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Auto industry recovery
This morning MSNBC's "Morning Joe" is celebrating the recovery of
the American auto industry, giving credit to the bailouts and concessions made by auto industry unions, etc. Where is the program being broadcast from? A *Ford* assembly plant. |
Auto industry recovery
On 8/29/13 6:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
This morning MSNBC's "Morning Joe" is celebrating the recovery of the American auto industry, giving credit to the bailouts and concessions made by auto industry unions, etc. Where is the program being broadcast from? A *Ford* assembly plant. Are you trying to say that the UAW didn't make huge concessions in dealing with the revitalization of Ford? |
Auto industry recovery
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/29/13 6:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: This morning MSNBC's "Morning Joe" is celebrating the recovery of the American auto industry, giving credit to the bailouts and concessions made by auto industry unions, etc. Where is the program being broadcast from? A *Ford* assembly plant. Are you trying to say that the UAW didn't make huge concessions in dealing with the revitalization of Ford? ----------------------------- No, but the only concessions discussed so far was the UAW's acceptance of a lower base starting wage for new employees .... not exactly a "huge" concession. Didn't affect existing employees. |
Auto industry recovery
"iBoaterer" wrote in message ... In article , says... This morning MSNBC's "Morning Joe" is celebrating the recovery of the American auto industry, giving credit to the bailouts and concessions made by auto industry unions, etc. Where is the program being broadcast from? A *Ford* assembly plant. So? Ford received almost $6 billion from the government and benefited from the cash for clunkers program. http://tinyurl.com/8yw3mcu ---------------------------- Ford received a six billion dollar loan from the DOE to scale up production of fuel efficient cars under a program available to all US auto makers, economic crisis or not. GM and Chrysler received emergency federal bailout money to the tune of over $70 billion. In the case of GM, it's unlikely a good chunk of it will ever be repaid. |
Auto industry recovery
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Auto industry recovery
"John H" wrote in message ... Well....their pickup diesel engines left something to be desired in terms of reputation. Otherwise I'd be driving a Ford diesel. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------- The old Powerstroke 7.2L was a reliable workhorse based on reports of people that had them. The bad rap Ford diesels received was the 6.0L replacement, and I can vouch for that. It was introduced under pressure from Ford marketing before it was fully tested and developed. The replacement for it ... the current 6.4L has a much better track record and reputation. I like diesel powered vehicles, particularly pickup trucks. I would have purchased another one back in 2008 except they had just introduced the mandated catalytic converter "burn off" systems. Sounded a little *too* crazy and new for me, so I went for a gas powered F250 instead. It serves my purposes and is now almost 6 model years old but has under 19,000 miles on it. On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. One thing I'd like to see: A diesel engine was never really designed to run over a wide range of RPMs. It was designed to run at a fixed, optimum RPM where it develops the most torque for the fuel it consumes. Diesel powered trains run at a constant RPM and the power generated is converted to electricity to run electric drive motors. I'd really be interested in how applying that concept in cars or trucks, using the newer, high efficiency diesels and electric motors available today. |
Auto industry recovery
On 8/29/2013 2:04 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"John H" wrote in message ... Well....their pickup diesel engines left something to be desired in terms of reputation. Otherwise I'd be driving a Ford diesel. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------- The old Powerstroke 7.2L was a reliable workhorse based on reports of people that had them. The bad rap Ford diesels received was the 6.0L replacement, and I can vouch for that. It was introduced under pressure from Ford marketing before it was fully tested and developed. The replacement for it ... the current 6.4L has a much better track record and reputation. I like diesel powered vehicles, particularly pickup trucks. I would have purchased another one back in 2008 except they had just introduced the mandated catalytic converter "burn off" systems. Sounded a little *too* crazy and new for me, so I went for a gas powered F250 instead. It serves my purposes and is now almost 6 model years old but has under 19,000 miles on it. On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. One thing I'd like to see: A diesel engine was never really designed to run over a wide range of RPMs. It was designed to run at a fixed, optimum RPM where it develops the most torque for the fuel it consumes. Diesel powered trains run at a constant RPM and the power generated is converted to electricity to run electric drive motors. I'd really be interested in how applying that concept in cars or trucks, using the newer, high efficiency diesels and electric motors available today. I have often said the same thing... Wonder how a diesel powered, electric car would do... |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . Well....their pickup diesel engines left something to be desired in terms of reputation. Otherwise I'd be driving a Ford diesel. