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Sad Faces in the Unions Today
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/15/14, 5:26 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:41:52 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: http://tinyurl.com/lp99as6 Damn shame. That'll put some folks in a real sour mood. I reckon those Southerners aren't so stupid after all. Perhaps the union organizer said it best: "Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that would grow jobs in Tennessee," UAW Southern Region organizer Gary Casteel said." Those damn politically motivated third parties. Of course, the UAW Southern Region is in no way politically motivated. Right, FOAD? It appears that they rejected the idea of a union that was in bed with the company they were working for. That is the way unions are in most of those foreign country union people like to cite. It's a young "workforce." They make more money than the GM, Ford or Chrysler workers. As long as they are well-treated by management, they're ok. That's how all the foreign brands keep the union out. It works, and will continue to work until workers are mistreated. The ultimate goal of right-wing politicians in right to work states is to break unions and the union movement so businesses can lower pay and benefits to workers. It has nothing to do with the right to work. No, the workers aren't forced to pay dues to do-nothings that **** their money away. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/15/14, 5:54 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On 2/15/14, 5:26 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:41:52 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: http://tinyurl.com/lp99as6 Damn shame. That'll put some folks in a real sour mood. I reckon those Southerners aren't so stupid after all. Perhaps the union organizer said it best: "Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that would grow jobs in Tennessee," UAW Southern Region organizer Gary Casteel said." Those damn politically motivated third parties. Of course, the UAW Southern Region is in no way politically motivated. Right, FOAD? It appears that they rejected the idea of a union that was in bed with the company they were working for. That is the way unions are in most of those foreign country union people like to cite. It's a young "workforce." They make more money than the GM, Ford or Chrysler workers. As long as they are well-treated by management, they're ok. That's how all the foreign brands keep the union out. It works, and will continue to work until workers are mistreated. The ultimate goal of right-wing politicians in right to work states is to break unions and the union movement so businesses can lower pay and benefits to workers. It has nothing to do with the right to work. Can't blame the politicians. It was the workers who voted the union down. Do you know what the politicians there were threatening, including a U.S. Senator, if the workers voted to go union? Do you? That would have been all over the news. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/15/14, 7:38 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:26:00 -0600, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:41:52 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: http://tinyurl.com/lp99as6 Damn shame. That'll put some folks in a real sour mood. I reckon those Southerners aren't so stupid after all. Perhaps the union organizer said it best: "Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that would grow jobs in Tennessee," UAW Southern Region organizer Gary Casteel said." Those damn politically motivated third parties. Of course, the UAW Southern Region is in no way politically motivated. Right, FOAD? It appears that they rejected the idea of a union that was in bed with the company they were working for. That is the way unions are in most of those foreign country union people like to cite. It's a young "workforce." They make more money than the GM, Ford or Chrysler workers. As long as they are well-treated by management, they're ok. That's how all the foreign brands keep the union out. It works, and will continue to work until workers are mistreated. IBM did the same thing. I read the other day that IBM is downsizing in an attempt to raise its share price. It's called economics. Google it. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:37:38 -0800, thumper wrote: On 2/15/2014 5:14 PM, wrote: On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 19:44:01 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote: I read the other day that IBM is downsizing in an attempt to raise its share price. I am not even sure what IBM's new business model is going to be. they don't seem to want to make anything or do anything that involves employees. They still have an excellent SiGe (silicon/germanium) IC process that is wonderful for very high speed analog/digital ICs and made in Burlington, VT. Unfortunately the wafer cost is higher than pure CMOS from TSMC Taiwan and few are willing to pay a little more for the performance. I loved designing on that process. They have sold off the server business to Lenovo and I would not be surprised if Burlington goes with a deal like that. They are heading in the direction of Motorola. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
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Sad Faces in the Unions Today
On 2/23/2014 7:57 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/23/14, 1:17 AM, wrote: On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:53:02 -0500, "Earl! " . wrote: F*O*A*D wrote: The state's politicians poisoned the well with direct and indirect threats to jobs. Cite? It is another stretch of the facts from Harry. What the state said is they *might* rethink FUTURE tax incentives for NEW plants. It had nothing to do with current employees. Uh-huh, sure, Gregg. Right. Of course. And Senator Corker didn't play a role at the end, either, and the workers weren't left with the impression that if they voted union the state might play fun and games with their employer. Well, we shall see what happens. Corker said if the workers voted no, VW would be building another plant in their state then...he reneged on that statement after the vote, and that had nothing to do with the vote, either. Luckily, VW's workers in Germany will have something to say about future plants in the United States. I had two business associates who were executives in a major German engineering and manufacturing company. Both left Germany and relocated to the US. One joined and later started a similar company here. The other joined my company. Why? Because the German style of management/employee co-running the business drove them