Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.


I think you are just way too far detached from the situation to
understand... Not trying to be an ass, but just by your tone and
comments, I can see that.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 2:01 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug.

===

My oldest son once came home and said something like that. I told
him it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard him say. The problem
with heroin is its extraordinarily addictive quality that never seems
to let go once a user is hooked.


Jessi and I won't do any opiate, even for pain. She knows... She did one
from a doctor a year ago and still swears she thinks about how great it
felt, even now..... because of that and seeing so many of our friends in
Essex go down the tubes over it, she won't even do pain killers for
injury... me either...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:19 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an
end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.



Bill, that's about the dumbest post I've seen here in a long time.

Maybe. But what we have is not working. Make drug use legal. But no
society money to take care of addicts. Your family takes care of you or
you die.



Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.



It hasn't worked anywhere. Look at Sweden, they are rolling back the
open laws cause it just made things worse.... I am for legalization of
pot, and killing of heroin dealers....period.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:42:42 AM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:

There's no clinical reason for it to be considered a "stepping stone"

but it does bring kids into contact with the drug culture in general,

and that is not a good thing. Best thing for parents is to let their

views be firmly known, and to keep track of their friends. "Friends"

are where a lot of the mischief starts. Make sure the kids are kept

occupied with wholesome activities and reward them for success in

those endeavors. A bit of luck helps also.



That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


===

That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.
Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their
kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:20:07 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug.

===

My oldest son once came home and said something like that. I told
him it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard him say. The problem
with heroin is its extraordinarily addictive quality that never seems
to let go once a user is hooked.

True on the addiction. But a heroin addict can lead a productive life.
Now we just have subsidized heroin addiction, free methadone.

===

Have you ever seen methadone users waiting outside a clinic for it to
open? I have. They look like walking dead, all zoned out with no
life to their eyes or expression. Not a good way to go through life.
It's basically trading one addiction for another and apparently heroin
is a much better high.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 5:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:17:11 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and
then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom
might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

Then addiction is finished.

Humanitarianism expressed by those on the far right always impresses me.

It's called reality. Something you folks in "la la land" are not
familiar with.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.



I agree with all that.

There was a time however when that type of education came primarily from
your parents, supplemented by "health" and/or science classes in schools
that covered all the clinical details but none of the emotional issues.
Combined, they were effective.

I guess we have to question what kind of teenage activities are
considered "normal" today. If having sex with every girlfriend that
comes along is now "normal" and, in the event of an inadvertent
pregnancy, there's always the abortion clinc down the street, then I
guess I really am a luddite.

My old man spent time with me as a young, hormone filled teenager who
was starting to date frequently. He talked about the need for taking
precautions ... basically rubbers at that time. Few teenage girls were
"on the pill" back then. He talked about responsibility which extended
to that which I had for the girls involved and how important the
ramifications of our actions could be.
Most of all however, he emphasized having respect for women in general
and particularly the young women I was seeing. Without having to be
told it was clearly understood that if I treated girls badly or
irresponsibly, I'd also be answering to him. It wasn't a threat in
anyway. It was perfectly normal coming from him.

He never preached abstinence. He was too smart to do that. He just
tried to instill a more mature picture of how I should be considering
the actions and responsibilities of whatever activities I engaged in
with the fairer sex. I still have a lot of respect for his approach.

He ended it with, "When the right one comes along, you'll know it."

He was correct.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:58:03 PM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim

That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.

Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their

kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)


agreed,Wayne. But it can go for lesser than that with two instances. A local gal threw a kegger for her son on his 16th birthday.(obviously bad parenting) And I was really mad at the chaperones at a local prom because a 17 year old showed up wobbling drunk. They kicked the kid out but watched him get in his car and drive away w/o calling the law. (obviously poor judgement for a school!)

Not good at all!