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------- The old Powerstroke 7.2L was a reliable workhorse based on reports of people that had them. The bad rap Ford diesels received was the 6.0L replacement, and I can vouch for that. It was introduced under pressure from Ford marketing before it was fully tested and developed. The replacement for it ... the current 6.4L has a much better track record and reputation. I like diesel powered vehicles, particularly pickup trucks. I would have purchased another one back in 2008 except they had just introduced the mandated catalytic converter "burn off" systems. Sounded a little *too* crazy and new for me, so I went for a gas powered F250 instead. It serves my purposes and is now almost 6 model years old but has under 19,000 miles on it. On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. One thing I'd like to see: A diesel engine was never really designed to run over a wide range of RPMs. It was designed to run at a fixed, optimum RPM where it develops the most torque for the fuel it consumes. Diesel powered trains run at a constant RPM and the power generated is converted to electricity to run electric drive motors. I'd really be interested in how applying that concept in cars or trucks, using the newer, high efficiency diesels and electric motors available today. I definitely like mine. On the highway the speed control gets set at 63mph, pulling a trailer or not. With the trailer I'm getting right at 12mpg, without (on the highway) 22 mpg. Can't bitch about that. The new diesels, in the pickups, require the diesel exhaust fluid (urea) system, which I'm not fond of. I figure my 2009 will outlast me. I see that many of the auto makers are soon to make diesels. My wife's new car is a VW Jetta Sportwagon Diesel. She loves it, and the damn thing will get 48mpg on the highway. It's unreal. Makes the Prius look bad. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
And, the VW cost a hell of a lot less than a Prius. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:21:27 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/29/2013 2:04 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Well....their pickup diesel engines left something to be desired in terms of reputation. Otherwise I'd be driving a Ford diesel. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------- The old Powerstroke 7.2L was a reliable workhorse based on reports of people that had them. The bad rap Ford diesels received was the 6.0L replacement, and I can vouch for that. It was introduced under pressure from Ford marketing before it was fully tested and developed. The replacement for it ... the current 6.4L has a much better track record and reputation. I like diesel powered vehicles, particularly pickup trucks. I would have purchased another one back in 2008 except they had just introduced the mandated catalytic converter "burn off" systems. Sounded a little *too* crazy and new for me, so I went for a gas powered F250 instead. It serves my purposes and is now almost 6 model years old but has under 19,000 miles on it. On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. One thing I'd like to see: A diesel engine was never really designed to run over a wide range of RPMs. It was designed to run at a fixed, optimum RPM where it develops the most torque for the fuel it consumes. Diesel powered trains run at a constant RPM and the power generated is converted to electricity to run electric drive motors. I'd really be interested in how applying that concept in cars or trucks, using the newer, high efficiency diesels and electric motors available today. I have often said the same thing... Wonder how a diesel powered, electric car would do... It would probably happen under this administration if they could figure a way to make a diesel engine that would run with a 50% ethanol mixture. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. |
Auto industry recovery
On 8/29/13 5:50 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Cummins has announced it will be building a 5.0 liter diesel to be used in Nissan pickup trucks. http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5L-V8-turbo-diesel |
Auto industry recovery
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Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:50:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Hey, this turbo-charged 1.4L diesel in my wife's VW is a sporty little bugger. I probably couldn't outrun a Mustang GT, but it'd have to be filled up a lot more often then the VW. It has no problems merging on the interstate. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Auto industry recovery
In article , says...
