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ESAD December 6th 12 01:45 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/6/12 8:43 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
...


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically correct
now-a-days.

:-)


LMAO!

You gave us a great read. I hope your mom was alive to witness that. She'd have been mighty proud of
her little boy!



Yours must be rolling around in her grave so fast, she's generating
electricity. Imagine having a racist as a son. Awful.


iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 02:09 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:19:35 PM UTC-5, jps wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 09:13:01 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:







"Eisboch" wrote in message


m...




That's my story and I am sticking to it.




jps:




BTW ... in case you are wondering ... yes, I paid somewhere around


37% in capital gains taxes.


Should have waited a few more years before selling. :-)




You struck while the iron was hot. Smart move.


Smart move to default on his debts and not pay his taxes? Is that a liberal's take on his situation?


Why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far right
ideals into one small, narrow minded category?

iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 02:09 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole
 
In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...


He was hired at that fee to restructure the company. So he earns the
money. Hostess main problem was a very expensive distribution network.
The drivers could not load a truck among other items of overhead.

He's part of the vulture capital firm that took over. Not enough that
these guys will reap large rewards for parting out a viable business
(save for their stupid decisions), they need to take exorbitant fees
too.


Hey, it's so easy to start and run a business, why don't you do it.
Oh, and get the union involved from the start, that way you will know
all the union rules. And don't question a rule just cause it looks
unproductive, it adds union jobs.
Mikek


http://tinyurl.com/brkkbgk


We bought Hostess mini muffins and Wonder bread each week. We were doing
our part to keep them in business.


Figures.

[email protected] December 6th 12 02:18 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



Smart move to default on his debts and not pay his taxes? Is that a liberal's take on his situation?




Why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far right
ideals into one small, narrow minded category?


You saying jps isn't a liberal?

Eisboch[_8_] December 6th 12 02:42 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 


"GuzzisRule" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
.. .


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically
correct
now-a-days.

:-)


LMAO!

You gave us a great read. I hope your mom was alive to witness that.
She'd have been mighty proud of
her little boy!

----------------------------------------

She's still around, but not in the best of shape. She's 85 and has a
rare form of progressive MS that limits her ability to get around.
My dad died a year before I sold the company. During his last years
he was carting my mother around all over the country to specialists
and medical facilities trying to diagnose what her (then undetermined)
medical problems were. It was after he died that the rare MS was
positively diagnosed.

I am not particularly religious, but things seem to happen for a
reason sometimes. She was going downhill emotionally and physically
after his death. Their house still had a mortgage on it and it was
not ideally set up for a wheelchair bound person. The sale of the
company suddenly put me in a financial position to pay off her
mortgage and then a year later we bought her a house nearer to us that
we extensively modified to accommodate her condition and situation.
She lived there for the next eight years until her physical condition
made an assisted living/nursing home necessary.

As I mentioned to JPS, there are a couple of more chapters to "the
story" that are as bizarre (or more so) as the one I disclosed here.
Someday maybe I'll write a book. Having a little money doesn't
guarantee happiness, but what you *do* with it certainly has it's
rewards that are not necessarily financial in nature.


iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 03:41 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

On Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...


Smart move to default on his debts and not pay his taxes? Is that a liberal's take on his situation?




Why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far right
ideals into one small, narrow minded category?


You saying jps isn't a liberal?


No. Do you think all conservatives are like the Westboro church people?

iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 03:44 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

"GuzzisRule" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
.. .


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically
correct
now-a-days.

:-)


LMAO!

You gave us a great read. I hope your mom was alive to witness that.
She'd have been mighty proud of
her little boy!

----------------------------------------

She's still around, but not in the best of shape. She's 85 and has a
rare form of progressive MS that limits her ability to get around.
My dad died a year before I sold the company. During his last years
he was carting my mother around all over the country to specialists
and medical facilities trying to diagnose what her (then undetermined)
medical problems were. It was after he died that the rare MS was
positively diagnosed.

I am not particularly religious, but things seem to happen for a
reason sometimes. She was going downhill emotionally and physically
after his death. Their house still had a mortgage on it and it was
not ideally set up for a wheelchair bound person. The sale of the
company suddenly put me in a financial position to pay off her
mortgage and then a year later we bought her a house nearer to us that
we extensively modified to accommodate her condition and situation.
She lived there for the next eight years until her physical condition
made an assisted living/nursing home necessary.

As I mentioned to JPS, there are a couple of more chapters to "the
story" that are as bizarre (or more so) as the one I disclosed here.
Someday maybe I'll write a book. Having a little money doesn't
guarantee happiness, but what you *do* with it certainly has it's
rewards that are not necessarily financial in nature.


I had an aunt who died after a lot of hospital/recovery/hospital/take
this out, etc. My uncle went downhill quite fast after her death. It was
sad to watch. You should be commended for helping make your mom as
comfortable as possible.

thumper December 6th 12 04:39 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/6/2012 6:15 AM, wrote:

Close enough. "If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."


