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The boys must have their toys...
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The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 7:55 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/19/2014 7:13 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 1:07 AM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 23:08:37 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:03 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:36:59 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:29 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote: The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized companies are poor performers, and fail? Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions. Unions had a function 100 years ago but they are anachronisms today. Most of the "protections" they pioneered are now federal law That's just absolute, complete bull****. You never heard of OSHA, NLRB, the various labor laws and last but not least a very litigious society with lawyers trolling for clients every day. Carnegie is not sending the Pinkertons in to shoot strikers, you don't have kids working in unsafe conditions and putting in 72 hours a week for base pay. I think I know a bit more about the real world of labor law and what is enforced and what isn't, generally, than you do. Most of the teeth in many labor laws have been excised, and the NLRB is only a shadow of what it used to be. Are you seriously going to say that there is anything like the kind of labor problems now as they had at the turn of the last century? There are still many serious labor/management problems, and during the Reagan mis-administration, they started getting worse again. Is that why general union membership has gone from about 20 percent of all employed in 1983 to 11.5 percent now? No, it isn't. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 7:55 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/19/2014 7:13 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 1:07 AM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 23:08:37 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:03 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:36:59 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:29 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote: The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized companies are poor performers, and fail? Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions. Unions had a function 100 years ago but they are anachronisms today. Most of the "protections" they pioneered are now federal law That's just absolute, complete bull****. You never heard of OSHA, NLRB, the various labor laws and last but not least a very litigious society with lawyers trolling for clients every day. Carnegie is not sending the Pinkertons in to shoot strikers, you don't have kids working in unsafe conditions and putting in 72 hours a week for base pay. I think I know a bit more about the real world of labor law and what is enforced and what isn't, generally, than you do. Most of the teeth in many labor laws have been excised, and the NLRB is only a shadow of what it used to be. Are you seriously going to say that there is anything like the kind of labor problems now as they had at the turn of the last century? There are still many serious labor/management problems, and during the Reagan mis-administration, they started getting worse again. Is that why general union membership has gone from about 20 percent of all employed in 1983 to 11.5 percent now? Unions seem to be losing their flavor for many. While membership is down, management still prospers. Isn't that one of Harry's pet peeves; rewarding management for poor performance. ;-) |
The boys must have their toys...
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The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 8:03 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/19/2014 7:27 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:18 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where *you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero. Your suspicions would add up to...zero. Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved. You boss always fell at your feet in awe. As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying now"? Yeah, my first full-time newspaper job paid me $100 a week. Yipperdoo. The Associated Press "recruited" me out of that job by doubling that salary, and my first ad/pr agency job in Detroit tripled the AP salary. All chump change jobs, but I did get along with my various bosses. I was recruited out of the Detroit job by the National Education Association. In 1971, I think it was, I was hired by a big DC ad/pr agency for a grand a week, decent pay for a young man in those days. Stayed there for three years, then was hired by another DC ad/pr agency for another pay spike, but I don't remember what it was. The second agency was a lot of fun...it was much more of a "retail" agency with lots of local TV and radio advertising. In 1977, I think, the NEA asked me if I wanted to be a contract consultant to manage some of its national advertising business so I left the agency. Shortly thereafter, I picked up two other international unions as clients, and then I got a contract to produce TV ads for the AFL-CIO building trades department and a national veterans organization. I did ok on the payrolls of others, once my career got going, but much better financially running my own little ad/pr shop. Was your own little ad/pr shop unionized? Actually, yes. Here comes the bull****. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 8:03 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/19/2014 7:27 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:18 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where *you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero. Your suspicions would add up to...zero. Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved. You boss always fell at your feet in awe. As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying now"? Yeah, my first full-time newspaper job paid me $100 a week. Yipperdoo. The Associated Press "recruited" me out of that job by doubling that salary, and my first ad/pr agency job in Detroit tripled the AP salary. All chump change jobs, but I did get along with my various bosses. I was recruited out of the Detroit job by the National Education Association. In 1971, I think it was, I was hired by a big DC ad/pr agency for a grand a week, decent pay for a young man in those days. Stayed there for three years, then was hired by another DC ad/pr agency for another pay spike, but I don't remember what it was. The second agency was a lot of fun...it was much more of a "retail" agency with lots of local TV and radio advertising. In 1977, I think, the NEA asked me if I wanted to be a contract consultant to manage some of its national advertising business so I left the agency. Shortly thereafter, I picked up two other international unions as clients, and then I got a contract to produce TV ads for the AFL-CIO building trades department and a national veterans organization. I did ok on the payrolls of others, once my career got going, but much better financially running my own little ad/pr shop. Was your own little ad/pr shop unionized? Actually, yes. You've made it very clear over the years that unions are near and dear to your heart. Obviously your career and earning power was tied to your association and work for unions. But you are in the minority. The overwhelming majority of employed people are not union, don't want to be union and want nothing to do with unions. Those that *are* union are the ones who complain most about their jobs, their ability to advance (or lack of) due to personal motivation and achievement. It's also interesting that the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? |
The boys must have their toys...