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:54:46 PM UTC-6, KC wrote:

It hasn't worked anywhere. Look at Sweden, they are rolling back the

open laws cause it just made things worse.... I am for legalization of

pot, and killing of heroin dealers....period.

From the movie "Red Heat"-



Ivan Danko:
I have car under control.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah, I'm sure they taught you all about cars and the price of insurance at your famous Russian school in Kiev!

Ivan Danko:
In socialist countries, insurance not necessary. State pays for everything.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah? Well, tell me something, Captain. If you've got such a ****ing paradise over there, how come you're up the same creek as we are with heroin and cocaine?

Ivan Danko:
Chinese find way. Right after revolution, they round up all drug dealers, all drug addicts, take them to public square, and shoot them in back of head.

Art Ridzik:
Ah, it'd never work here. ****ing politicians wouldn't go for it.

Ivan Danko:
Shoot them first.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.


I think you are just way too far detached from the situation to
understand... Not trying to be an ass, but just by your tone and comments, I can see that.

See my other post. I worked in a drug invested area, downtown Oakland. I
have seen the results. Maybe I am just tired of making excuses for bad
choices. Let the addict live or die with his choice. I have come to the
conclusion, it is not society's place to financially support them. We can
not afford it anymore! Maybe some tough love on drugs and welfare, and we
would have less of either.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....

It is a bad drug, but an addict can still function. You already admit they
can not kick the habit, so let them get a drug that will let them function,
until they die. Sounds cruel, but why is it the rest of society's job to
take care of them? We have spent trillions on the war on drugs. We lost
the war. Let the wounded die.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:11:47 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

agreed,Wayne. But it can go for lesser than that with two instances. A local gal threw a kegger for her son on his 16th birthday.(obviously bad parenting)
And I was really mad at the chaperones at a local prom because a 17 year old showed up wobbling drunk. They kicked the kid out but watched him get in
his car and drive away w/o calling the law. (obviously poor judgement for a school!)

Not good at all!

===

Aye.

Hope the kid got home OK, frequently they don't. You have to wonder
where his parents were. And what were the chaperones thinking, if at
all?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!


That, + 6 grand in lawyer bills and another 6 in their bills and the 15
grand we had set aside is gone. Jess was supposed to go to work with one
of the top 15 mens riders in the world this winter and the first WMA pro
womens race is March 9... She was going to apply for her licence and we
were going to make 6 of the 8 WMA Pro races this year and qualify for
rookie of the year... all that is running through the veins of a family
of junkies....

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.


I think you are just way too far detached from the situation to
understand... Not trying to be an ass, but just by your tone and comments, I can see that.

See my other post. I worked in a drug invested area, downtown Oakland. I
have seen the results. Maybe I am just tired of making excuses for bad
choices. Let the addict live or die with his choice. I have come to the
conclusion, it is not society's place to financially support them. We can
not afford it anymore! Maybe some tough love on drugs and welfare, and we
would have less of either.


Ok, maybe I misunderstood your post... I don't want to legalize dope
though, I am all in for the Chinese method of dealing with heroin
dealers though...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 11:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Doesn't help to have a president that publicly acknowledges that pot
isn't that dangerous. He's right, but what kind of influence does that
have on a 12 to 14 year old? They can decide for themselves when they
become adults.

Lying to them isn't effective. They should be given the most accurate
information available. Most will make reasonable decisions.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.


I think you are just way too far detached from the situation to
understand... Not trying to be an ass, but just by your tone and
comments, I can see that.

See my other post. I worked in a drug invested area, downtown Oakland. I
have seen the results. Maybe I am just tired of making excuses for bad
choices. Let the addict live or die with his choice. I have come to the
conclusion, it is not society's place to financially support them. We can
not afford it anymore! Maybe some tough love on drugs and welfare, and we
would have less of either.


Ok, maybe I misunderstood your post... I don't want to legalize dope
though, I am all in for the Chinese method of dealing with heroin dealers though...

