What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I
found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/

The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The
M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow with
a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two
person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in it's
main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The
flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds.
The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or
two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana, Michigan,
Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario,
Canada.

The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and a
healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area!

Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at
for more details!





"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

According to the Australian Yachting Federation Special Regulations, the
definition of a "Monohull" is, "A hull in which the hull depth in any
section does not decrease towards the centre-line. All other boats are
considered to be Multihulls".

I am not intimately familiar with the M20, but from what I have read, it
sounds like it would (according to this definition) definitely be
categorised as a multihull.

Nonetheless, a very speedy looking boat indeed.

"MM9995" wrote in message
m...
Because it had a tunneled hull the M-20 SCOW was considered the fastest. I
found the following at: http://www.m20scow.com/

The M-20 was designed in 1963 by Buddy and Harry Melges of Zenda, WI. The
M-20 is the only scow design with a tunneled hull and the original scow
with
a high aspect rig. The M-20 is an extremely fast boat that keeps it's two
person crew on their toes. The M-20 carries 175 square feet of sail in
it's
main and jib, plus a 250 square foot spinnaker for downwind speed. The
flexible and adjustable rig allows for crew weights of 270 to 450 pounds.
The boat is typically raced by two person teams including coed, two men or
two women. There are currently active fleets in Colorado, Indiana,
Michigan,
Minnesota, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, and also in Ontario,
Canada.

The M-20 is a great all around boat with active fleets, a new builder and
a
healthy used boat market. Start a fleet in your area!

Order Your New M20 Today for less than $14,000! E-mail Scowbuilders at
for more details!





"Harken Ronstan" wrote in message
om...
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

Harken Ronstan wrote:
What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.

According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the
next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855
for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart
Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon
it is about 700.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

Andy,
Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards
can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not
in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that
only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula"
class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on
the upwind legs.
Ray

Andy Champ wrote:

Harken Ronstan wrote:

What is the fastest mono-hull (non-sailboard)on a windward leeward or
triangle course these days?

I estimate: 505, Intl 14 GP, 49er, 18ft skiff are contenders.
Since they all plane up wind, waterline is less of an issue so I would
guess larger craft like an E scow, and A scow are in this class.


According to the RYA, the 49er's yardstick of 747 is 73 faster than the
next boat - the RS800. I14 is 864, and 505 a mere 902. They quote 855
for the Projection 762 (keelboat). They've also got 689 for the Dart
Hawk cat. No good number for the 18ft skiff, but Datchet Water reckon
it is about 700.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

Ray Kuntz wrote:
Andy,
Just curious, what experience do you base your statement "sailboards
can't keep up on a proper course, they are damn fast on a reach and not
in any other direction". The consensus in windsurfing seems to be that
only Americas Cup boats are competitive with modern Windsurfer "Formula"
class hulls on upwind/downwind downwind courses and then primarily on
the upwind legs.
Ray


Hmmm I seem to have stirred this one up. Apart from "popular opinion"
and the fact that all the ones I've raced against don't seem any quicker
around the course than my Solo (UK PY=1155, a tad slower than a Laser)
there's the US Sailing PY tables:


WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE
CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9

Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1)
Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0)
Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3

That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I
thought, but still not exactly world shattering.

That race in San Francisco? Well, it's downwind.....

Andy

In article Andy Champ writes:
WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE
CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9

Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1)
Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0)
Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3

That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I
thought, but still not exactly world shattering.

Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards
can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which
means about 8 knots minimum.

I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all
sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table
you have quoted is antiquated.

Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle,
but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers
seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula
boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light
winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part.

It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't
ended up as a flame war - yet.

--
Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.

You are right Juri, the yachting world still thinks windsurfers are all 12
feet long and have retractable center boards with smallish sails like 7.4
and 6 m2. I like both sailing worlds and sail in both. Until the 70 cm
fins and formula boards came along, beating any performance yacht around a
course was almost impossible. Now for almost any sailboat to beat a Formula
board around a course would require the winds to be under about 9 knots,
provided the board is sailed by a top racer of course.

On another point, for all out fun and feel for speed, the now old Flying
Dutchman was a fun boat and plenty lively, but perhaps not in today's league
of high performance boats. Still, the FD in high winds was quite a thrill.
And as to the reference to sailboats pulling water skiers, there are more
than a few that can do that including a venerable old Mallory and Adams Cup
boat called the Flying Scot. I mention the Scot because these were raced
against M20's from time to time and I remember one collision. It seems the
Scot is like a flying tank (planes easily but is a big hull) and the M20 is
more like a china plate. These two boats came to together on a plane and
the Scot T-boned the M20, crushing it like an egg. That may be the only way
a Formula board (when powered up) would lose to a sailboat. No doubt our
Formula boards are the king of egg shells.

CI

"Juri Munkki" wrote in message
...
In article Andy Champ
writes:
WINDSURFER CLASSES CLASS D-PN WIND HC FOR BEAUFORT RANGE
CODE 0-1 2-3 4 5-9

Div II (SA = 6m2) SB-2 92.6 98.4 94.6 88.4 (85.1)
Div IIB (SA = 6-7m2) SB-2B 89.7 96.3 92.6 83.8 (82.0)
Div IIC (SA = 7m2) SB-2C 86.7 84.4 87.3

That puts the fastest boards about the same as a 470. faster than I
thought, but still not exactly world shattering.

Div II sailboards are from the early 1980s. Formula Windsurfing boards
can run circles around those, as long as there's enough wind, which
means about 8 knots minimum.

I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all
sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table
you have quoted is antiquated.

Formula boards go upwind pretty well. Not the best in terms of angle,
but very good speed, so the VMG is probably respectable. Local racers
seem to think that 49ers would be better in light winds, but formula
boards could win in medium to high winds. Even in medium to light
winds, it's very close and skill plays a huge part.

It's nice to see that a widely crossposted thread like this hasn't
ended up as a flame war - yet.

--
Juri Munkki What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.

Juri Munkki wrote:
I'm not saying that they're the fastest thing out there of all
sailing vessels for a course...I'm just stating that the table
you have quoted is antiquated.

Best table I could find. There's nothing on the RYA, and that is US
sailing's entire sailboard table. If you have something more recent I;m
sure we'd all like to see it!

I'm not surprised that a 2000-date board can beat my boat BTW - it was
designed in 1950-something. I'm quite aware that what I am doing is the
marine equivalent of racing a Norton...

Andy.

I think you'll find sailboards can't keep up on a proper course, they
are damn fast on a reach and not in any other direction.

Andy.

Andy,
there's this race in San Francisco, USA. It's between two bridges,
dead downwind. Anything powered by wind can enter. Kite boarders,
18ft skiffs, windsurfers. 2002 Kite boarder won, followed by a
windsurfer 2nd, followed by an 18ft skiff. 2003 Windsurfer won,
followed by an 18ft skiff.

Ronstan Bridge to Bridge, SF, CA

The skiffs do ok upwind but are still behind the windsurfer at the
upwind mark.
I proved that to myself today. There was some racing today on
Biscyane Bay.
420s, 29ers. I let the 29ers clear there start line. I sailed after
them on my windsurfer. Upwind downwind course proper. When I rounded
the upwind mark ahead of them, I waited till they rounded and passed
me, then I started for the downwind, past them all and was first to
the downwind.

AC boats would win the upwind in less then 10 knots. 10knots the
windsurfer would be waiting at the mark for the AC boat.

fastest production monohull (non-displacement , non -sailboard)?
My money would be on the 18ft skiff.