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 4/19/2014 8:03 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/19/2014 7:27 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:18 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where *you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero. Your suspicions would add up to...zero. Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved. You boss always fell at your feet in awe. As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying now"? Yeah, my first full-time newspaper job paid me $100 a week. Yipperdoo. The Associated Press "recruited" me out of that job by doubling that salary, and my first ad/pr agency job in Detroit tripled the AP salary. All chump change jobs, but I did get along with my various bosses. I was recruited out of the Detroit job by the National Education Association. In 1971, I think it was, I was hired by a big DC ad/pr agency for a grand a week, decent pay for a young man in those days. Stayed there for three years, then was hired by another DC ad/pr agency for another pay spike, but I don't remember what it was. The second agency was a lot of fun...it was much more of a "retail" agency with lots of local TV and radio advertising. In 1977, I think, the NEA asked me if I wanted to be a contract consultant to manage some of its national advertising business so I left the agency. Shortly thereafter, I picked up two other international unions as clients, and then I got a contract to produce TV ads for the AFL-CIO building trades department and a national veterans organization. I did ok on the payrolls of others, once my career got going, but much better financially running my own little ad/pr shop. Was your own little ad/pr shop unionized? Actually, yes. You've made it very clear over the years that unions are near and dear to your heart. Obviously your career and earning power was tied to your association and work for unions. But you are in the minority. The overwhelming majority of employed people are not union, don't want to be union and want nothing to do with unions. Those that *are* union are the ones who complain most about their jobs, their ability to advance (or lack of) due to personal motivation and achievement. It's also interesting that the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? Your corporate heroes have sold out this country. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 8:29 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/19/2014 8:03 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/19/2014 7:27 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 11:18 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where *you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero. Your suspicions would add up to...zero. Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved. You boss always fell at your feet in awe. As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying now"? Yeah, my first full-time newspaper job paid me $100 a week. Yipperdoo. The Associated Press "recruited" me out of that job by doubling that salary, and my first ad/pr agency job in Detroit tripled the AP salary. All chump change jobs, but I did get along with my various bosses. I was recruited out of the Detroit job by the National Education Association. In 1971, I think it was, I was hired by a big DC ad/pr agency for a grand a week, decent pay for a young man in those days. Stayed there for three years, then was hired by another DC ad/pr agency for another pay spike, but I don't remember what it was. The second agency was a lot of fun...it was much more of a "retail" agency with lots of local TV and radio advertising. In 1977, I think, the NEA asked me if I wanted to be a contract consultant to manage some of its national advertising business so I left the agency. Shortly thereafter, I picked up two other international unions as clients, and then I got a contract to produce TV ads for the AFL-CIO building trades department and a national veterans organization. I did ok on the payrolls of others, once my career got going, but much better financially running my own little ad/pr shop. Was your own little ad/pr shop unionized? Actually, yes. You've made it very clear over the years that unions are near and dear to your heart. Obviously your career and earning power was tied to your association and work for unions. But you are in the minority. The overwhelming majority of employed people are not union, don't want to be union and want nothing to do with unions. Those that *are* union are the ones who complain most about their jobs, their ability to advance (or lack of) due to personal motivation and achievement. It's also interesting that the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? Your corporate heroes have sold out this country. Ha! You crack me up. What else did I expect? :-) Here's how I view unions. To me they are an added, controlling factor on one's life and ability to pursue a