The only way we are going to win the war on drugs is take over
distribution. No incentive to hook more. I think it is just a practical
way of looking at the drug problems.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!


That, + 6 grand in lawyer bills and another 6 in their bills and the 15
grand we had set aside is gone. Jess was supposed to go to work with one
of the top 15 mens riders in the world this winter and the first WMA pro
womens race is March 9... She was going to apply for her licence and we
were going to make 6 of the 8 WMA Pro races this year and qualify for
rookie of the year... all that is running through the veins of a family of junkies....

Would it not be better for all of us, they died early from their
addispction?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:08 AM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!


That, + 6 grand in lawyer bills and another 6 in their bills and the 15
grand we had set aside is gone. Jess was supposed to go to work with one
of the top 15 mens riders in the world this winter and the first WMA pro
womens race is March 9... She was going to apply for her licence and we
were going to make 6 of the 8 WMA Pro races this year and qualify for
rookie of the year... all that is running through the veins of a family of junkies....

Would it not be better for all of us, they died early from their
addispction?


Would make me happier than a clam...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....

It is a bad drug, but an addict can still function. You already admit they
can not kick the habit, so let them get a drug that will let them function,
until they die. Sounds cruel, but why is it the rest of society's job to
take care of them? We have spent trillions on the war on drugs. We lost
the war. Let the wounded die.


I'll go suggest that to my sister-in-law. I am sure it will bring her
some solace and peace of mind.

Do you have any kids?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:56 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

And they eventually turn to heroin as it's *much* cheaper.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:33 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:32:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.

Drugs have been illegal for close to a century and usage has not
changed much. Certainly it goes up and down but not in relation to the
effects of the law.



and ?

Are you suggesting that therefore they should be made legal?

What the hell. May as well decriminalize rape, murder, assault and
virtually every other illegal act as well. They've been around for eons
despite laws against them.

I think there's enough evidence that suggests that pot is relatively
harmless when responsibly used for medical or recreational purposes.
Deaths due to pot overdose are .... zero. You don't find potheads
stealing, robbing or assaulting to get their weed, driven by a physical
addiction.

Not so with the addictive drugs like heroin.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:50:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

How many people did you run into in the army who were addicted to
alcohol? I certainly saw plenty in the Navy and CG



I knew many heavy drinkers in the Navy. I was one of them. I know many
heavy drinkers now. I am not one of them, not because I don't like it,
but because as you age it doesn't like you as much. Most drinkers,
including myself never become alcoholics.

Alcoholism, like drug addiction, radically changes how a person thinks
and acts. His/her personality changes. Scientists have mapped areas of
the brain that responsible for cognizant thinking and routine awareness.
The inter-cell transmitters of electrical signals have been destroyed,
often permanently. A recovering alcoholic has to "re-wire" his/her
thought process to avoid relapses. Same with some drug addicts.

A heavy drinker isn't "the" definition of an alcoholic or one addicted
to alcohol. There is much more to it.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 21:48:21 -0600, Califbill wrote:

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....

It is a bad drug, but an addict can still function. You already admit they
can not kick the habit, so let them get a drug that will let them function,
until they die. Sounds cruel, but why is it the rest of society's job to
take care of them? We have spent trillions on the war on drugs. We lost
the war. Let the wounded die.

You need to amend that. "An addict who can still function can still function." At some point they
won't be able to function. Then they become society's burden, whether society likes it or not.

Personally I think we're way too easy on the sellers, distributors, and border crossings. But then
you've got the liberals who think any serious punishment is too much punishment.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:27:16 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:54:46 PM UTC-6, KC wrote:

It hasn't worked anywhere. Look at Sweden, they are rolling back the

open laws cause it just made things worse.... I am for legalization of

pot, and killing of heroin dealers....period.

From the movie "Red Heat"-



Ivan Danko:
I have car under control.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah, I'm sure they taught you all about cars and the price of insurance at your famous Russian school in Kiev!