On 8/29/13 5:50 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Cummins has announced it will be building a 5.0 liter diesel to be used in Nissan pickup trucks. http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5L-V8-turbo-diesel Most European cars are running sub 2 liter diesel motors. |
Auto industry recovery
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Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:14:15 -0400, John H
wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:50:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Hey, this turbo-charged 1.4L diesel in my wife's VW is a sporty little bugger. I probably couldn't outrun a Mustang GT, but it'd have to be filled up a lot more often then the VW. It has no problems merging on the interstate. ==== The original VW Rabbit diesel was not turbo'd and it had a hard time getting out of its own way. We owned one back in the late 70s and could have sold it for more than we payed a year later when gas lines were going around the block. |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:44:22 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:14:15 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:50:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Hey, this turbo-charged 1.4L diesel in my wife's VW is a sporty little bugger. I probably couldn't outrun a Mustang GT, but it'd have to be filled up a lot more often then the VW. It has no problems merging on the interstate. ==== The original VW Rabbit diesel was not turbo'd and it had a hard time getting out of its own way. We owned one back in the late 70s and could have sold it for more than we payed a year later when gas lines were going around the block. My brother had one of the little VW diesel pickups back then. You're right - way underpowered. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:52 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On 8/29/13 5:50 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Cummins has announced it will be building a 5.0 liter diesel to be used in Nissan pickup trucks. http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5L-V8-turbo-diesel Most European cars are running sub 2 liter diesel motors. === There are some but that's not what you see on the expressways doing 90+ mph. We had two different diesel rentals in France several years ago. One was a turbo 5 cylinder Peugot if I remember correctly and it had very decent power. The other was a VW van that was close to commercial size. It too had a substantial turbo engine and lots of pep. We were going through the French, Swiss and Italian Alps with 4 adults and a lot of luggage. It never lacked for power. |
Auto industry recovery
BAR wrote:
In article , says... On 8/29/13 5:50 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Cummins has announced it will be building a 5.0 liter diesel to be used in Nissan pickup trucks. http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5L-V8-turbo-diesel Most European cars are running sub 2 liter diesel motors. Toyota as a large diesel that Yanmar converts for the Jetboating crowd. Friend has one in his 25' Precision Weld and gets about 4.5 mpg on plane. |
Auto industry recovery
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:12:34 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:06:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:11:42 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:21:27 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/29/2013 2:04 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I have often said the same thing... Wonder how a diesel powered, electric car would do... It would probably happen under this administration if they could figure a way to make a diesel engine that would run with a 50% ethanol mixture. John (Gun Nut) H. Bio diesel is the sweetheart of the moment. There are so many people around here burning cooking oil that used oil has gone from something they had to pay to haul away to another profit center. (usually pure cash for the chef or restaurant manager) At my wife's place they trade it for free electrical work. Their electrician runs his trucks on cooking oil. My owner's manual specifically prohibits it. But I hear it's pretty damn cheap! John (Gun Nut) H. This guy has a home built reprocessing facility in his shop and he says the resulting oil is as good as anything you get from a pump. The problem with 100% biodiesel is a low cetane number, and almost no lubricity. Mix it 50/50 and is much better. Do not know what it does to seals. My primer pump on my Duramax had to change the O-rings as the low sulphur fuel was not good with the variety of seal material GM used. Can buy the Vitol seal kit for $11 and takes about an hour to change. |
Auto industry recovery
John H wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:50:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Hey, this turbo-charged 1.4L diesel in my wife's VW is a sporty little bugger. I probably couldn't outrun a Mustang GT, but it'd have to be filled up a lot more often then the VW. It has no problems merging on the interstate. John (Gun Nut) H. About 8 years ago I rented a Jetta TDI in Italy. Coming south from the Cinqua Terra I ran 145 kph for hours, with a burst or two to 165 kph. Still got great milage. And was no dog. I pulled into a full service station and said it probably required premium fuel. Attendant pointed out Olio. Diesel is cheaper in Europe, as has a lot less taxes on it. Opposite here. |
Auto industry recovery