career with as much opportunity as possible in this highly regulated world. Unions tend to create a homogeneous work force where personal motivation or abilities become second to job classification, time in grade and seniority. The closest thing to being in a union for me was 9 years active duty in the Navy. It's also why, when my contract was up, I exited stage left. Like a union, opportunity for advancement and earning power is limited to time in grade, in service and the needs of the service. I wanted more than that in life. Due to the path I took I had the opportunity to know many, many people working for a living, union and non-union. By far the happiest and most satisfied people were non-union. There are those who work primarily to support their families and lifestyles. Not all are motivated to "climb the career ladder". Nothing wrong with that. There are also those who put forth a little extra .... sometimes a *lot* extra because they want to do the very best they can. Usually those people become more valuable to a company and they *do* succeed. If a slow period comes and lay-offs are required the more motivated are the last to go, regardless of how long they have worked for the company. Unions don't consider that. Everyone is equally qualified, so seniority rules. I am surprised unions don't issue uniforms and have haircut regulations. |
The boys must have their toys...
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The boys must have their toys...
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? |
The boys must have their toys...
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... |
The boys must have their toys...
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:47:31 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:
And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? === And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 10:10 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... I certainly did admire the the good old days of labor union organizers/negotiators, where the guys did whatever was necessary to get workers a decent contract. Compared to today's corporate felons, the good old boys were creampuffs. |
The boys must have their toys...
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:38:01 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 10:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... I certainly did admire the the good old days of labor union organizers/negotiators, where the guys did whatever was necessary to get workers a decent contract. Compared to today's corporate felons, the good old boys were creampuffs. So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 10:46 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:38:01 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 10:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... I certainly did admire the the good old days of labor union organizers/negotiators, where the guys did whatever was necessary to get workers a decent contract. Compared to today's corporate felons, the good old boys were creampuffs. So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. Those would be the pillars of bankstering, stock brokerage, and corporate greed these days, Tim. |
The boys must have their toys...
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:48:03 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 10:46 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:38:01 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 10:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... I certainly did admire the the good old days of labor union organizers/negotiators, where the guys did whatever was necessary to get workers a decent contract. Compared to today's corporate felons, the good old boys were creampuffs. So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. Those would be the pillars of bankstering, stock brokerage, and corporate greed these days, Tim. But you don't admire the banksters, only the thugs of the past. and probably wish they were more prevalent today. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:48:03 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. Those would be the pillars of bankstering, stock brokerage, and corporate greed these days, Tim. But you don't admire the banksters, only the thugs of the past. and probably wish they were more prevalent today. I knew a few of the "old time" labor tough guys. They were far higher up the ladder of decency than many of today's corporate gangsters. Even the old style mobsters were far less crooked than, say, Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs or Citibank, eh? |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 9:47 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? At $120k, your friend is pretty far down on the salary list at the Bricklayers. So how do those folks rate such salaries? They must be doing "white man's work" Eh? |
The boys must have their toys...
