Columbus Trivia
 

It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the daughter of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China, (an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China. First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed for the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some objection the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to contribute?

Columbus Trivia
 

On 13 Oct 2003 04:53:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the daughter of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China, (an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China. First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed for the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some objection the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to contribute?
================

Chuck, you sound like a frustrated history Prof. What is the source
of these pearls if I may ask?

Columbus Trivia
 

On 13 Oct 2003 04:53:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the daughter of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China, (an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China. First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed for the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some objection the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to contribute?

Very interesting subject.

6. Cristo (as he was known to his friends) was returned to Spain in
chains (after his second voyage), for mismanagement of the new colony.
It seems that everyone he left behind to obtain gold was killed by the
natives.

7. CC has never been shown to have used celestial navigation to
"find" America, in fact, his surviving logs show a strict reliance
upon Dead Reckoning. He recorded extensive compass headings and
canting speed calculations in the log. Watch officers were required
to report these details.

8. We still do not know "for a fact" where he landed.
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/cclandfl.htm
Have fun with this. Maybe some of our "Southern Captains" can offer
some insight. Keep in mind that Colombus' "league" was shorter than
the modern league.

9. The arrival of Columbus is credited with the death of 80% to 90%
of the indiginous population of the area, through the introduction of
venerial disease, influenza, and armed violence.
Some "tribes" were exterminated completely.

10. One of the arguments used by Columbus to secure the support of
the Catholic monarchy of Spain was to prevent the spread of Islam to
the "East" (China). It is probable that he had no idea where he
landed, was opportunistic once he got there, and died not knowing how
far Cuba was from China.

....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

Columbus Trivia
 

Ok how about some early trivia about Columbus
1a. Born in Genoa 1451, the son of a wool merchant and weaver.
2a. in 1476 swims ashore when his ship sank in a battle off Portugal.
3a. Joins his brother Bartholomew in 1476 a cartographer in Lisbon.
4a. Makes multiple voyages as far as Iceland and Guinea 1477-1482.
5a. Moves to Spain in 1485.

I still think we should celebrate Leaf Erikson day instead.
Jack
"noah" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2003 04:53:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the
daughter of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical
celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries
before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a
common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because
they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would
question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the
scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the
Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not
officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the
church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China,
(an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a
commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China.
First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed
for the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some
objection the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the
area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the
late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus
was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to
contribute?

Very interesting subject.

6. Cristo (as he was known to his friends) was returned to Spain in
chains (after his second voyage), for mismanagement of the new colony.
It seems that everyone he left behind to obtain gold was killed by the
natives.

7. CC has never been shown to have used celestial navigation to
"find" America, in fact, his surviving logs show a strict reliance
upon Dead Reckoning. He recorded extensive compass headings and
canting speed calculations in the log. Watch officers were required
to report these details.

8. We still do not know "for a fact" where he landed.
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/cclandfl.htm
Have fun with this. Maybe some of our "Southern Captains" can offer
some insight. Keep in mind that Colombus' "league" was shorter than
the modern league.

9. The arrival of Columbus is credited with the death of 80% to 90%
of the indiginous population of the area, through the introduction of
venerial disease, influenza, and armed violence.
Some "tribes" were exterminated completely.

10. One of the arguments used by Columbus to secure the support of
the Catholic monarchy of Spain was to prevent the spread of Islam to
the "East" (China). It is probable that he had no idea where he
landed, was opportunistic once he got there, and died not knowing how
far Cuba was from China.

...carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

Columbus Trivia
 

noah wrote:

On 13 Oct 2003 04:53:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the daughter of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China, (an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China. First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed for the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some objection the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to contribute?

Very interesting subject.

6. Cristo (as he was known to his friends) was returned to Spain in
chains (after his second voyage), for mismanagement of the new colony.
It seems that everyone he left behind to obtain gold was killed by the
natives.

7. CC has never been shown to have used celestial navigation to
"find" America, in fact, his surviving logs show a strict reliance
upon Dead Reckoning. He recorded extensive compass headings and
canting speed calculations in the log. Watch officers were required
to report these details.

8. We still do not know "for a fact" where he landed.
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/cclandfl.htm
Have fun with this. Maybe some of our "Southern Captains" can offer
some insight. Keep in mind that Colombus' "league" was shorter than
the modern league.

9. The arrival of Columbus is credited with the death of 80% to 90%
of the indiginous population of the area, through the introduction of
venerial disease, influenza, and armed violence.
Some "tribes" were exterminated completely.

10. One of the arguments used by Columbus to secure the support of
the Catholic monarchy of Spain was to prevent the spread of Islam to
the "East" (China). It is probable that he had no idea where he
landed, was opportunistic once he got there, and died not knowing how
far Cuba was from China.

...carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.


Well, not to lower the level of discussion, but...

Columbus Day typically is celebrated as a holiday among many of the
international unions in the United States, so I don't have to make my
usual Monday morning trek into the District of Columbia.

Naturally, I'm a great fan of this Columbus fellow, for whatever the
heck he did!

Seriously, one of my favorite books about the "aftermath" of Columbus is
Seeds of Change, which discusses the explorer's role in introducing
European fauna and flora to the "New World," and vice versa.

It's published by the Smithsonian, that well-known leftist organization
of museums and knowledge.

--
__________________________________________________ __________
Email sent to will never reach me.

Columbus Trivia
 

Chuck, you sound like a frustrated history Prof. What is the source
of these pearls if I may ask?

There's a huge body of literature on Columbus. I must have read 100 Columbus
books over the last 35-40 years. Those points I listed above are among the
issues that the majority of the authors and researchers agree upon.

