stand out among
the best. I'd love to try one vs my quite heavy Danforth - but they
are quite dear!


Sailing in NW Scotland and points further north, anchoring is the norm
for me. For my last boat (Nicholson 32) I got one of the first Rocna's
to be imported into the UK. I found it to be a significantly more
reliable than the CQR (15Kg both) and, contrary to Duncan McCormack's
experiences, set very quickly. It held in windy situations when I was
quite worried. When I changed boats last year (Rustler 36 now) I got a
Rocna 20Kg before I took the boat out.

Tony H

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:16:59 +0000, Tony H wrote:

Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:

SNIPPED

Anchoring has so many variables that any one test run means very
little in the overall art of anchoring. And, it is an art. The
sailor (artist) must have a variety of anchors at his disposal
and know how, when and where to use each one. About the only
thing that makes the sailor proficient is experience, experience
and more experience in all manner of holding grounds.

Expecting one particular anchor to work well or even adequately
in all holding grounds is folly.


That is about the first sensible thing the Craptain has posted; and that
is something I thought I would never write.

Most of the recent anchors like the Rocna are a gimmick and
not as reliable as the older patent anchors. That people pay
such exorbitant prices for these dubious anchors is folly.


That I cannot agree with. Understanding of how anchors 'work' has
developed over the years, as have manufacturing techniques.

To add to your experience, the Rocna and similar copies have been
thouroughly tested since their inception by many reputable boating
mags, websites and organisations. They continue to stand out among
the best. I'd love to try one vs my quite heavy Danforth - but they
are quite dear!


Sailing in NW Scotland and points further north, anchoring is the norm
for me. For my last boat (Nicholson 32) I got one of the first Rocna's
to be imported into the UK. I found it to be a significantly more
reliable than the CQR (15Kg both) and, contrary to Duncan McCormack's
experiences, set very quickly. It held in windy situations when I was
quite worried. When I changed boats last year (Rustler 36 now) I got a
Rocna 20Kg before I took the boat out.


I'm afraid I just do not understand those sailors who
willingly place all their eggs in one basket. I don't
see why a total reliance on one anchor is anything but
folly. Sooner or later such a practice will come back
and bite the sailor right square in his gullible arse.

Let me ask all those who rely on one anchor, in other
than a *lunch hook* situation, why?

When I see any sailor relying on one anchor, especially
when overnighting, I say to myself - "That's stupid and
irresponsible." It's stupid because two anchors work
better than one and it's irresponsible because the
stupidity endangers the vessels downwind of the one
where the sailor sleeps the night away on one hook
oblivious to the one anchor dragging and the vessel
potentially running afoul of another vessel.

That being said, how about tandem anchor tests that
might wake some oblivious sailors up to the fact that
two is better than one and how the two should be set
and what combinations in what conditions work the best.

Testing a single anchor tells me those doing the testing
simply have a product to hawk, the publicity of which
takes precedence over safe and sound seamanship.

--
Sir Gregory

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:15 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:16:59 +0000, Tony H wrote:

Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:

SNIPPED

Anchoring has so many variables that any one test run means very
little in the overall art of anchoring. And, it is an art. The
sailor (artist) must have a variety of anchors at his disposal
and know how, when and where to use each one. About the only
thing that makes the sailor proficient is experience, experience
and more experience in all manner of holding grounds.

Expecting one particular anchor to work well or even adequately
in all holding grounds is folly.


That is about the first sensible thing the Craptain has posted; and that
is something I thought I would never write.

Most of the recent anchors like the Rocna are a gimmick and
not as reliable as the older patent anchors. That people pay
such exorbitant prices for these dubious anchors is folly.


That I cannot agree with. Understanding of how anchors 'work' has
developed over the years, as have manufacturing techniques.

To add to your experience, the Rocna and similar copies have been
thouroughly tested since their inception by many reputable boating
mags, websites and organisations. They continue to stand out among
the best. I'd love to try one vs my quite heavy Danforth - but they
are quite dear!


Sailing in NW Scotland and points further north, anchoring is the norm
for me. For my last boat (Nicholson 32) I got one of the first Rocna's
to be imported into the UK. I found it to be a significantly more
reliable than the CQR (15Kg both) and, contrary to Duncan McCormack's
experiences, set very quickly. It held in windy situations when I was
quite worried. When I changed boats last year (Rustler 36 now) I got a
Rocna 20Kg before I took the boat out.


I'm afraid I just do not understand those sailors who
willingly place all their eggs in one basket. I don't
see why a total reliance on one anchor is anything but
folly. Sooner or later such a practice will come back
and bite the sailor right square in his gullible arse.

Let me ask all those who rely on one anchor, in other
than a *lunch hook* situation, why?

When I see any sailor relying on one anchor, especially
when overnighting, I say to myself - "That's stupid and
irresponsible." It's stupid because two anchors work
better than one and it's irresponsible because the
stupidity endangers the vessels downwind of the one
where the sailor sleeps the night away on one hook
oblivious to the one anchor dragging and the vessel
potentially running afoul of another vessel.