Deliberate lack of context to alter the meaning. That's dishonest.


GuzzisRule December 6th 12 04:46 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 09:42:58 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"GuzzisRule" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
. ..


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically
correct
now-a-days.

:-)


LMAO!

You gave us a great read. I hope your mom was alive to witness that.
She'd have been mighty proud of
her little boy!

----------------------------------------

She's still around, but not in the best of shape. She's 85 and has a
rare form of progressive MS that limits her ability to get around.
My dad died a year before I sold the company. During his last years
he was carting my mother around all over the country to specialists
and medical facilities trying to diagnose what her (then undetermined)
medical problems were. It was after he died that the rare MS was
positively diagnosed.

I am not particularly religious, but things seem to happen for a
reason sometimes. She was going downhill emotionally and physically
after his death. Their house still had a mortgage on it and it was
not ideally set up for a wheelchair bound person. The sale of the
company suddenly put me in a financial position to pay off her
mortgage and then a year later we bought her a house nearer to us that
we extensively modified to accommodate her condition and situation.
She lived there for the next eight years until her physical condition
made an assisted living/nursing home necessary.

As I mentioned to JPS, there are a couple of more chapters to "the
story" that are as bizarre (or more so) as the one I disclosed here.
Someday maybe I'll write a book. Having a little money doesn't
guarantee happiness, but what you *do* with it certainly has it's
rewards that are not necessarily financial in nature.


My mom died in '97. She was living in Seattle, was diagnosed with leukemia, and I talked her into
moving in with us. She didn't like the idea, but eventually realized it was for her own good. The
doctors told me she'd probably live another 5-7 years. She moved here in August and died in October
of the same year. Damn shame.

Sorry to hear about your mom's health. Sounds like you've done all you can.

iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 04:49 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article , lid says...

On 12/6/2012 6:15 AM,
wrote:

Close enough. "If you?ve got a business?you didn?t build that. Somebody else made that happen."


Deliberate lack of context to alter the meaning. That's dishonest.


That's how they roll!

[email protected] December 6th 12 06:23 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Thursday, December 6, 2012 10:41:57 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:


In article ,


says...


Smart move to default on his debts and not pay his taxes? Is that a liberal's take on his situation?



Why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far right
ideals into one small, narrow minded category?



You saying jps isn't a liberal?


No. Do you think all conservatives are like the Westboro church people?


No. Do you think all conservatives listen to Rush and watch FOX? If not, why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far left ideals into one small, narrow minded category?

iBoaterer[_2_] December 6th 12 07:28 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

On Thursday, December 6, 2012 10:41:57 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:


In article ,


says...


Smart move to default on his debts and not pay his taxes? Is that a liberal's take on his situation?



Why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far right
ideals into one small, narrow minded category?



You saying jps isn't a liberal?


No. Do you think all conservatives are like the Westboro church people?


No. Do you think all conservatives listen to Rush and watch FOX? If not, why must you lump everyone that doesn't 100% agree with your far left ideals into one small, narrow minded category?


No, I don't. But I believe that the ones that are here espousing Rush's
and other FOXite's exact words must have gottent them from somewhere.

BAR[_2_] December 7th 12 12:42 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article , says...

On 12/6/12 8:43 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
...


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically correct
now-a-days.

:-)


LMAO!

You gave us a great read. I hope your mom was alive to witness that. She'd have been mighty proud of
her little boy!



Yours must be rolling around in her grave so fast, she's generating
electricity. Imagine having a racist as a son. Awful.


She paid her taxes unlike you, deadbeat.



jps December 7th 12 04:37 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
.. .


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

No loans, very little money invested outside of the prinicipals, all
profits plunged back into R&D. I hope to experience a similar day to
yours, before I keel over or move into an old folks home.

Love reading your story, thanks for sharing.

One difference I'll point out between venture vs. vulture. Venture
capitalists are more interested in making successes of their bets,
vultures don't care where the profits come from, even if it's the
company pension plan or burying the company in debt, the cash from
which is paid out to the vulture capital firm.

------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing I always believed (at the risk of it sounding like Mitt
Romney).

Treat the company as if it's a person. Guide it, nurture it, grow it,
protect it.
If you take care of the company, the company will take care of you and
it's employees.
The "company" becomes the personification of all the people within it,
and they will prosper as the company does.

As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.


Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

jps December 7th 12 04:41 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
.. .


We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically correct
now-a-days.

:-)


Oh, I built it alright. But I also recognize that I'd have had little
chance of success without the investment we've all made in US
infrastructure. Public, higher ed is responsible for the brain trust
that makes our company's products. The internet helps us market our
products and conduct efficient communications. Our shipments go out
over road and bridges we all bought.

I pay plenty of taxes but I didn't build the infrastructure that
supports my company.

jps December 7th 12 04:59 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 08:39:47 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 12/6/2012 6:15 AM, wrote:

Close enough. "If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."