Harry, it seems you idolize thugs and approve of their methods. What a sad way to live
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The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 10:46 AM, Tim wrote:
So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. Harry appears to advocate violent behavior, yet he was scared to enlist or allow himself to be drafted. What do you make of that? |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 10:48 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 10:46 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:38:01 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 10:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:04:06 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:47:31 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Does Dave Bacon threaten to blow peoples brains out if thy dont' sign contracts in two minutes? No. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think there should be criminal penalties for corporate executives whose poor management skills result in serious injuries or death to workers, or horrific explosions, or nasty pollution that makes people sick? No, but you said you admire people like that... I certainly did admire the the good old days of labor union organizers/negotiators, where the guys did whatever was necessary to get workers a decent contract. Compared to today's corporate felons, the good old boys were creampuffs. So you admire the extortioners, murders, lawless butchers and arsonists. Yeah, the pillars of labor. Those would be the pillars of bankstering, stock brokerage, and corporate greed these days, Tim. These days arent them days, when you were rubbing elbows with the scum of the earth. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 11:09 AM, Tim wrote:
Harry, it seems you idolize thugs and approve of their methods. What a sad way to live If I were as you described, I'd be a big fan of corporations and banksters, as they've been the major players in "thuggery" for the past three decades. You want thuggery? "On March 19, 1997, investigators from the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Health and Human Services served search warrants at Columbia/HCA facilities in El Paso and on dozens of doctors with suspected ties to the company. 8 Days after the initial raid, Scott* signed his last SEC report as a hospital executive. Four months later the board of directors pressured Scott to resign as Chairman and CEO. He was paid $9.88 million in a settlement. He also left owning 10 million shares of stock worth over $350 million. The directors had been warned in the company's annual public reports to stockholders that incentives Columbia/HCA offered doctors could run afoul of a federal antikickback law that seeks to limit conflicts of interest in Medicare and Medicaid. In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies. In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims. In all, civil lawsuits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, at the time, the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. * Scott is Rick Scott, the felon who is the current Republican governor of Florida. The fraud mentioned got rolling during Scott's tenure as CEO of HCA. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 9:47 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 9:40 AM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:14:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: the majority of remaining union jobs are also federal jobs. Why is that? The Davis Bacon Act There are also the state/local government employees who are sucking the fiscal life out of our cities. They get to "negotiate" from both sides of the bargaining table so their deals are budget busters. And once again, you display your lack of knowledge. Jobs covered under Davis Bacon are, for the most part, *not* federal jobs. They are construction worker jobs for workers employed by private contactors. It's astonishing to me that so many of your righties here are so damned opposed to hard-working men and women earning incomes that just reach the bottom of the rung of the middle class. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the majority of these workers aren't big earners. And, of course, you never bitch about the huge salaries the corporate suits make. *That's* okay, because pushing paper or keyboard keys is white man's work, eh? Yawn. That's why almost 90 percent of workers prefer to be non-union. Your arguments are so ... 40's and 50's. Old news, old rhetoric, old period. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 11:41 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 11:09 AM, Tim wrote: Harry, it seems you idolize thugs and approve of their methods. What a sad way to live If I were as you described, I'd be a big fan of corporations and banksters, as they've been the major players in "thuggery" for the past three decades. You want thuggery? "On March 19, 1997, investigators from the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Health and Human Services served search warrants at Columbia/HCA facilities in El Paso and on dozens of doctors with suspected ties to the company. 8 Days after the initial raid, Scott* signed his last SEC report as a hospital executive. Four months later the board of directors pressured Scott to resign as Chairman and CEO. He was paid $9.88 million in a settlement. He also left owning 10 million shares of stock worth over $350 million. The directors had been warned in the company's annual public reports to stockholders that incentives Columbia/HCA offered doctors could run afoul of a federal antikickback law that seeks to limit conflicts of interest in Medicare and Medicaid. In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies. In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims. In all, civil lawsuits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, at the time, the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. * Scott is Rick Scott, the felon who is the current Republican governor of Florida. The fraud mentioned got rolling during Scott's tenure as CEO of HCA. Look up the definition of thuggery. Yur book learnin has failed you miserably. |
The boys must have their toys...
But, but Scott didn't bust any knee caps like your Heros would
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The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 1:37 PM, Tim wrote:
But, but Scott didn't bust any knee caps like your Heros would How do you know that? |
The boys must have their toys...
Because if he did you'd probably praise him too.
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The boys must have their toys...
