Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/14, 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:07:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


OK, I guess they have fixed that crime problem. Maybe it is safe to go
to Bulletmore again. (last year they murdered 333)
I am sure all of those gang bangers are lining up for their HQL.
They can save the $100 because the cops already have their
fingerprints.



I drive up to Baltimore about every two weeks for a day long or half day
long marketing meeting with a client. Never encountered any problems. Go
there for dinner frequently, too. Probably fewer guys up there playing
banjo and forcing themselves anally on other guys than in Redneckville,
where you live, eh?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/14, 11:58 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:33:31 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I drive up to Baltimore about every two weeks for a day long or half day
long marketing meeting with a client. Never encountered any problems. Go
there for dinner frequently, too. Probably fewer guys up there playing
banjo and forcing themselves anally on other guys than in Redneckville,
where you live, eh?

That only happens up around Jacksonville where the real rednecks are.
(AKA South Georgia)
BTW Miami, the most dangerous city in Florida has a murder rate of
16.8 per 100,000. Bulletmore is over 37.

I would say you are just lucky or you don't actually move around much
there.



I've only been shot at twice in the United States, once in Mississippi
and once in Louisiana.

I had a firearm pulled on me in the Miami area by a rentacop. This was
after Hurricane Andrew when a labor organizer and I were returning a van
we had rented to depot near the airport. We had a lot of stuff and were
unloading it near where the shuttle bus would take us to the airport.
The site's rentacop didn't like that and had "words" with my buddy, who
wasn't having any of it. It got a little heated, and the rentacop drew
his pistol and waved it at us. My buddy disarmed the rentacop and had
the moron on the ground "faster than a speeding bullet," as it were. :)

This was an "old school" labor organizer, the ones I admired from the
good old days. You know, "either your signature or your brains will be
on the contract in the next two minutes..." Unfortunately that sort of
understandable "pressure" and violence has been replaced by the tactics
of the banksters and wall street lawyers.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/2014 5:57 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:07:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


OK, I guess they have fixed that crime problem. Maybe it is safe to go
to Bulletmore again. (last year they murdered 333)
I am sure all of those gang bangers are lining up for their HQL.
They can save the $100 because the cops already have their
fingerprints.

If you possessed said handgun prior to October 1st 2013 you do not need
to obtain an HQL to continue to posses said handgun after October 1st
2013. Therefore, if the criminals already had their illegally obtained
handguns in their possession they are not required to obtain an HQL to
continue to posses their illegal handguns.

The fingerprints have to be scanned electronically from your finger
tips. No paper and ink prints are accepted. No prior prints are
acceptable either. Mine have been on-file with the feds since I was 16,
when I was hired by the USDA.



Massachusetts requires ink fingerprints for the permit. The state also
required an electronic fingerprint check at the time of each gun
purchase from a dealer up to about 6 months ago. Dealers had the
electronic pad and it was included in the background check they made at
time of purchase. For every purchase, regardless of how long you had a
permit, a criminal background check along with the electronic
fingerprint was required. The dealer electronic fingerprint check was
eliminated however. They now require a "PIN" number that is issued with
your permit.

Funny thing is, I can buy or sell a firearm from or to anyone without
any checks as long as we each have an active and appropriate MA permit.
It's up to the buyer and seller to confirm. A transaction report is
required however but it can be done easily on-line at the time of transfer.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/14, 6:45 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 5:57 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:07:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled
out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an
additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a
cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a
couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add
about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


OK, I guess they have fixed that crime problem. Maybe it is safe to go
to Bulletmore again. (last year they murdered 333)
I am sure all of those gang bangers are lining up for their HQL.
They can save the $100 because the cops already have their
fingerprints.

If you possessed said handgun prior to October 1st 2013 you do not need
to obtain an HQL to continue to posses said handgun after October 1st
2013. Therefore, if the criminals already had their illegally obtained
handguns in their possession they are not required to obtain an HQL to
continue to posses their illegal handguns.

The fingerprints have to be scanned electronically from your finger
tips. No paper and ink prints are accepted. No prior prints are
acceptable either. Mine have been on-file with the feds since I was 16,
when I was hired by the USDA.



Massachusetts requires ink fingerprints for the permit. The state also
required an electronic fingerprint check at the time of each gun
purchase from a dealer up to about 6 months ago. Dealers had the
electronic pad and it was included in the background check they made at
time of purchase. For every purchase, regardless of how long you had a
permit, a criminal background check along with the electronic
fingerprint was required. The dealer electronic fingerprint check was
eliminated however. They now require a "PIN" number that is issued with
your permit.

