BoatBanter.com

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- General (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/)

- - Cutter (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/15447-re-cutter.html)

"Jeanne" lifted the trapdoor, peered
around and wrote:

Trying to find a true definition of a cutter as opposed to a sloop

A cutter has two fore-sails.

A Sloop is also know as a "Bermudan rig"

Most Single-mast yachts could be Cutter rigged or Bermudan rigged.

Yachts and sailing ships nomenclature is quite complicated. Basically, take any boat and add or remove a sail (i.e., change the way
the sails are rigged) and now the boats definition has changed. E.g., Adding a headsail changes a sloop into a cutter. I.e., It
becomes "Cutter rigged." Whether a sailboat is a cutter or a sloop depends on how it is rigged. Take a sloop and add a second
head sail and it becomes a cutter. Take a sloop, add a small mast abaft the sternpost and it becomes a yawl. Take a sloop and add
a small mast forward of the sternpost and it becomes a ketch.

Sloop-A single-masted fore-and-aft-rigged sailing vessel with a single headsail set from the forestay.

Cutter-A single-masted fore-and-aft-rigged sailing vessel with two headsails.

Ketch-Two-masted boats, the after mast shorter, but with a ketch the after mast is forward of the sternpost

Yawl-A sailboat with two masts, the after mast shorter, and set abaft the sternpost.

Schooner-A sailing ship with at least 2 masts (foremast and mainmast) with the mainmast being the taller.

Topsail Schooner- A schooner with a square rigged sail on forward mast

Here are some pictures of different rigs:

http://www.givemeweb.com/bwmw/library/yachtrigs.html

"Jeanne" wrote in message ...

Hi Guys.......

Trying to find a true definition of a cutter as opposed to a sloop. As I
have always understood it, a sloop has its mast stepped at 2/5ths of the
distance from the waterline of the bow to the waterline of the stern -
waterline being the key. And a cutter has its mast halfway between the
waterline of the bow to the waterline of the stern. But the other
definition I find is that a sloop is 2/5ths of the overall length while a
cutter is 1/2 that distance including the usual bow sprint. Who's correct
here?
Thanks,
Bruce

You are truly ignorant of all things nautical.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message ...
Take a sloop and add a second
head sail and it becomes a cutter.

Actually, it is still a sloop, though a twin-headsail sloop.

The definition of "cutter" has become more of "twin headsails" through common
usage but still to this day a cutter has a main mast placed aft of the main
mast of a sloop.

there are no 2 head sail sloops . I do not know who you have been
talking to but they are blowing a lot of smoke .
the 2nd jib on a cutter adds greater pulling power to the sails that is
why it is used and was popular back in the days when there was nothing
but sail.
;o)

JAXAshby wrote:

Take a sloop and add a second
head sail and it becomes a cutter.

Actually, it is still a sloop, though a twin-headsail sloop.

The definition of "cutter" has become more of "twin headsails" through common
usage but still to this day a cutter has a main mast placed aft of the main
mast of a sloop.

--

ooooO Allan
( )
\ ( the Netherlands
(__)

Thanks Guys......

Not a big concern for my lists of morphemes. But I was challenged lately by
a lady who "knew all" about boats and I was embarrassed without a response -
while I maneuvered my "cutter". The 2/5 and 1/2 things came from
Encyclopedia of Sailing by the editors of Yacht Racing/Cruising (Harper &
Row). Anyhow, this has been enlightening and shows different approaches to
the same problem - huh?

Cheers,
Bruce

"Jeanne" wrote in message
...

Hi Guys.......

Trying to find a true definition of a cutter as opposed to a sloop. As I
have always understood it, a sloop has its mast stepped at 2/5ths of the
distance from the waterline of the bow to the waterline of the stern -
waterline being the key. And a cutter has its mast halfway between the
waterline of the bow to the waterline of the stern. But the other
definition I find is that a sloop is 2/5ths of the overall length while a
cutter is 1/2 that distance including the usual bow sprint. Who's correct
here?
Thanks,
Bruce

"steveb" wrote in message

"Jeanne" lifted the trapdoor, peered
around and wrote:

Trying to find a true definition of a cutter as opposed to a sloop

A cutter has two fore-sails.

A Sloop is also know as a "Bermudan rig"

Don't think so.

"Bermudan" refers to the triangular masthead mainsail, as opposed to a
quadrilateral gaff-rigged main.

snip

John

Hey einstein, your defintion suggests that any boat at port with no sails
rigged has no classification. You are the ignorant man.