A good place to start is "The Four Voyages of Christopher Columbus," detailing
all four of his voyages to the west.

One of the difficulties with getting a good handle on Columbus is that when
those of us who are middle aged today were kids,
we were taught a lot of bogus information about him. I remember an illustration
in my grade school history book, showing Columbus holding up an orange and
trying to convice a group of scholars that the world was round. We were even
taught that Columbus made his voyage to the west to "prove the world was round
and that it would be possible to reach land by sailing over the horizon to the
west". What a hoot!
But the teachers didn't know any better, and taught us what they thought they
knew.

Columbus Trivia
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the daughter
of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical
celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries
before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a
common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because
they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would
question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the
scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the
Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not
officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the
church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China,
(an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a
commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China.
First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed for
the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some objection
the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the
area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the
late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus
was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to
contribute?

6. Dirk Pitt found his body in the New World, preserved by his indian
buddies. ;)

Columbus Trivia
 

Columbus made his fourth voyage from Spain to the Americas in 1502. He was
such a sure navigator by then that the 3500-mile voyage took a mere 21 days.
But he did not arrive happy. At Santo Domingo on June 29 Columbus requested
entry into the harbor for his five ships, and he urged the governor to
detain a 30-ship fleet ready to sail to Spain. He warned a terrible storm
was brewing. The governor and his retinue mocked Columbus as a phony
fortune-teller. Not only did the governor order the fleet to sail but denied
Columbus entry into the harbor.
"May God take you!' fumed Columbus. That was always his strongest
curse.
Once again Columbus was thwarted by dull, proud people. He was no gypsy
fortune-teller but the sea captain supreme. The mix of oily swells from the
southeast, abnormal tide, heaviness in the air, aching arthritis, wispy
cirrus clouds streaming high overhead, and a magnificent crimson sunset
meant only one thing: a savage hurricane was coming from the north or east!
Denied the harbor, Columbus anchored his ships off the southwest shore of
the island with protection from north and west. If anchors broke loose the
winds would drive them out to sea, not into shore. The 30 ships of the fleet
sailed east, then north through the Mona Passage. Barely underway into the
Atlantic the gold-laden fleet was hammered by ferocious winds. Within hours
20 ships sank with all hands. Nine others were driven ashore and battered to
bits. One ship of the fleet survived. A fortune in gold, 29 ships and 500
men were lost.
Columbus, with every anchor of his five caravels down, bitterly wrote
in his journal during the raging hurricane: 'What man ever born, not
excepting Job, would not have died of despair when in such weather - seeking
safety for son, brother shipmates and self - was forbidden the land and the
harbors that he, by God's will and sweating blood, had won for Spain!'
But once again the master of the sea prevailed. Columbus lost not one
ship from the deadly storm, not one man…

from http://www.heroesofhistory.com/page12.html


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?

I'll start off:

1. Cristobol Colon (Christopher Columbus) was once married to the
daughter
of
the governor of the Canary Islands. There are rumors that he converted
to
Catholicism from Judaism. He was a pioneer in the art of practical
celestial
navigation.

2. European seamen were well aware of "land to the west" for centuries
before
Colubus "discovered" America. Cod from the waters off Newfoundland was a
common
staple at fish markets in several European ports.

3. The Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the western lands because
they
were not mentioned in the Bible. There was a fear that people would
question
the absolute authority of the Bible (and thereby the Church) if it
became
common knowledge that the earth was not accurately described in the
scriptures.
This explains why the lands to the west were commonly discussed by the
Norse
(Vinland Sagas, etc) who were latecomers to Christianity, but not
officially
acknowledged in areas that had been more directly subjugated by Rome.

4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the
church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to
China,
(an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a
commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China.
First
fact in evidence: Columbus promised to "claim" locales where he landed
for
the
Spanish Crown. (The Emporer of China would, of course, have some
objection
the
the Spanish potentates laying claim to Formosa). Second fact in
evidence:
Columbus negotiated a deal to be named "The Admiral of the Western Sea."
(This would give him a share in any prizes or booty wrested from the
area.)
Spain would not have sought a naval war with China, particulary in the
late
15th cnetury. Additional fact in evidence, Colon promised to convert the
godless savages to Catholicism. There were no "godless savages" in
China.

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus
was
not
obsessed with "proving" it to be round.

There's five to get the ball rolling. Anybody else got a tidbit to
contribute?

6. Dirk Pitt found his body in the New World, preserved by his indian
buddies. ;)

Columbus Trivia
 

Heres a "not so nice" excerpt comparing Columbus to Adolf Hitler & Al
Capone.
http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

Columbus Trivia
 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 04:53:49 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:

It's Columbus Day.

Would it be appropriate to compile a list of Columbus trivia?


4. To get permission to sail to a land that the super authority, the church,
denied even existed, Cristobol petitioned to make an expedition to China, (an
officially recognized locale). He pitched a religious as well as a commercial
angle, but it is
rather evident that he knew full well he would not be landing in China.
SNIP

5. In 1492, most people did not believe the world was flat, and Columbus was
not obsessed with "proving" it to be round.


The Story I heard was that the "fact" in question was not whether or not
the world was flat, but of it's size. Some (not sure who the Players
were...) contended it was about 24000 miles around (close to the correct
figure). Others, including Columbus, contended it was about 5000 miles -
so a journey west to Chine was eminently possible.

Columbus was still wrong when he hit land, which was why he named it
"Indies" and the natives "Indians".

Lloyd

ps - a belated Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! I'm still burbin' turkey!

ls