That being said, how about tandem anchor tests that
might wake some oblivious sailors up to the fact that
two is better than one and how the two should be set
and what combinations in what conditions work the best.

Testing a single anchor tells me those doing the testing
simply have a product to hawk, the publicity of which
takes precedence over safe and sound seamanship.

===

Sir Gregory, I'm sure you'll be comforted to know that we do not rely
on just a single anchor. In fact, we have a whole bunch of them for
spares and special occassions. In addition to the big Rocna (our
primary), we also carry a Spade (from our old boat), A Bruce (which
came with our present boat), several Danforths of different sizes, and
a couple of small dinghy anchors.

Last winter down in the Carib we were in a situation at St Barts where
we wanted to keep the bow pointed into the prevailing swell, and the
stern facing the beach. I set a 12 lb Danforth from the stern on 150
ft of rode and took it towards the beach via dinghy. It was well set
in sand with an effective scope of over 12 to 1. It not only did an
admirable job of keeping the bow pointed into the swell but at certain
times of the day the wind would reverse and the entire boat would be
effectively anchored by the stern with the little Danforth. It never
dragged.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 18:15:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:15 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:16:59 +0000, Tony H wrote:

Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:

SNIPPED

Anchoring has so many variables that any one test run means very
little in the overall art of anchoring. And, it is an art. The
sailor (artist) must have a variety of anchors at his disposal
and know how, when and where to use each one. About the only
thing that makes the sailor proficient is experience, experience
and more experience in all manner of holding grounds.

Expecting one particular anchor to work well or even adequately
in all holding grounds is folly.


That is about the first sensible thing the Craptain has posted; and that
is something I thought I would never write.

Most of the recent anchors like the Rocna are a gimmick and
not as reliable as the older patent anchors. That people pay
such exorbitant prices for these dubious anchors is folly.


That I cannot agree with. Understanding of how anchors 'work' has
developed over the years, as have manufacturing techniques.

To add to your experience, the Rocna and similar copies have been
thouroughly tested since their inception by many reputable boating
mags, websites and organisations. They continue to stand out among
the best. I'd love to try one vs my quite heavy Danforth - but they
are quite dear!


Sailing in NW Scotland and points further north, anchoring is the norm
for me. For my last boat (Nicholson 32) I got one of the first Rocna's
to be imported into the UK. I found it to be a significantly more
reliable than the CQR (15Kg both) and, contrary to Duncan McCormack's
experiences, set very quickly. It held in windy situations when I was
quite worried. When I changed boats last year (Rustler 36 now) I got a
Rocna 20Kg before I took the boat out.


I'm afraid I just do not understand those sailors who
willingly place all their eggs in one basket. I don't
see why a total reliance on one anchor is anything but
folly. Sooner or later such a practice will come back
and bite the sailor right square in his gullible arse.

Let me ask all those who rely on one anchor, in other
than a *lunch hook* situation, why?

When I see any sailor relying on one anchor, especially
when overnighting, I say to myself - "That's stupid and
irresponsible." It's stupid because two anchors work
better than one and it's irresponsible because the
stupidity endangers the vessels downwind of the one
where the sailor sleeps the night away on one hook
oblivious to the one anchor dragging and the vessel
potentially running afoul of another vessel.

That being said, how about tandem anchor tests that
might wake some oblivious sailors up to the fact that
two is better than one and how the two should be set
and what combinations in what conditions work the best.

Testing a single anchor tells me those doing the testing
simply have a product to hawk, the publicity of which
takes precedence over safe and sound seamanship.

===

Sir Gregory, I'm sure you'll be comforted to know that we do not rely
on just a single anchor. In fact, we have a whole bunch of them for
spares and special occassions. In addition to the big Rocna (our
primary), we also carry a Spade (from our old boat), A Bruce (which
came with our present boat), several Danforths of different sizes, and
a couple of small dinghy anchors.

Last winter down in the Carib we were in a situation at St Barts where
we wanted to keep the bow pointed into the prevailing swell, and the
stern facing the beach. I set a 12 lb Danforth from the stern on 150
ft of rode and took it towards the beach via dinghy. It was well set
in sand with an effective scope of over 12 to 1. It not only did an
admirable job of keeping the bow pointed into the swell but at certain
times of the day the wind would reverse and the entire boat would be
effectively anchored by the stern with the little Danforth. It never
dragged.

That's good that you have a variety of anchors. Many power boats
rely solely on one small anchor hanging off a small bow roller.
Many are more for show than for go. I've seen fifty foot power
boats with four 350 HP outboards on the transom using a 25 pound
polished stainless steel plow and that's the only anchor they have
aboard the POS.

You should try something sometime. These fools who claim a 700
pound pull in a 15-knot wind are stupid. If the math and surface
area of the vessel produces 700 pounds of resistance it CANNOT
be assumed that that force is transmitted to the anchor itself.