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The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 4:33 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: I knew a few of the "old time" labor tough guys. They were far higher up the ladder of decency than many of today's corporate gangsters. Even the old style mobsters were far less crooked than, say, Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs or Citibank, eh? I am betting you did not really know much about the terrorists who "organized" companies in the old days. Arson, intimidation and the general destruction of corporate property was not unusual. Don't forget, I grew up with those old guys in the Teamsters. Petty crimes compared to the horror perpetrated these days by mulltinational corporations. I am thinking that global markets and multinational corporations are a bit more complex for you to understand given your card carrying union status. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 4:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/19/2014 4:33 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: I knew a few of the "old time" labor tough guys. They were far higher up the ladder of decency than many of today's corporate gangsters. Even the old style mobsters were far less crooked than, say, Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs or Citibank, eh? I am betting you did not really know much about the terrorists who "organized" companies in the old days. Arson, intimidation and the general destruction of corporate property was not unusual. Don't forget, I grew up with those old guys in the Teamsters. Petty crimes compared to the horror perpetrated these days by mulltinational corporations. I am thinking that global markets and multinational corporations are a bit more complex for you to understand given your card carrying union status. That's just silly. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/2014 4:50 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 4:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/19/2014 4:33 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: I knew a few of the "old time" labor tough guys. They were far higher up the ladder of decency than many of today's corporate gangsters. Even the old style mobsters were far less crooked than, say, Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs or Citibank, eh? I am betting you did not really know much about the terrorists who "organized" companies in the old days. Arson, intimidation and the general destruction of corporate property was not unusual. Don't forget, I grew up with those old guys in the Teamsters. Petty crimes compared to the horror perpetrated these days by mulltinational corporations. I am thinking that global markets and multinational corporations are a bit more complex for you to understand given your card carrying union status. That's just silly. uh huh. |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/19/14, 5:21 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 16:33:08 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/19/14, 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: I knew a few of the "old time" labor tough guys. They were far higher up the ladder of decency than many of today's corporate gangsters. Even the old style mobsters were far less crooked than, say, Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs or Citibank, eh? I am betting you did not really know much about the terrorists who "organized" companies in the old days. Arson, intimidation and the general destruction of corporate property was not unusual. Don't forget, I grew up with those old guys in the Teamsters. Petty crimes compared to the horror perpetrated these days by mulltinational corporations. That does beg the question "why hasn't Holder prosecuted any of those cases"? For reasons I don't understand, we don't really criminally prosecute many of the big and serious corporate horrors. Even your current governor's former company got off the hook with a big fine. |
The boys must have their toys...
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The boys must have their toys...
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/18/14, 3:59 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:22:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: Funny stuff. Railroads pay living wages to their employees, and that really, truly ****es off right-wing assholes. Actually what ****es us off is paying premium wages to "fire proof" employees who fall asleep in the cab and crash their trains, derail with hazardous cargo and put us all in danger.. I'd bet far more rail accidents and fatalities are the result of corporate decisions, such as deferred maintenance, shorting of crews, working of crews too many hours. You righties are funny guys, in that you will readily dismiss all manner of corporate misbehavior, but if you can pin a rap on a working stiff, you're all for it. Sort of like texting to the girl friend while supposedly driving the train? Crash! |
The boys must have their toys...
On 4/22/2014 11:03 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote: On 4/18/14, 3:59 PM, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:22:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote: Funny stuff. Railroads pay living wages to their employees, and that really, truly ****es off right-wing assholes. Actually what ****es us off is paying premium wages to "fire proof" employees who fall asleep in the cab and crash their trains, derail with hazardous cargo and put us all in danger.. I'd bet far more rail accidents and fatalities are the result of corporate decisions, such as deferred maintenance, shorting of crews, working of crews too many hours. You righties are funny guys, in that you will readily dismiss all manner of corporate misbehavior, but if you can pin a rap on a working stiff, you're all for it. Sort of like texting to the girl friend while supposedly driving the train? Crash! They are already blaming a couple of those accidents on "management" for making them sit in a chair and pay attention 8 hours a day to earn their pay... |
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