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On 1/21/2014 9:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: On 1/21/2014 7:51 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote: Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784. Have fun with those numbers. snip Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012. Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years. Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes. I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED. I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per. Garbage in garbage out. To many variables. Heat and air conditioning used, hot water heater use. More or less overnight company, Etc. No saying you didn't use less for lighting, I just don't think you can quantify it using overall electric usage. How else would you do it? I have a separate meter on my water heater and on another on a room where I keep my business freezers. I just think there are to many variables to rely on the monthly or yearly changes to think those are just a change in light costs. When I hurt my back, my electric use went up, hot baths and a heating pad added to the use. Mikek |
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On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 11:44:03 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/21/14, 11:34 AM, wrote: My wife was prairie building when she brought her community out of the ground and they ran the construction trailer off of a 36KVA diesel genset. They got fuel delivered a couple times a week. The gas assisted heat pump, the water heater, the fireplace and the stovetop were why we installed the propane tank. I'm not concerned about running dry because the supplier is on top of things. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/20/22372040-propane-shortage-adds-to-winter-woes?lite |
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On 1/21/2014 9:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: On 1/21/2014 7:51 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote: Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784. Have fun with those numbers. snip Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012. Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years. Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes. I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED. I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per. Garbage in garbage out. To many variables. Heat and air conditioning used, hot water heater use. More or less overnight company, Etc. No saying you didn't use less for lighting, I just don't think you can quantify it using overall electric usage. How else would you do it? According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of residential electrical energy use is for lighting. The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation. So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25. Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound totally out of the ballpark. That would make an 11.6% reduction in the amount of residential electricity used. I assumed the algore lights use 10% of the old style. That may be to low. That's an extra $550 a year in your pocket. Mikek |
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On 1/21/14, 12:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:48:22 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 1/21/14, 11:27 AM, wrote: It is easy to figure out. What did you pay? How many KWH did you use? I posted my last 12 months straight from the FPL web site. I can also get that broken down by the hour since they put in the smart meter. I'm not that anal. I know or can find out what the current rate per kwh is. It varies seasonally between 8 and 10.75 cents. If I want a lower bill, we can cut usage. OK so you don't know and don't care. I don't really care either but I did want accurate numbers if I was going to cite them. As I stated, the current rates for the various util companies are posted on a state site. Our local util also posts the current rate on its site. It's not that I don't care. It's that whatever the rate is, there's nothing I can do about it. I can lower our usage, but I cannot change the $$$ rate. |
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On 1/21/2014 11:45 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/21/14, 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. Rather pay to run the genny than sit in a too cold or too hot house. Well, you could go out and commune with nature instead of pressing your nose against a cold or hot window. |
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On 1/21/2014 11:48 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: On 1/21/2014 7:51 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote: Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784. Have fun with those numbers. snip Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012. Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years. Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes. I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED. I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per. Garbage in garbage out. To many variables. Heat and air conditioning used, hot water heater use. More or less overnight company, Etc. No saying you didn't use less for lighting, I just don't think you can quantify it using overall electric usage. How else would you do it? I have a separate meter on my water heater and on another on a room where I keep my business freezers. I just think there are to many variables to rely on the monthly or yearly changes to think those are just a change in light costs. When I hurt my back, my electric use went up, hot baths and a heating pad added to the use. Mikek Too much of a coincidence, eh? |
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On 1/21/2014 11:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Hmmm... just had a thought. I wonder if they make a generator that runs off of furnace fuel oil. Probably do. That would be more practical as we have two 330 gal oil tanks and one 275 gal. We keep them topped off. Why wouldn't a diesel genny work? |