Funny thing is, I can buy or sell a firearm from or to anyone without
any checks as long as we each have an active and appropriate MA permit.
It's up to the buyer and seller to confirm. A transaction report is
required however but it can be done easily on-line at the time of transfer.




Do you know why they dropped the electronic fingerprint scan? A statie I
know says he thinks it was added here because a large number of private
security firms which had the scanning devices wanted an increased
revenue stream. If I had to get it done, I'd go to one of the local
sheriff's offices that does it. Same price, but one less corporate whore
with a payday. When I got my first carry permit, an ordinary ink
fingerprint card from the local sheriff's office was good enough, and
was either free or $5 or $10.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/11/2014 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Well then Krause is full of bull****. I shot a SW 686-6+ and the trigger
was smooth as silk with no slack.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger
before it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward
movement of the trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun
mechanism fires the round. It's not roughness, it's distance.
"Roughness" is another aspect of trigger pull. You can have trigger
creep without roughness in the trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can
actually feel in the mechanism usually is a telltale sign of a poorly
finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did
not. Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,
I'd pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/12/2014 7:59 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you
filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or
shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok,
you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to
wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an
additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are
not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've
taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have
submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a
couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun
have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted,
and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes
add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here
have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large
capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however,
typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting
ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police
department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry
permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put
restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his
fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check
performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an
approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a
lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers
and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you
would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both
brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two
used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after
you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is
probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger
before it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward
movement of the trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun
mechanism fires the round. It's not roughness, it's distance.
"Roughness" is another aspect of trigger pull. You can have trigger
creep without roughness in the trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can
actually feel in the mechanism usually is a telltale sign of a poorly
finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did
not. Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,
I'd pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.
The custom CZ you had was a dangerous gun. I wouldn't give you a nickle
for it.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

BAR wrote:
In article , says...

On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger
before it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward
movement of the trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun
mechanism fires the round. It's not roughness, it's distance.
"Roughness" is another aspect of trigger pull. You can have trigger
creep without roughness in the trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can
actually feel in the mechanism usually is a telltale sign of a poorly
finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did
not. Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,
I'd pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

Aren't you prohibited form possessing firearms in Maryland? Too bad you
moved out of Virginia. If you had stayed in Virginia you could have
continued to kill stumpy on a weekly basis.

Bertie! You are still here? I guess you aren't filtered yet on my iPhone
app. No, **** for brains, I am not prohibited from legally buying regulated
firearms in Maryland. I just bought a new revolver that will be shipped
soon to a local FFL. You should cut back on those Bircher fantasies about
me. Why don't you go apply for a Maryland carry permit? Oh darn... *you*
can't get one. 😟

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:49:37 AM UTC-4, F. O. A. D. wrote:
BAR wrote:

In article , says...



On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:

F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:

H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:

On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a

couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,

the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took

the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait

seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional

background check.



Simple enough.



Now, there's another layer.



If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,

you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and

there are several variables.



First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a

qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea..



Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on

their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of

local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.



Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and

fingerprinting.



It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.



The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have

gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and

another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about

two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.





Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been

for years:



1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.

2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.

Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity

firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically

no more than 10 rounds.



Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges

and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.



3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.

You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.



4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions

on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.



5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed

by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor

traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved

permit. Some people have waited for several months.









Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot

more, other than the time period.



I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and

S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would

expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands

of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.



I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,

had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did

not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the

action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.



What's trigger creep?



Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get

some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably

referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.





No, I am not.



Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?





Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger

before it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward

movement of the trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun

mechanism fires the round. It's not roughness, it's distance.

"Roughness" is another aspect of trigger pull. You can have trigger

creep without roughness in the trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can

actually feel in the mechanism usually is a telltale sign of a poorly

finished gun.



The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the

range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did

not. Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers



A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of

trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of

slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,

I'd pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.



Aren't you prohibited form possessing firearms in Maryland? Too bad you

moved out of Virginia. If you had stayed in Virginia you could have

continued to kill stumpy on a weekly basis.



Bertie! You are still here? I guess you aren't filtered yet on my iPhone

app. No, **** for brains, I am not prohibited from legally buying regulated

firearms in Maryland. I just bought a new revolver that will be shipped

soon to a local FFL. You should cut back on those Bircher fantasies about

me. Why don't you go apply for a Maryland carry permit? Oh darn... *you*

can't get one. 😟

Has the IRS come to audit your books yet, ****?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun, I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/14/14, 12:16 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun, I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2_8X5eg3uE

Or in the really big leagues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXJrgugePI

No trigger creep in these firearms.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

In article , says...