Ivan Danko:
In socialist countries, insurance not necessary. State pays for everything.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah? Well, tell me something, Captain. If you've got such a ****ing paradise over there, how come you're up the same creek as we are with heroin and cocaine?

Ivan Danko:
Chinese find way. Right after revolution, they round up all drug dealers, all drug addicts, take them to public square, and shoot them in back of head.

Art Ridzik:
Ah, it'd never work here. ****ing politicians wouldn't go for it.

Ivan Danko:
Shoot them first.


HOOOAAAHH !!!

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:11:47 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:58:03 PM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim

That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.

Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their

kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)


agreed,Wayne. But it can go for lesser than that with two instances. A local gal threw a kegger for her son on his 16th birthday.(obviously bad parenting) And I was really mad at the chaperones at a local prom because a 17 year old showed up wobbling drunk. They kicked the kid out but watched him get in his car and drive away w/o calling the law. (obviously poor judgement for a school!)

Not good at all!

When our school puts on a dance, there is always a cop present along with all the 'volunteer'
teacher chaperones. When I went to high school, we had proms in the school, not off-campus at some
hotel ballroom. It wouldn't bother me a bit to see on-campus proms become the norm again.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 20:21:00 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.

We must be coming at it from different angles. I saw the abstinence being taught as the only
'foolproof' method of preventing pregnancies and STD's, which it is. There is a lot more emphasis on
STD's and substance abuse. By the junior and senior years the 'sex education' is pretty much over,
except for some more on STD's.

Yes, there could probably be lots of improvements. But for the most part those take classroom time.
We wouldn't want to take away any of the liberal arts classes. In any case, there *is* education
taking place, contrary to what some would believe.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 20:59:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/7/2014 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.



I agree with all that.

There was a time however when that type of education came primarily from
your parents, supplemented by "health" and/or science classes in schools
that covered all the clinical details but none of the emotional issues.
Combined, they were effective.

I guess we have to question what kind of teenage activities are
considered "normal" today. If having sex with every girlfriend that
comes along is now "normal" and, in the event of an inadvertent
pregnancy, there's always the abortion clinc down the street, then I
guess I really am a luddite.

My old man spent time with me as a young, hormone filled teenager who
was starting to date frequently. He talked about the need for taking
precautions ... basically rubbers at that time. Few teenage girls were
"on the pill" back then. He talked about responsibility which extended
to that which I had for the girls involved and how important the
ramifications of our actions could be.
Most of all however, he emphasized having respect for women in general
and particularly the young women I was seeing. Without having to be
told it was clearly understood that if I treated girls badly or
irresponsibly, I'd also be answering to him. It wasn't a threat in
anyway. It was perfectly normal coming from him.

He never preached abstinence. He was too smart to do that. He just
tried to instill a more mature picture of how I should be considering
the actions and responsibilities of whatever activities I engaged in
with the fairer sex. I still have a lot of respect for his approach.

He ended it with, "When the right one comes along, you'll know it."

He was correct.



A story. The boy and girl in question were 13 years old.

I intercepted a note being passed from a girl to her boyfriend. In the note, the girl complained to
the boy that he could at least say he loved her since she was giving him head. Both of these kids
were from what I would consider middle to upper middle class, white, nice-looking, high on the peer
social ladder, and you get the picture.

I gave the note to the principal, expecting her to discuss it with the parents, or give it to a
counselor for the same reason. No, the principal called a meeting with the parents...and me! During
the meeting the parents expressed no surprise, outrage, worry, or any other emotion you'd think
they'd express. At the end, they left angry...not with their daughter, but with me. Why? Because by
taking and reading the note, I was infringing on the privacy of their daughter! They couldn't, or
wouldn't, understand that I was worried about the 'safety' of their daughter. At one point the
mother tried to say that 'giving head' may have been academic help. The father hushed her, saying
they'd discuss it later.

That happened about 15 years ago.