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: How else would you do it? According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of residential electrical energy use is for lighting. The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation. So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25. Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound totally out of the ballpark. My electric bills for the past year: Payment Date Payment Amount 01/17/2014 $142.69 12/16/2013 $119.33 11/18/2013 $112.94 10/16/2013 $123.35 09/16/2013 $146.15 08/30/2013 $139.61 08/02/2013 $174.59 06/28/2013 $133.67 06/05/2013 $89.89 04/29/2013 $99.16 04/29/2013 $107.83 04/01/2013 $100.91 Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post! |
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On 1/21/2014 11:44 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:51:19 -0500, Hank wrote: On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote: Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784. Have fun with those numbers. 12/31/2013 34 2209 $236.55 Electric Bill 11/27/2013 28 1667 $175.05 Electric Bill 10/30/2013 30 2278 $244.37 Electric Bill 09/30/2013 31 2567 $273.18 Electric Bill 08/30/2013 30 2427 $258.80 Electric Bill 07/31/2013 33 2407 $256.56 Electric Bill 06/28/2013 28 2259 $239.92 Electric Bill 05/31/2013 31 2032 $214.40 Electric Bill 04/30/2013 32 2010 $211.92 Electric Bill 03/29/2013 29 1895 $198.61 Electric Bill 02/28/2013 28 1658 $169.99 Electric Bill 01/31/2013 31 2097 $218.64 Electric Bill 12/31/2012 31 2464 $262.28 Electric Bill 11/30/2012 30 2021 $212.44 Electric Bill 10/31/2012 33 2569 $274.07 Electric Bill 09/28/2012 28 2129 $224.52 Electric Bill 08/31/2012 31 2439 $259.38 Electric Bill 07/31/2012 32 2547 $271.54 Electric Bill 06/29/2012 29 2084 $220.23 Electric Bill 05/31/2012 31 2128 $225.20 Electric Bill 04/30/2012 31 2040 $214.29 Electric Bill 03/30/2012 30 1786 $185.77 Electric Bill 02/29/2012 29 1795 $186.76 Electric Bill 01/31/2012 32 2101 $221.15 Electric Bill Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012. Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years. Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes. I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED. I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per. What else did you do to cut usage? Nothing, why? |
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 |
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On 1/21/2014 1:34 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: How else would you do it? According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of residential electrical energy use is for lighting. The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation. So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25. Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound totally out of the ballpark. My electric bills for the past year: Payment Date Payment Amount Plus fuel oil Plus natural gas TOTAL 01/17/2014 $142.69 12/16/2013 $119.33 11/18/2013 $112.94 10/16/2013 $123.35 09/16/2013 $146.15 08/30/2013 $139.61 08/02/2013 $174.59 06/28/2013 $133.67 06/05/2013 $89.89 04/29/2013 $99.16 04/29/2013 $107.83 04/01/2013 $100.91 Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post! Don't get too giddy. Fill in the rest. ;-) |
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On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? |
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On 1/21/2014 1:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:00 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:58:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Isn't furnace oil fuel a variation of diesel? Same stuff, without the taxes Not so. Fundamentally they are the same but diesel fuel is refined to a higher level, contains seasonal additives, is "cleaner" and has a much higher cetane rating. Fuel oil for your furnace has a much lower volatility rating and is not designed or blended for use in a diesel engine. I am not saying it won't burn, but it's not doing the engine any favors and won't produce much power assuming it runs. Try burning it in a diesel engine in cold climates and your not going anywhere. Cetane boosters are readily available. I heard they mixed a little gasoline into the diesel oil to create "winter blend". Maybe it's just an old wives tale. |
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On 1/21/2014 1:34 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: How else would you do it? According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of residential electrical energy use is for lighting. The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation. So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25. Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound totally out of the ballpark. My electric bills for the past year: Payment Date Payment Amount 01/17/2014 $142.69 12/16/2013 $119.33 11/18/2013 $112.94 10/16/2013 $123.35 09/16/2013 $146.15 08/30/2013 $139.61 08/02/2013 $174.59 06/28/2013 $133.67 06/05/2013 $89.89 04/29/2013 $99.16 04/29/2013 $107.83 04/01/2013 $100.91 Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post! Ha! We pay that just for the horse barn that's on it's own meter. |
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On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have. |
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On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have. Ahhh. I think I see his motive. |
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On 1/21/2014 2:12 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have. Ahhh. I think I see his motive. Yeah, if you can get over the sticker shock, it's not a bad setup. If you only need up to 15 amps, just run one generator. If you need more, fire up the other one. |
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:53:21 -0500, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? You don't have to buy two. The first one, by itself, is great for light loads, but with the second I'd have a 30amp capability, which would totally power the 5th wheel. I'd be very happy to get the first this Christmas, and the second for my birthday. Spread that around. Since my birthday is income tax day, many folks will have lots of money to get rid of. |