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2_8X5eg3uE

Or in the really big leagues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXJrgugePI

No trigger creep in these firearms.

About as exciting as a typing contest.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/14/2014 6:50 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/14/14, 12:16 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you
filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or
shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok,
you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had
to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an
additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are
not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License
(HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've
taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have
submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a
couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the
training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a
handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get
fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes
add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here
have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful,
large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is
however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to
shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police
department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed
carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put
restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits
his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check
performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than
minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an
approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not
a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few
Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you
would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both
brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two
used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new,
did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance
after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is
probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger
before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of
the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did
not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,
I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.
What is trigger creep? Is it contagious?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name
in there somewhere.


You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and
commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR
driver or mechanic?

I posted the USPSA clip because the clip I wanted to post I couldn't
find on Youtube.

Oh, and Israel *for sure* would have attacked Iraq if we hadn't. Right.
Of course.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/14/14, 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:07:42 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name
in there somewhere.


You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and
commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR
driver or mechanic?

You are the one who was acting like you needed a race gun quality
trigger. We assumed you must be shooting competitively somewhere.

If you were telling us about your Winston Cup ready car I would ask
where you were racing that too.


I was shooting competitively, but I stopped some time ago. I prefer
triggers with no trigger creep or almost no creep, probably because I
got used to shooting a gun without any. If my new wheelgun comes in with
any and it is bothersome, I'll have a gunsmith "tune" it out.

Found a local bait and tackle store with a very decent supply of ammo at
"mail order prices," or close to it. I was surprised. Friend who tries
to buy ammo at China-Mart says if he goes there at a certain time of
day, the sporting goods manager, if he is there, will check the "cage"
in the receiving department (assuming the shelves are bare) and fetch
ammo for him before it goes on the shelves. The stuff isn't stocked as
it comes in because first it is locked in the receiver's cage.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On Monday, April 14, 2014 12:51:20 PM UTC-4, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/14/14, 12:29 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:07:42 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:





Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll

never win.



I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name

in there somewhere.





You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and

commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR

driver or mechanic?



You are the one who was acting like you needed a race gun quality

trigger. We assumed you must be shooting competitively somewhere.



If you were telling us about your Winston Cup ready car I would ask

where you were racing that too.





I was shooting competitively, but I stopped some time ago. I prefer

triggers with no trigger creep or almost no creep, probably because I

got used to shooting a gun without any. If my new wheelgun comes in with

any and it is bothersome, I'll have a gunsmith "tune" it out.



Found a local bait and tackle store with a very decent supply of ammo at

"mail order prices," or close to it. I was surprised. Friend who tries

to buy ammo at China-Mart says if he goes there at a certain time of

day, the sporting goods manager, if he is there, will check the "cage"

in the receiving department (assuming the shelves are bare) and fetch

ammo for him before it goes on the shelves. The stuff isn't stocked as

it comes in because first it is locked in the receiver's cage.

DO US ALL A FAVOUR, KRAUSE...DROP ****ING DEAD.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 07:23:56 -0400, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:

On 4/11/2014 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Well then Krause is full of bull****. I shot a SW 686-6+ and the trigger
was smooth as silk with no slack.

The first sentence tells us nothing new. Having not fired the revolver, I can't comment on the
second, other than to say I'd have a lot more confidence in what you said than what Krause said.

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

On 4/16/14, 10:48 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 07:23:56 -0400, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:

On 4/11/2014 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Well then Krause is full of bull****. I shot a SW 686-6+ and the trigger
was smooth as silk with no slack.

The first sentence tells us nothing new. Having not fired the revolver, I can't comment on the
second, other than to say I'd have a lot more confidence in what you said than what Krause said.



From the firearms questions and statements you have posted here, one
might easily conclude you know no more about handguns/pistols than you
do about golf, playing the guitar, or model airplanes. And the only
"creep" your Florida buddy knows about is the one he sees in the mirror
in the morning when he shaves. If he shaves.

So, how was your tour of the Amsterdam sex shops? Were you the biggest
dildo there?

Update to Maryland firearm purchase...
 

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 07:23:56 -0400, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:

On 4/11/2014 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Well then Krause is full of bull****. I shot a SW 686-6+ and the trigger
was smooth as silk with no slack.

The first sentence tells us nothing new. Having not fired the revolver, I
can't comment on the
second, other than to say I'd have a lot more confidence in what you said
than what Krause said.

I have had roughness in a new gun. Have even found a machining metal
shaving, messing up the feed on a new Ithaca mdl37 20 gauge I bought years
ago. And some guns are smooth, but still a POS. My Remington 7400
jam-o-magic a prime example.