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F.O.A.D. February 5th 14 02:42 PM

Good for CVS...
 
The chain will no longer sell tobacco products.


--
There’s no point crying over spilled 4-Methylcyclohexanemethanol.

F.O.A.D. February 5th 14 04:35 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/5/14, 11:29 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:00:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:




They should do a study on how many of this country's 'poor' smoke cigarettes compared to the
'unpoor', whoever that is.

There's probably an excuse somewhere. Lack of money, according to some, causes obesity because poor
people 'can't afford to eat decently'. I suppose one would say that lack of money causes people to
spend $10 a pack for cigarettes because they can't afford psychiatrists to help control their
anxiety.


A tad judgmental, eh?


--
There’s no point crying over spilled 4-Methylcyclohexanemethanol.

KC February 5th 14 06:24 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/5/2014 1:16 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:25:10 -0500, KC wrote:

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the
yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going
all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and
raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not
be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a
report in the fall...


I am waiting to see how that works for you. My ex's family all had a
tobacco quota (Anne Arundle County) and grew whatever they were
allowed to sell but it was very labor intensive according to them.,
The raccoons won't eat your tobacco but there are plenty of bugs and
worms that will. You have to manually deal with that because you don't
want to smoke poison.
There is also a drying process that impacts how good your smoke is.
I am not sure if any of those people are still alive but it would be
an interesting conversation if I could hook you up.
After a while my eyes glazed over but I am not a farmer.


Yeah, it looks like the hardest part might be the bugs and the rotting
(curing) of the finished product. Then you have to process the leaves
and grind them... There are lots of tricks out there but the cut is very
important to the roll and burn.

KC February 5th 14 06:25 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/5/2014 1:16 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:25:10 -0500, KC wrote:

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the
yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going
all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and
raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not
be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a
report in the fall...


I am waiting to see how that works for you. My ex's family all had a
tobacco quota (Anne Arundle County) and grew whatever they were
allowed to sell but it was very labor intensive according to them.,
The raccoons won't eat your tobacco but there are plenty of bugs and
worms that will. You have to manually deal with that because you don't
want to smoke poison.
There is also a drying process that impacts how good your smoke is.
I am not sure if any of those people are still alive but it would be
an interesting conversation if I could hook you up.
After a while my eyes glazed over but I am not a farmer.


You are right about the bugs though, I hadn't thought of that... Can't
poison them that's for sure..

Poco Loco February 6th 14 02:11 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!


Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.


KC February 6th 14 03:34 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/5/2014 8:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:24:45 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/5/2014 1:16 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:25:10 -0500, KC wrote:

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the
yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going
all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and
raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not
be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a
report in the fall...

I am waiting to see how that works for you. My ex's family all had a
tobacco quota (Anne Arundle County) and grew whatever they were
allowed to sell but it was very labor intensive according to them.,
The raccoons won't eat your tobacco but there are plenty of bugs and
worms that will. You have to manually deal with that because you don't
want to smoke poison.
There is also a drying process that impacts how good your smoke is.
I am not sure if any of those people are still alive but it would be
an interesting conversation if I could hook you up.
After a while my eyes glazed over but I am not a farmer.


Yeah, it looks like the hardest part might be the bugs and the rotting
(curing) of the finished product. Then you have to process the leaves
and grind them... There are lots of tricks out there but the cut is very
important to the roll and burn.


That is a big part of the trick. You need to air dry this without it
rotting or growing mold on it.
There are big barns (not red) all over southern Maryland that are only
there to dry tobacco,
The trick is you spear it and hang it upside down in a well ventilated
but very dry place.


Yeah, I am familiar with the process, my whole town was nothing but
tobacco when I was a kid worked it at age 14... Gotta dry it slow and
warm in the beginning, got to make it rot out the sugars and harsh
oils... Really rotting it to an extent, or letting it get close. That's
why those red barns have the slats on the side so they can control the
humidity during the cure. If you dry it too fast, it will taste
harsh.... etc...

Califbill February 6th 14 03:41 AM

Good for CVS...
 
Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!


Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.


Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Poco Loco February 6th 14 01:41 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.


Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


Mr. Luddite February 6th 14 06:19 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.


Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



F.O.A.D. February 6th 14 06:23 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/14, 1:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx


It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in
about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad
investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



There have been many news articles pointing out that American tobacco
corporations are concentrating their marketing activities on young
people in third world countries.

Mr. Luddite February 6th 14 07:04 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/2014 1:23 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/6/14, 1:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx



It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started
chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like
the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in
about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5%
depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad
investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



There have been many news articles pointing out that American tobacco
corporations are concentrating their marketing activities on young
people in third world countries.