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:12:08 -0500, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come? He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have. Ahhh. I think I see his motive. Yup. Sly, don't you think. |
Bad outcome
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it. By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology generator. A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH. That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in Florida following Wilma. The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and just used the little Honda. The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000). If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle. These two go on my Christmas list. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844 That Honda is incredible... so quiet... |
Bad outcome
On 1/20/2014 10:18 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:47 PM, wrote: Here are my bill for last year. Jan $251 1985 Feb $224 1756 Mar $220 1725 April $198 1536 May $201 1561 June $377 3057 July $369 2985 Aug $401 3254 Sept $374 3025 Oct $332 2669 Nov $222 1733 June, July, Aug and Sept, are a little surprise to me. We have a business that uses 12 chest freezers at our home, those months are hot and the freezers are in an outdoor covered building. Our electric bill usually runs pretty high those months. I've had $500+ electric bills. Must have been a cooler summer. I get letters from the power company telling me I'm in the 99th percentile of usage and here are the ways to save on electricity. Then in Nov, I get the usage letter and they tell me how I have dropped down to the 70th percentile :-) Mike Speaking of my letter, I just got the mail and it has "THE LETTER", telling me, in the last 3 months "You used 96% more electricity than similar homes" This month I rank 92 out of 100 similar homes. #1 is the most efficient. They say "Your rank is improving. Great Job!" I was at 97 in the previous ranking. Next thing you know they' will be here to see what I'm growing. :-) When I do my taxes I'll pull the records together and subtract out my business use. See where I really rank. Mikek |
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amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:28 PM, wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:50:35 -0600, amdx wrote: On 1/20/2014 2:32 PM, wrote: the EPA calc is $7.23 a year to run it. That is less than 60 cents a month. Do you know what the EPA uses as the cost for aKwh? How many hours per day do they use? Mikek I don't know and I didn't have much luck looking. I see a lot of calculators but nothing about how they get the number they print on the box. Obviously if you are getting that cut rate power Harry gets the number will be different than you get with the gold plated 45 cent California power. Interesting comparison of California to Texas. http://www.youtube.com/embed/4CDFxeB7Y-s Mikek We have tiered power usage here. More you use, the higher per KWH. Lots of that is the fault of the state legislature, when they deregulated power, they deregulated the wholesale and kept regulation on retail. Made PG&E sell a lot of their generating capacity. Calpine bought a bunch of it. Then raised the wholesale rate to make a killing and pay off the loans to buy the capacity. Another law passed at the last minute without reading. PG&E went in to bankruptcy because they were required by the state PUC to sell power below cost. The bankruptcy court slapped the PUC and told them they can not require a company to sell product at less than cost! My power bill with 2 of us and a pool, runs about $200 a month. But we rarely use the AC. Last month with kids and grand kids here, and extreme cold, the bill went to $420. Would have to dig out the bill to see the KWH. But probably kicked us in to the higher KWH costs. |
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wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:03:48 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that! :) Me too, since I bought a generator, I have not had anything worth going out and flipping the transfer switch. (not automatic) I am glad I saved that $5000 ;-) My Yamaha generator has not been out of the box in 2 years. |
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Bad outcome
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:48:56 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:15:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote: How else would you do it? According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of residential electrical energy use is for lighting. The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation. So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25. Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound totally out of the ballpark. My electric bills for the past year: Payment Date Payment Amount 01/17/2014 $142.69 12/16/2013 $119.33 11/18/2013 $112.94 10/16/2013 $123.35 09/16/2013 $146.15 08/30/2013 $139.61 08/02/2013 $174.59 06/28/2013 $133.67 06/05/2013 $89.89 04/29/2013 $99.16 04/29/2013 $107.83 04/01/2013 $100.91 Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post! Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the electric bill for an apples to apples comparison. Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and specifically the cost for lighting. If all he posts is the dollar total of his bill, we need to know what is in that bill to have it mean anything. If he is heating everything with nat gas and the city is pumping his water, he should have a low electric bill. Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'. |
Bad outcome
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Bad outcome