On 8/29/2013 8:53 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:12:34 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:06:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:11:42 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:21:27 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/29/2013 2:04 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I have often said the same thing... Wonder how a diesel powered, electric car would do... It would probably happen under this administration if they could figure a way to make a diesel engine that would run with a 50% ethanol mixture. John (Gun Nut) H. Bio diesel is the sweetheart of the moment. There are so many people around here burning cooking oil that used oil has gone from something they had to pay to haul away to another profit center. (usually pure cash for the chef or restaurant manager) At my wife's place they trade it for free electrical work. Their electrician runs his trucks on cooking oil. My owner's manual specifically prohibits it. But I hear it's pretty damn cheap! John (Gun Nut) H. This guy has a home built reprocessing facility in his shop and he says the resulting oil is as good as anything you get from a pump. I gotta' look back through my FB posts.. I have a picture of a hippie bus in there I ran into last year at the end of the season. They came and got about 6 gallons of cooking oil from my fryer and ran it in their bus. The bus is equipt with a filter pump and system right in line so you pour the straight cooking oil in one tank, it cleans and filters it, and runs it in the engine all in one shot.... |
Auto industry recovery
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Auto industry recovery
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Auto industry recovery
In article ,
says... On 8/29/2013 8:53 PM, wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:12:34 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:06:55 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:11:42 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:21:27 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/29/2013 2:04 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I have often said the same thing... Wonder how a diesel powered, electric car would do... It would probably happen under this administration if they could figure a way to make a diesel engine that would run with a 50% ethanol mixture. John (Gun Nut) H. Bio diesel is the sweetheart of the moment. There are so many people around here burning cooking oil that used oil has gone from something they had to pay to haul away to another profit center. (usually pure cash for the chef or restaurant manager) At my wife's place they trade it for free electrical work. Their electrician runs his trucks on cooking oil. My owner's manual specifically prohibits it. But I hear it's pretty damn cheap! John (Gun Nut) H. This guy has a home built reprocessing facility in his shop and he says the resulting oil is as good as anything you get from a pump. I gotta' look back through my FB posts.. I have a picture of a hippie bus in there I ran into last year at the end of the season. They came and got about 6 gallons of cooking oil from my fryer and ran it in their bus. The bus is equipt with a filter pump and system right in line so you pour the straight cooking oil in one tank, it cleans and filters it, and runs it in the engine all in one shot.... Oh, horse****! It just isn't that easy. |
Auto industry recovery
On 8/29/2013 11:05 PM, Califbill wrote:
BAR wrote: In article , says... On 8/29/13 5:50 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Cummins has announced it will be building a 5.0 liter diesel to be used in Nissan pickup trucks. http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5L-V8-turbo-diesel Most European cars are running sub 2 liter diesel motors. Toyota as a large diesel that Yanmar converts for the Jetboating crowd. Friend has one in his 25' Precision Weld and gets about 4.5 mpg on plane. Cummins seems to be enjoying a near monopoly in on the road truck engines thanks to EPA. The other makers of large diesels will probably move their operations offshore and charge more for their off road and marine equipment shipped to the US. |
Auto industry recovery
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 22:05:39 -0500, Califbill wrote:
John H wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:50:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:04:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On the same note, I was reading the other day that diesel power may soon become the engine of choice for a wide range of both passenger vehicles as well as trucks. The new ones are clean, very fuel efficient and make more practical sense than any of the electric hybrids currently available. === In Europe where fuel is more than twice as expensive as it is here, a high percentage of the passenger vehicles are diesel power. They are not performance slugs either like the old Volkswagon and Mercedes models. Hey, this turbo-charged 1.4L diesel in my wife's VW is a sporty little bugger. I probably couldn't outrun a Mustang GT, but it'd have to be filled up a lot more often then the VW. It has no problems merging on the interstate. John (Gun Nut) H. About 8 years ago I rented a Jetta TDI in Italy. Coming south from the Cinqua Terra I ran 145 kph for hours, with a burst or two to 165 kph. Still got great milage. And was no dog. I pulled into a full service station and said it probably required premium fuel. Attendant pointed out Olio. Diesel is cheaper in Europe, as has a lot less taxes on it. Opposite here. I think it's a great little car, and that engine is damn quick. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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