Maybe now. When I visited the PRC in 1986 our host recommended
bringing as many cartons of Marlboros as we could. We passed them out
to the Chinese attendees at the various meetings we attended. It was
like handing out gold bars with all the bowing, smiling and hand-shaking.



Poco Loco February 6th 14 08:31 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:23:33 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 1:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx


It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in
about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad
investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



There have been many news articles pointing out that American tobacco
corporations are concentrating their marketing activities on young
people in third world countries.


It's hard competing with the AK-47 dealers.


Califbill February 6th 14 08:58 PM

Good for CVS...
 
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


And Korea.

Poco Loco February 6th 14 09:35 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:58:26 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


And Korea.


Big time in Korea. Forgot about them.


F.O.A.D. February 6th 14 09:36 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:



Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of ThÃ*ch Quảng Äức, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Diệm government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Diệm was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.



Poco Loco February 6th 14 10:56 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:



Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted. I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it , actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.


[email protected] February 6th 14 11:34 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, KC wrote:

My wife saves about half rolling her own but they doubled the tax on

that in the last 5 years so instead of $2.50 a pack, it's now almost 5.

She smokes a lot less now that she uses the ecig, but still it's a lot.

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the

yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going

all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and

raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not

be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a

report in the fall...


I don't know about Americas Laws on it... but you sure as hell CANT grow it up here without a License.

F.O.A.D. February 6th 14 11:41 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/14, 5:56 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted. I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it , actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.



In the 1950s and early 1960s, you and I came of age in entirely
different worlds. If memory serves, you grew up in a conservative part
of the midwest. I grew up in a small New England city in a state
dominated by moderate to liberal (for their time) educators and
politicians, counterbalanced by a large number of defense contractors.
There was a lot of discussion on every issue you can imagine. New Haven
was the locus of Griswold v. Connecticut.

I'm not saying where I grew up was better. It was just a lot different
than where you grew up. There were large, organized anti-war
demonstrations early in that decade. I remember long-winded discussions
at the student union in Kansas after that monk set himself on fire. As I
have posted here before, when a Buddhist monk sets himself on fire to
protest his government, you can bet there are serious problems with that
government.

We didn't do what we were told. We questioned everything.

I didn't "evade" the draft. I stayed in touch with my draft board. The
draft board never told me to report for a pre-induction physical. I
won't say I was upset by its lack of action.

Communist or not, I don't blame Ho Chi Minh for that horrific war.
Promises were made in the 1940s regarding the future of Vietnam, and
after WWII, the French returned and reneged and reestablished
colonialism, and then we stepped in and perpetuated white man's rule.

Never gave a second's thought to going for C.O. status. It just never
came up.



F.O.A.D. February 6th 14 11:44 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/14, 6:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Weren't you fellows aware of ThÃ*ch Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government?


If you looked at that in a vacuum and believed he was right then you
have to think Atta was a freedom fighter. (but maybe you do)


Look at what in a vacuum, the abuse of Buddhists by the then government
of Vietnam?

Mr. Luddite February 7th 14 12:00 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/2014 6:41 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/6/14, 5:56 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the
cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't
own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I
wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted.
I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious
objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of
thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it ,
actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.



In the 1950s and early 1960s, you and I came of age in entirely
different worlds. If memory serves, you grew up in a conservative part
of the midwest. I grew up in a small New England city in a state
dominated by moderate to liberal (for their time) educators and
politicians, counterbalanced by a large number of defense contractors.
There was a lot of discussion on every issue you can imagine. New Haven
was the locus of Griswold v. Connecticut.

I'm not saying where I grew up was better. It was just a lot different
than where you grew up. There were large, organized anti-war
demonstrations early in that decade. I remember long-winded discussions
at the student union in Kansas after that monk set himself on fire. As I
have posted here before, when a Buddhist monk sets himself on fire to
protest his government, you can bet there are serious problems with that
government.

We didn't do what we were told. We questioned everything.

I didn't "evade" the draft. I stayed in touch with my draft board. The
draft board never told me to report for a pre-induction physical. I
won't say I was upset by its lack of action.

Communist or not, I don't blame Ho Chi Minh for that horrific war.
Promises were made in the 1940s regarding the future of Vietnam, and
after WWII, the French returned and reneged and reestablished
colonialism, and then we stepped in and perpetuated white man's rule.

Never gave a second's thought to going for C.O. status. It just never
came up.



A reasoned and respectful response and a far cry from some previous
comments about people who *did* get drafted or enlisted and, due to no
choice or fault of their own, participated in the war in Vietnam or in
the military in general.

Thank you.

Tim February 7th 14 12:17 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:27:40 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
I wonder if $10.00 a pack would kill off

cigarette sales entirely.



i doubt it. addicts will still find their fix. And if made $20.00 a pack it'd make no difference.

Heroine is totally illegal and look at what happened to Hoffman.