On 1/21/2014 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:43:12 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:16:37 -0500, wrote: Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the electric bill for an apples to apples comparison. No, he said, "...US average monthly bill for residential electricity..." Do you imagine none of those had gas or water? Why would water consumption affect my electric bill? Yes, I have gas, but my gas bill wouldn't be affected by LED light bulbs. In fact, since they burn much cooler than incandescent, my gas bill would probably go up in the winter. But maybe I'd use less electricity in the summer for the air conditioner. I was just trying to point out that if you heat air and water with gas and the city pumps your water, the bill will be lower. I run 2 water pumps for every drop of water that comes into the house an electric water heater, dryer and whatever heat we use, If I threw away every lamp in my house and used coleman lanterns, it wouldn't save me $30 a month off my electric bill. That is 580 watts dawn to dusk. I wouldn't have that much light on of a stampede of bison ran around my house and tripped every motion sensor ... and they would all turn off 4 minutes later. I think this thread suffered topic drift. No point in continuing. |
Bad outcome
On 1/21/2014 10:19 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:04 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:43:12 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:16:37 -0500, wrote: Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the electric bill for an apples to apples comparison. No, he said, "...US average monthly bill for residential electricity..." Do you imagine none of those had gas or water? Why would water consumption affect my electric bill? Yes, I have gas, but my gas bill wouldn't be affected by LED light bulbs. In fact, since they burn much cooler than incandescent, my gas bill would probably go up in the winter. But maybe I'd use less electricity in the summer for the air conditioner. I was just trying to point out that if you heat air and water with gas and the city pumps your water, the bill will be lower. I run 2 water pumps for every drop of water that comes into the house an electric water heater, dryer and whatever heat we use, If I threw away every lamp in my house and used coleman lanterns, it wouldn't save me $30 a month off my electric bill. That is 580 watts dawn to dusk. I wouldn't have that much light on of a stampede of bison ran around my house and tripped every motion sensor ... and they would all turn off 4 minutes later. I think this thread suffered topic drift. No point in continuing. Yup |
Bad outcome
On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'. Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights" (or whatever number you want to use. I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped about 10 miles outside the beltway going South. They may have expanded that by now. I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into the discussion? Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights. I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for lighting. He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the savings LED lighting affords us. |
Bad outcome
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:50:50 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Hmmm... just had a thought. I wonder if they make a generator that runs off of furnace fuel oil. Probably do. That would be more practical as we have two 330 gal oil tanks and one 275 gal. We keep them topped off. === #2 furnace fuel is a very close relative of diesel, all it lacks is the cetane booster. You can buy cetane booster and keep it around for when it is needed. You should probably install some extra filtration, like a Racor, in the line going to the generator. |
Bad outcome
On 1/21/2014 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'. Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights" (or whatever number you want to use. I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped about 10 miles outside the beltway going South. They may have expanded that by now. I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into the discussion? Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights. I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for lighting. He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the savings LED lighting affords us. I don't need light when I am not there. I guess you missed that part. If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with unwanted light. http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts Hey, nobody's perfect. Cept you, maybe. |
Bad outcome
On 1/21/14, 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco wrote: Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'. Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights" (or whatever number you want to use. I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped about 10 miles outside the beltway going South. They may have expanded that by now. I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into the discussion? Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights. I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for lighting. He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the savings LED lighting affords us. I don't need light when I am not there. I guess you missed that part. If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with unwanted light. http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts We don't have street lights in our little subdivision. In fact, most of the residential neighborhoods in our county are sans street lights. So many people keep a couple of lights burning outside at night. Maybe it is a holdover from the days when mankind kept a fire burning at night for warmth, a little light and to ward off those dinosaurs that roamed the earth back then. :) I am going to keep an eye out for some LED bulbs with small bases that look decent and will fit in our outdoor lighting fixtures. I haven't seen any at Home Despot or Lowes yet, but they are available via mail order. Oh, we have a couple of LED nightlights in the house. Keeps me, especially, from tripping over the cats. |
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