nuts. I had a very democratic philosophy in the running of the business I had but soon realized that there were limits to how much control employees should have in decision making. It's not that the corporation's goals were at odds with the employee's ... it's simply a case where the employees typically were looking at issues from a personal point of view rather than a more global view required to successfully manage and run a company. We all have jobs to do, all are important but people are better at some things than others. We had a very knowledgeable thin films engineer on our staff. We would meet with a prospective customer who also had thin film engineers who typically wrote the technical specifications and requirements for a system they wanted us to design and build. In several cases, our "expert" would start challenging the customer's approach because he didn't agree with it, promoting *his* way of doing it. This happened two or three times, resulting in customers becoming uneasy with awarding a contract to us. To me, it's ok to offer alternative ways of doing things if you think they will benefit the customer, but not to the point where you are actually insulting them or causing them to think their system will not receive our best efforts. He didn't last long in my democracy. He ended up starting his own company that fell flat on it's face in a short period of time. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
On 2/23/14, 8:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2014 7:57 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 2/23/14, 1:17 AM, wrote: On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:53:02 -0500, "Earl! " . wrote: F*O*A*D wrote: The state's politicians poisoned the well with direct and indirect threats to jobs. Cite? It is another stretch of the facts from Harry. What the state said is they *might* rethink FUTURE tax incentives for NEW plants. It had nothing to do with current employees. Uh-huh, sure, Gregg. Right. Of course. And Senator Corker didn't play a role at the end, either, and the workers weren't left with the impression that if they voted union the state might play fun and games with their employer. Well, we shall see what happens. Corker said if the workers voted no, VW would be building another plant in their state then...he reneged on that statement after the vote, and that had nothing to do with the vote, either. Luckily, VW's workers in Germany will have something to say about future plants in the United States. I had two business associates who were executives in a major German engineering and manufacturing company. Both left Germany and relocated to the US. One joined and later started a similar company here. The other joined my company. Why? Because the German style of management/employee co-running the business drove them nuts. I had a very democratic philosophy in the running of the business I had but soon realized that there were limits to how much control employees should have in decision making. It's not that the corporation's goals were at odds with the employee's ... it's simply a case where the employees typically were looking at issues from a personal point of view rather than a more global view required to successfully manage and run a company. We all have jobs to do, all are important but people are better at some things than others. We had a very knowledgeable thin films engineer on our staff. We would meet with a prospective customer who also had thin film engineers who typically wrote the technical specifications and requirements for a system they wanted us to design and build. In several cases, our "expert" would start challenging the customer's approach because he didn't agree with it, promoting *his* way of doing it. This happened two or three times, resulting in customers becoming uneasy with awarding a contract to us. To me, it's ok to offer alternative ways of doing things if you think they will benefit the customer, but not to the point where you are actually insulting them or causing them to think their system will not receive our best efforts. He didn't last long in my democracy. He ended up starting his own company that fell flat on it's face in a short period of time. Perhaps part of the fault with much corporate management these days is in thinking that capital is many times superior to labor. To me, capital and labor should be on the same step. Capital is not more valuable than labor. I'm not advocating workplace democracy...someone has to be in charge...but I am advocating treating everyone and everything involved as valuable assets. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
On 2/23/2014 8:47 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/23/14, 8:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/23/2014 7:57 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 2/23/14, 1:17 AM, wrote: On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:53:02 -0500, "Earl! " . wrote: F*O*A*D wrote: The state's politicians poisoned the well with direct and indirect threats to jobs. Cite? It is another stretch of the facts from Harry. What the state said is they *might* rethink FUTURE tax incentives for NEW plants. It had nothing to do with current employees. Uh-huh, sure, Gregg. Right. Of course. And Senator Corker didn't play a role at the end, either, and the workers weren't left with the impression that if they voted union the state might play fun and games with their employer. Well, we shall see what happens. Corker said if the workers voted no, VW would be building another plant in their state then...he reneged on that statement after the vote, and that had nothing to do with the vote, either. Luckily, VW's workers in Germany will have something to say about future plants in the United States. I had two business associates who were executives in a major German engineering and manufacturing company. Both left Germany and relocated to the US. One joined and later started a similar company here. The other joined my company. Why? Because the German style of management/employee co-running the business drove them nuts. I had a very democratic philosophy in the running of the business I had but soon realized that there were limits to how much control employees should have in decision making. It's not that the corporation's goals were at odds with the employee's ... it's simply a case where the employees typically were looking at issues from a personal point of view rather than a more global view required to successfully manage and run a company. We all have jobs to do, all are important but people are better at some things than others. We had a very knowledgeable thin films engineer on our staff. We would meet with a prospective customer who also had thin film engineers