|
Wouldn't it be funny...
....if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic
took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? (Reuters) - Pope Francis called for renewal of the Roman Catholic Church and attacked unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny", urging global leaders to fight poverty and growing inequality in the first major work he has authored alone as pontiff. The 84-page document, known as an apostolic exhortation, amounted to an official platform for his papacy, building on views he has aired in sermons and remarks since he became the first non-European pontiff in 1,300 years in March. In it, Francis went further than previous comments criticizing the global economic system, attacking the "idolatry of money" and beseeching politicians to guarantee all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare". He also called on rich people to share their wealth. "Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in the document issued on Tuesday. "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" The pope said renewal of the Church could not be put off and said the Vatican and its entrenched hierarchy "also need to hear the call to pastoral conversion". "I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security," he wrote. POVERTY A meditation on how to revitalize a Church suffering from encroaching secularization in Western countries, the exhortation echoed the missionary zeal more often heard from the evangelical Protestants who have won over many disaffected Catholics in the pope's native Latin America. In it, economic inequality features as one of the issues Francis is most concerned about, and the 76-year-old pontiff calls for an overhaul of the financial system and warns that unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence. "As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote. Denying this was simple populism, he called for action "beyond a simple welfare mentality" and added: "I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor." Since his election, Francis has set an example for austerity in the Church, living in a Vatican guest house rather than the ornate Apostolic Palace, travelling in a Ford Focus, and last month suspending a bishop who spent millions of euros on his luxurious residence. He chose to be called "Francis" after the medieval Italian saint of the same name famed for choosing a life of poverty. Stressing cooperation among religions, Francis quoted the late Pope John Paul II's idea that the papacy might be reshaped to promote closer ties with other Christian churches and noted lessons Rome could learn from the Orthodox such as "synodality" or decentralized leadership. He praised cooperation with Jews and Muslims and urged Islamic countries to guarantee their Christian minorities the same religious freedom as Muslims enjoy in the West. -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:59:50 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
...if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? How do you know they don't, Harry? Been looking at their tithe and offering receipts lately? Or are you speculating again? ?;^ ) |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/26/13, 6:10 PM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:59:50 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: ...if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? How do you know they don't, Harry? Been looking at their tithe and offering receipts lately? Or are you speculating again? ?;^ ) I can conclude by what they post here that at least two of them don't give a tinker's dam about the poor or whether they live or die. -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 5:12:17 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/26/13, 6:10 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:59:50 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: ...if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? How do you know they don't, Harry? Been looking at their tithe and offering receipts lately? Or are you speculating again? ?;^ ) I can conclude by what they post here that at least two of them don't give a tinker's dam about the poor or whether they live or die. Harry, I beleieve that's left to speculation. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:44:40 -0500, John H wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:59:50 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote: ...if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? Spoof. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:38:13 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? |
Wouldn't it be funny...
Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:59:50 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: ...if the several right-wingers in here who claim to be Catholic took their leader's words about poverty to heart and acted accordingly? How do you know they don't, Harry? Been looking at their tithe and offering receipts lately? Or are you speculating again? ?;^ ) To me, if I take money from my pocket and donate it to the poor via a church or charity, that is charitable giving. If someone else, including the government, takes it from me, via force or coercion then it is theft. And the person they gave my stolen money too, would say they are great people. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 13:29:46 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. That was a spoof. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/13, 5:30 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:38:13 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/27/13, 5:30 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:38:13 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. Depends. You're entitled to your own political views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. Actually my question had nothing to do with religion, Harry. It had to do with me being a 'woman hater' |
Wouldn't it be funny...
|
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/13, 9:26 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... You can believe in whatever religious beliefs you like, so long as you don't try to push those beliefs onto others. No one is telling you you you have to support the availability of abortion. -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/13, 9:21 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 5:30 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:38:13 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. Depends. You're entitled to your own political views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. I don't impose my political or religious views on anyone. -- Religion: together we can find the cure. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/2013 9:48 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/27/13, 9:21 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 5:30 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:38:13 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 11/27/13, 4:29 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-6, John H. wrote: They are usually very quick to respond to Harry, but in this case the response is deafening. Don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't personal down to individual tithing. This is about rethinking the entire approach of how a religious Catholic should perceive their view of making themselves their brother's keeper and not being so politically aloof. For example: "....beseeching politicians to GUARANTEE all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare"." [Emphasis mine.] "...today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality." "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?" This is clearly setting up a huge tug-of-war between the pope and the Christian Right/tea party clans. The term "Tea Party Catholic" has already been coined in the first volley back at the Vatican. The playing out of this right-wing political vs.religious cognitive dissonance in the public forum should prove to be very entertaining. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! I totally understand concerning the world wide Church,John. But when Harry said: "...if the several right-wingers in here ..." He was making it personal. Do you identify with those "right-wingers" who obviously disagree with their spiritual leader, the pope, in terms of helping the neediest? One obscure question deserves another- Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. Depends. You're entitled to your own political views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. I don't impose my political or religious views on anyone. No, but you certainly make enough noise on those issues. -- Americans deserve better. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On 11/27/2013 9:46 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/27/13, 9:26 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... You can believe in whatever religious beliefs you like, so long as you don't try to push those beliefs onto others. No one is telling you you you have to support the availability of abortion. Will you at least allow him to push back on your outrageous views? -- Americans deserve better. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/27/13, 9:26 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... You can believe in whatever religious beliefs you like, so long as you don't try to push those beliefs onto others. No one is telling you you you have to support the availability of abortion. Actually that is part of the Hobby Lobby case. Government pushing everybody to support abortion. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:46:19 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/27/13, 9:26 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... You can believe in whatever religious beliefs you like, so long as you don't try to push those beliefs onto others. Who says, Harry? You? No one is telling you you you have to support the availability of abortion. ....which has nothing to do with religion. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:48:12 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
I don't impose my political or religious views on anyone. Sure you do with just about every thread you start. |
Wouldn't it be funny...
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 21:46:19 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/27/13, 9:26 PM, Tim wrote: On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16:52 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: Because I'm not pro abortion does that mean hate women? Depends. You're entitled to your own religious views, but you are not entitled to impose them on others who believe differently. So if one is religious and is not pro-abortion, then they hate women, but if they're not pro abortion and are not religious then they're uh...er... well... You can believe in whatever religious beliefs you like, so long as you don't try to push those beliefs onto others. No one is telling you you you have to support the availability of abortion. Being anti-abortion is not a 'religious' belief, and more than being anti-murder is a religious belief. Both are homicides - which is not a religious term. John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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