Yes, what is 'normal' today is much different than what was 'normal' in our day.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 21:43:26 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/7/2014 11:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Doesn't help to have a president that publicly acknowledges that pot
isn't that dangerous. He's right, but what kind of influence does that
have on a 12 to 14 year old? They can decide for themselves when they
become adults.

Lying to them isn't effective. They should be given the most accurate
information available. Most will make reasonable decisions.

You're correct that lying to them is not effective. But the President, if he doesn't want to lie to
them, should perhaps keep his mouth shut rather than imply that pot is harmless and safe.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 01:35:33 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:50:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

How many people did you run into in the army who were addicted to
alcohol? I certainly saw plenty in the Navy and CG

Plenty. Both in and out. Family and others. Neighbor across the street. I don't drink alcohol for a
reason.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


That may be your personal experience... My daughter was give a tylenol
three which is probably 1/10th the opiate of an Oxycontin. She is a pro
athelete and a few days ago because of this discussion we were talking
about it... She is scared to death to take another one, almost a year
later she swears she still craves that feeling...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 07:36:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/8/2014 1:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:50:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

How many people did you run into in the army who were addicted to
alcohol? I certainly saw plenty in the Navy and CG



I knew many heavy drinkers in the Navy. I was one of them. I know many
heavy drinkers now. I am not one of them, not because I don't like it,
but because as you age it doesn't like you as much. Most drinkers,
including myself never become alcoholics.

Alcoholism, like drug addiction, radically changes how a person thinks
and acts. His/her personality changes. Scientists have mapped areas of
the brain that responsible for cognizant thinking and routine awareness.
The inter-cell transmitters of electrical signals have been destroyed,
often permanently. A recovering alcoholic has to "re-wire" his/her
thought process to avoid relapses. Same with some drug addicts.

A heavy drinker isn't "the" definition of an alcoholic or one addicted
to alcohol. There is much more to it.


I have a simple definition. If alcohol is causing problems for the drinker, and the drinker persists
in drinking alcohol, then the drinker is exhibiting alcoholic behavior. The only question then is
how big the problems have to get before the drinker realizes he/she is an alcoholic.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 08:47:44 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/8/2014 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


That may be your personal experience... My daughter was give a tylenol
three which is probably 1/10th the opiate of an Oxycontin. She is a pro
athelete and a few days ago because of this discussion we were talking
about it... She is scared to death to take another one, almost a year
later she swears she still craves that feeling...

My guess would be that she was over prescribed for the pain. Probably should have taken the tyleno
without the codeine.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 08:02:34 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

We must be coming at it from different angles. I saw the abstinence being taught as the only
'foolproof' method of preventing pregnancies and STD's, which it is.

===

To me that's like saying that the only foolproof way of avoiding
automobile accidents is to not get in a car.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 9:10 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 08:47:44 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/8/2014 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


That may be your personal experience... My daughter was give a tylenol
three which is probably 1/10th the opiate of an Oxycontin. She is a pro
athelete and a few days ago because of this discussion we were talking
about it... She is scared to death to take another one, almost a year
later she swears she still craves that feeling...

My guess would be that she was over prescribed for the pain. Probably should have taken the tyleno
without the codeine.


Are you kidding me? Your guess would be wrong... I won't get into the
details...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 09:28:57 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/8/2014 9:10 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 08:47:44 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/8/2014 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


That may be your personal experience... My daughter was give a tylenol
three which is probably 1/10th the opiate of an Oxycontin. She is a pro
athelete and a few days ago because of this discussion we were talking
about it... She is scared to death to take another one, almost a year
later she swears she still craves that feeling...

My guess would be that she was over prescribed for the pain. Probably should have taken the tyleno
without the codeine.


Are you kidding me? Your guess would be wrong... I won't get into the
details...

No sweat. My guesses have been wrong before. I'm just basing my 'guess' on my experiences and what
I've heard doctors say.