who typically wrote the technical specifications and requirements for a system they wanted us to design and build. In several cases, our "expert" would start challenging the customer's approach because he didn't agree with it, promoting *his* way of doing it. This happened two or three times, resulting in customers becoming uneasy with awarding a contract to us. To me, it's ok to offer alternative ways of doing things if you think they will benefit the customer, but not to the point where you are actually insulting them or causing them to think their system will not receive our best efforts. He didn't last long in my democracy. He ended up starting his own company that fell flat on it's face in a short period of time. Perhaps part of the fault with much corporate management these days is in thinking that capital is many times superior to labor. To me, capital and labor should be on the same step. Capital is not more valuable than labor. I'm not advocating workplace democracy...someone has to be in charge...but I am advocating treating everyone and everything involved as valuable assets. Treating everyone as valuable assets is critical but so is treating the company and it's future as a valuable asset as well. Again, it's a team and each group or person has a job to do based on their area of expertise. I can't see having the worker's having equal say in a major decision such as in the case of the German model whereby they can control where VW builds a plant in the USA. It may work or be traditional in Germany (or at least be the norm) but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work everywhere. The German system is not without it's problems, be assured. It might sound like utopia for someone like yourself with strong union ties/interests but I've had many discussions with the two German associates that indicate otherwise. The shear bureaucratic complexity of how they must operate is one of the reasons my little company often kicked the major German company's rear time and time again after we got rolling. The German competitor was no slouch either. They were a multi-billion dollar company with a world-wide market. |
Sad Faces in the Unions Today
On 2/23/14, 9:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2014 8:47 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 2/23/14, 8:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/23/2014 7:57 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 2/23/14, 1:17 AM, wrote: On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:53:02 -0500, "Earl! " . wrote: F*O*A*D wrote: The state's politicians poisoned the well with direct and indirect threats to jobs. Cite? It is another stretch of the facts from Harry. What the state said is they *might* rethink FUTURE tax incentives for NEW plants. It had nothing to do with current employees. Uh-huh, sure, Gregg. Right. Of course. And Senator Corker didn't play a role at the end, either, and the workers weren't left with the impression that if they voted union the state might play fun and games with their employer. Well, we shall see what happens. Corker said if the workers voted no, VW would be building another plant in their state then...he reneged on that statement after the vote, and that had nothing to do with the vote, either. Luckily, VW's workers in Germany will have something to say about future plants in the United States. I had two business associates who were executives in a major German engineering and manufacturing company. Both left Germany and relocated to the US. One joined and later started a similar company here. The other joined my company. Why? Because the German style of management/employee co-running the business drove them nuts. I had a very democratic philosophy in the running of the business I had but soon realized that there were limits to how much control employees should have in decision making. It's not that the corporation's goals were at odds with the employee's ... it's simply a case where the employees typically were looking at issues from a personal point of view rather than a more global view required to successfully manage and run a company. We all have jobs to do, all are important but people are better at some things than others. We had a very knowledgeable thin films engineer on our staff. We would meet with a prospective customer who also had thin film engineers who typically wrote the technical specifications and requirements for a system they wanted us to design and build. In several cases, our "expert" would start challenging the customer's approach because he didn't agree with it, promoting *his* way of doing it. This happened two or three times, resulting in customers becoming uneasy with awarding a contract to us. To me, it's ok to offer alternative ways of doing things if you think they will benefit the customer, but not to the point where you are actually insulting them or causing them to think their system will not receive our best efforts. He didn't last long in my democracy. He ended up starting his own company that fell flat on it's face in a short period of time. Perhaps part of the fault with much corporate management these days is in thinking that capital is many times superior to labor. To me, capital and labor should be on the same step. Capital is not more valuable than labor. I'm not advocating workplace democracy...someone has to be in charge...but I am advocating treating everyone and everything involved as valuable assets. Treating everyone as valuable assets is critical but so is treating the company and it's future as a valuable asset as well. Again, it's a team and each group or person has a job to do based on their area of expertise. I can't see having the worker's having equal say in a major decision such as in the case of the German model whereby they can control where VW builds a plant in the USA. It may work or be traditional in Germany (or at least be the norm) but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work everywhere. The German system is not without it's problems, be assured. It might sound like utopia for someone like yourself with strong union ties/interests but I've had many discussions with the two German associates that indicate otherwise. The shear bureaucratic complexity of how they must operate is one of the reasons my little company often kicked the major German company's rear time and time again after we got rolling. The German competitor was no slouch either. They were a multi-billion dollar company with a world-wide market. I would assume every complex system has its problems. If the German auto workers prevent VW from building another factory in Tennessee or another anti-worker state, it'll make me smile. |
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