Califbill February 7th 14 01:20 AM

Good for CVS...
 
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:



Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.


I turned down an NCR trip to VN. They wanted to only boost pay 50% and
little expense money. Friend took the job, and they had to raise expense
money as was not enough to rent a place. Do not remember his name, only
met him a couple times, but one of the guys in my reserve unit was an IBM
in country rep. E3 here, but a major for privileges in VN.

KC February 7th 14 01:49 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/2014 6:34 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, KC wrote:

My wife saves about half rolling her own but they doubled the tax on

that in the last 5 years so instead of $2.50 a pack, it's now almost 5.

She smokes a lot less now that she uses the ecig, but still it's a lot.

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the

yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going

all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and

raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not

be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a

report in the fall...


I don't know about Americas Laws on it... but you sure as hell CANT grow it up here without a License.


As I gather so far, you can grow a bit for personal use, and even apply
for a permit to grow some to sell yourself.. It would of course have to
be taxed etc I would imagine. We just want to grow some for ourselves...

KC February 7th 14 01:51 AM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/6/2014 7:17 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:27:40 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
I wonder if $10.00 a pack would kill off

cigarette sales entirely.



i doubt it. addicts will still find their fix. And if made $20.00 a pack it'd make no difference.

Heroine is totally illegal and look at what happened to Hoffman.


Broke my heart the other day to run into another old friend who is on
Oxycontin, and hooked good by the looks of things. He is a cop...

Califbill February 7th 14 07:25 AM

Good for CVS...
 
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:49:41 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/6/2014 6:34 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, KC wrote:

My wife saves about half rolling her own but they doubled the tax on

that in the last 5 years so instead of $2.50 a pack, it's now almost 5.

She smokes a lot less now that she uses the ecig, but still it's a lot.

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the

yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going

all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and

raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not

be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a

report in the fall...

I don't know about Americas Laws on it... but you sure as hell CANT
grow it up here without a License.


As I gather so far, you can grow a bit for personal use, and even apply
for a permit to grow some to sell yourself.. It would of course have to
be taxed etc I would imagine. We just want to grow some for ourselves...


I have been away from that for 3 decades but I think they dropped all
of that quota stuff that used to be a virtual license for selling it.
I think you could always grow all you wanted but you were locked out
of the auction for anything that wasn't in your quota.
That was some family's most valuable asset, passed down from
generation to generation and you saw little patches of tobacco behind
every old farm house all over southern Md..

Harry is around there now, maybe he knows what happened to the old
quota system.


I understand some florist in NYC was one of the biggest tobacco money
makers. His family had a huge amount of allotments and he inherited and
rented them out.

Poco Loco February 7th 14 01:13 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 02:05:26 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 20:49:41 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/6/2014 6:34 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, KC wrote:

My wife saves about half rolling her own but they doubled the tax on

that in the last 5 years so instead of $2.50 a pack, it's now almost 5.

She smokes a lot less now that she uses the ecig, but still it's a lot.

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the

yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going

all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and

raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not

be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a

report in the fall...

I don't know about Americas Laws on it... but you sure as hell CANT grow it up here without a License.


As I gather so far, you can grow a bit for personal use, and even apply
for a permit to grow some to sell yourself.. It would of course have to
be taxed etc I would imagine. We just want to grow some for ourselves...


I have been away from that for 3 decades but I think they dropped all
of that quota stuff that used to be a virtual license for selling it.
I think you could always grow all you wanted but you were locked out
of the auction for anything that wasn't in your quota.
That was some family's most valuable asset, passed down from
generation to generation and you saw little patches of tobacco behind
every old farm house all over southern Md..

Harry is around there now, maybe he knows what happened to the old
quota system.


Wonder if the red barn was a tobacco barn?


KC February 7th 14 06:36 PM

Good for CVS...
 
On 2/7/2014 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 08:13:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 02:05:26 -0500,
wrote:


I have been away from that for 3 decades but I think they dropped all
of that quota stuff that used to be a virtual license for selling it.
I think you could always grow all you wanted but you were locked out
of the auction for anything that wasn't in your quota.
That was some family's most valuable asset, passed down from
generation to generation and you saw little patches of tobacco behind
every old farm house all over southern Md..

Harry is around there now, maybe he knows what happened to the old
quota system.


Wonder if the red barn was a tobacco barn?


Every one I ever saw was unpainted but I think they tore all of them
down to sell the lumber. In the 70s and 80s yuppies (and their foo foo
interior designers) were paying enough for authentic heartwood "barn
boards" that you could afford to tear it down and build a new barn.
Unfortunately the wood these days is not as good and you might have to
paint it.


Yup, it was a huge business here for a while... I grew up playing in
those barns... Living life on the beams, 5 stories up where principals
and truant officers couldn't even see you with a flashlight:)


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