By definition: "The cutter is a single-masted boat whose mast is stepped
almost near the center of the boat. Cutters often carry two relatively
small jibs rather than one big one."
-Annapolis Book of Seamanship

note the word "often"

"jlrogers" wrote in message
. ..
You are truly ignorant of all things nautical.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Take a sloop and add a second
head sail and it becomes a cutter.

Actually, it is still a sloop, though a twin-headsail sloop.

The definition of "cutter" has become more of "twin headsails" through
common
usage but still to this day a cutter has a main mast placed aft of the
main
mast of a sloop.

If you have two foresails attached to two stays, it is not a sloop.

nope.

there are no 2 head sail sloops

sure there are

the 2nd jib on a cutter adds greater pulling power

not usually, but yes under some limited conditions.

Unless one believes word meanings are divinely ordained, both answers are
correct.

language continues to change. Up until very recently a sloop with two head
sails was called a "twin head sail" sloop, though through usage (and lack of
understanding on the part of many users), people are begining to use the turm
cutter for any boat with twin head sails. I don't know that I have head any
naval architect use the terms in any but the traditional way.

probably, ten or twenty years from now cutter and twin head sails will be the
same.

fine response, jl. ill-informed on your part to be sure, but nevertheless a
fine, fine response on your part.

now go back to study hall.

You are truly ignorant of all things nautical.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Take a sloop and add a second
head sail and it becomes a cutter.

Actually, it is still a sloop, though a twin-headsail sloop.

The definition of "cutter" has become more of "twin headsails" through
common
usage but still to this day a cutter has a main mast placed aft of the main
mast of a sloop.

JAXAshby wrote:

fine response, jl. ill-informed on your part to be sure, but
nevertheless a fine, fine response on your part.

now go back to study hall.

You are truly ignorant of all things nautical.

Only, he is right. You are not
--
If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the remaining 3%?

Must be a politician arguing his point. the definition being what ever
fits what they want it to be , but the standard dictionaries and
references point to another idea the standard thought.
Are you related to G. Weasel Bush?

JAXAshby wrote:

If you have two foresails attached to two stays, it is not a sloop.

nope.

--

ooooO Allan
( )
\ ( the Netherlands
(__)

horse hockey.

JAXAshby wrote:

fine response, jl. ill-informed on your part to be sure, but
nevertheless a fine, fine response on your part.

now go back to study hall.

You are truly ignorant of all things nautical.

Only, he is right. You are not
--
If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the remaining 3%?

no dummy, it is a sloop with twin head sails.

which is different from a cutter.

Give it up Pete, or wait 20 to 40 years before the cutters are defined as the
number of headsails, not by the main mast placement as they are now.

JAXAshby wrote:

If you have two foresails attached to two stays, it is not a sloop.

nope.

Right, it is not a sloop then
--
A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant:
first, get a huge block of marble; then you chip
away everything that doesn't look like an elephant.

JAXAshby wrote:

dum dum, I *am* using the dicitionary definition -- as used by those
knowledgeable in things nautical. It is _you_ who are using a somewhat common
-- but incorrect -- definition.

wait 20 to 40 years and the somewhat common -- but incorrect -- definition will
be the standard.

But living today means using today's definition.

Must be a politician arguing his point. the definition being what ever
fits what they want it to be , but the standard dictionaries and
references point to another idea the standard thought.
Are you related to G. Weasel Bush?

JAXAshby wrote:

If you have two foresails attached to two stays, it is not a sloop.

nope.

--

According to the last hundred years of useage recorded in my
pocket oxford dictionary, informed people know that a cutter is a
sloop rigged boat with a bowsprit capable of setting two
headsails.

A sloop rig has one mast, and fore and aft rigged sails.

This implies that since the foremost stay will be at or near the
masthead, an inner fore stay would carry a smaller jib than the
headsail.

Sailors being what they are, one would expect to see various
combinations of sails hoisted on such a rig, and occasionally,
even a cutter with 3 headsails, for as long as it takes to
convince the owner that two is better.

As I understand it, knowlegable purists who want boats with such
versatility in mind generally consider that the rig works better
when the mast is placed a little farther aft than on a sloop
designed to fly only one headsail at a time.

I think an A frame mast and only one sail, a triangle intended to
go forewards or backwards, or a hard or even an inflated
reversible foil on an unstayed mast, with one small outrigger
float, a reversible proa, sounds best of all. It would of course
use an oolau for auxiliary propulsion.

As much as some would deny it, the word will mean the same for a
few years yet, until long after the ones who don't know what
"Duck!" means have all been Darwined.

--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Reproduction or conveyance for any unauthorised
purpose is THEFT and PLAGIARISM. Abuse is Invasion of privacy
and harassment. Abusers may be prosecuted. -This notice footer
released to public domain. Spamspoof salad by spamchock -
SofDevCo