In actuality it is not. Your 12-pound Danforth with that much
springy nylon rode probably only *felt* fifteen or twenty pounds
of force pulling on it as most of the force is *used up* by
the springiness of the rode and the cantenary stretching out
with resistance from the water itself. That's one reason NOT
to use all chain road, IMO, although chain cantenary can have a
similar effect though it lacks the necessary springiness of
a nylon rode when pulled taut.

I have done unsubjective tests with my boat in such winds
using one of my 20-pound Danforths well set with about
100 feet of nylon line and I have snorkeled down and gripped
the nylon rode just boatward from the approximately eight feet
of stainless steel anchor chain with both hands at arms length
and drawn my hands together. Overcoming the inertia of the
vessel was the hardest part. At no time once my hands were
close together and all the force going through my arms did
I ever feel more than about ten or fifteen pounds of actual
pull.

--
Sir Gregory

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:34:46 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/24/14 4:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:06:18 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Last year, a high school classmate of mine, a fellow whose prior boating
experience was plying the waters of LI Sound in a daysailer, remarried
(he was a widower) and he and his bride spent six months on a 40'
sailboat they chartered going to many ports of call in the Mediterranean
(and docking the boat and going inland), starting in Spain, with
landings in France, Italy, Albania (yikes!) and Greece, and a couple of
others I don't recall. That's a trip I'd love to take to put water under
my keel.

===

You should go, it's a wonderful trip.


Love to, but another two week Greek Isle cruise is more likely. Neither
my wife nor I are retired, and neither of us would want to live aboard a
small boat for six months, or even one month.

....especially if it were the same boat!

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:38:46 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/24/14 1:01 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:34:46 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/24/14 4:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:06:18 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Last year, a high school classmate of mine, a fellow whose prior boating
experience was plying the waters of LI Sound in a daysailer, remarried
(he was a widower) and he and his bride spent six months on a 40'
sailboat they chartered going to many ports of call in the Mediterranean
(and docking the boat and going inland), starting in Spain, with
landings in France, Italy, Albania (yikes!) and Greece, and a couple of
others I don't recall. That's a trip I'd love to take to put water under
my keel.

===

You should go, it's a wonderful trip.


Love to, but another two week Greek Isle cruise is more likely. Neither
my wife nor I are retired, and neither of us would want to live aboard a
small boat for six months, or even one month.

...especially if it were the same boat!


Perhaps you are projecting. My wife and enjoy each other's company. I
typically engage in my "not at home" hobbies when she is at work. Unlike
you, who seems to have a limitless number of hobbies to get out of the
house and away from your lovely wife.

You're the man, Toad!

On 11/24/2014 4:08 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/24/14 2:50 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:38:46 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/24/14 1:01 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:34:46 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/24/14 4:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:06:18 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Last year, a high school classmate of mine, a fellow whose prior
boating
experience was plying the waters of LI Sound in a daysailer,
remarried
(he was a widower) and he and his bride spent six months on a 40'
sailboat they chartered going to many ports of call in the
Mediterranean
(and docking the boat and going inland), starting in Spain, with
landings in France, Italy, Albania (yikes!) and Greece, and a
couple of
others I don't recall. That's a trip I'd love to take to put
water under
my keel.

===

You should go, it's a wonderful trip.


Love to, but another two week Greek Isle cruise is more likely.
Neither
my wife nor I are retired, and neither of us would want to live
aboard a
small boat for six months, or even one month.

...especially if it were the same boat!


Perhaps you are projecting. My wife and enjoy each other's company. I
typically engage in my "not at home" hobbies when she is at work. Unlike
you, who seems to have a limitless number of hobbies to get out of the
house and away from your lovely wife.

You're the man, Toad!


Apparently more of a *man* when it comes to women than you are...I'll
bet even your hand turns you down.

I'll bet you are a real charmer. Snerk.

Harrold wrote:
On 11/24/2014 4:08 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/24/14 2:50 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:38:46 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/24/14 1:01 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:34:46 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/24/14 4:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:06:18 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Last year, a high school classmate of mine, a fellow whose prior
boating
experience was plying the waters of LI Sound in a daysailer,
remarried
(he was a widower) and he and his bride spent six months on a 40'
sailboat they chartered going to many ports of call in the
Mediterranean
(and docking the boat and going inland), starting in Spain, with
landings in France, Italy, Albania (yikes!) and Greece, and a
couple of
others I don't recall. That's a trip I'd love to take to put
water under
my keel.

===

You should go, it's a wonderful trip.


Love to, but another two week Greek Isle cruise is more likely.
Neither
my wife nor I are retired, and neither of us would want to live
aboard a
small boat for six months, or even one month.

...especially if it were the same boat!


Perhaps you are projecting. My wife and enjoy each other's company. I
typically engage in my "not at home" hobbies when she is at work. Unlike
you, who seems to have a limitless number of hobbies to get out of the
house and away from your lovely wife.

You're the man, Toad!


Apparently more of a *man* when it comes to women than you are...I'll
bet even your hand turns you down.

I'll bet you are a real charmer. Snerk.

Harry has the same amount of wives as he does bankruptcy.