Deliberate lack of context to alter the meaning. That's dishonest.


It's the only way three poontang can win an argument. He's as
clueless and Romney was in the last days of his campaign.

Eisboch[_8_] December 8th 12 12:22 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 


"jps" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.


Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted
a total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and
non-vintage guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on
eBay. He averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost
(not including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K.
The post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.





Earl[_66_] December 8th 12 03:28 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
Eisboch wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.


Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted a
total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and non-vintage
guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on eBay. He
averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost (not
including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K. The
post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.




There's nothing wrong with that.

GuzzisRule December 8th 12 05:11 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:22:28 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



"jps" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.


Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted
a total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and
non-vintage guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on
eBay. He averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost
(not including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K.
The post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.




I've done the same thing with a couple old Moto Guzzi motorcycles. Sold the individual parts and
netted three times what I'd have gotten for the bikes.

Tim December 13th 12 03:40 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Dec 5, 7:36*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"jps" *wrote in message

...

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 18:41:32 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

The bonuses to management and salaries of the hired "turnaround" guy
are peanuts when compared to the overall debt and are very
commonplace
in Chapter 7 situations like this. * The bankruptcy judge approved
them for reason. * The simplistic views of bystanders are
understandable but don't reflect reality.


Except the "turnaround" guy is part of the vulture capital group. Just
another way to suck the bones dry whilst they're screwing the
employees out of their pensions and whatever else they can grab.

Who's to say your idea that it's far more complex isn't just another
view of a "bystander" who doesn't understand how awfully simple it all
is?
-------------------------------------------------------

I am not an expert on the subject but I've had some direct experience.
I was a principle (small, 5% stockholder and employee) in a company
that had venture capital, bank and private (me included) *financing.
The company did ok for several years but started coming apart
financially in 1986 due to Congress debating tax reforms for over a
year. * Orders for equipment were put on hold and some orders were
cancelled because the customers (primarily large commercial and
defense contractors) didn't know how the tax reform debate would
affect their bottom lines. *Very similar to what's going on today.

I witnessed up front and personal as the venture capital group
installed a turn around specialist in the company with all the best of
intentions.
I can tell you that they view the company strictly through financial
eyes and not from any sense of loyalty to employees or consideration
to their families. *They have a hard core attitude that is at odds
with the company's management who typically have some emotions
involved and have no desire to lay people off. *The turn around guy,
along with management, has to determine which employees are absolutely
necessary for jobs in progress and for company value for a potential
sale or further investment. * It's not a pleasant experience, but it
is necessary. *He was doing his job. *It tore me apart.

In the end, the bank called the note owed to them and the company went
into involuntary bankruptcy. *The primary principle, CEO and president
knew it was coming and skipped town a few weeks before, "on vacation".
He was seriously affected and in a state of acute depression. * I
happened to be second in command *in the owner's absence and tried
unsuccessfully to contact him when employee's paychecks started
bouncing. *I called the bank and learned that all the company's
accounts were frozen. * I then *called the company's attorneys and was
advised to immediately lay off *all* remaining employees which was not
exactly a wonderful experience. * Ultimately, the company was sold in
an "arranged" auction by the bankruptcy court.

That's is the *simplified* version of what happened in this example.
Obviously, there were many more details and gut retching issues during
this horrible experience. *I left that company immediately after the
sale and worked as a consultant to a major defense contractor to make
ends meet.
I was then 37 years old.

There was a personal benefit derived from it however. * A few years
later, when I started my own company, *I swore to never make the
mistakes that I witnessed during this experience. * *I've mentioned
the company from time to time here in the newsgroup but have never
told the whole story. * As a business owner, you may find it
interesting, *so here goes:

In January of 1990, *I incorporated the company. *Like the one that
went bankrupt in 1988, *it designed and built high tech capital
equipment for commercial and military applications. * Initially the
company consisted of me, my wife (receptionist and book keeper) and a
friend from the previous company. *We did all the engineering and
design and subcontracted all the fabrication, machining and heavy
construction. *We did the control systems in-house and the final
assembly and test.

The only funding was my personal savings of approximately $25,000. *We
secured a couple of small contracts from people we knew from the
previous company. * I will always be grateful for their support and
confidence that they exhibited at the time. *Bigger contracts came
along in short order. * These are large dollar value items and they
are typically paid on a "progress payment schedule" *that consisted of
several payments over the period of the contract, based on achievement
of specified milestones. *I managed the finances essentially by having
the customers finance their own projects.

I never had a bank line of credit or loan and I never borrowed any
money from anyone. *We added equipment when we could to do almost all
the fabrication in-house, paid for out of profit, not loans. *I also
sought and brought into the company several highly qualified people in
engineering, finance and manufacturing disiplines, *giving them all a
stock position as well as a salary.

By the end of 1999, the company had grown to about 70 employees with
revenues of about $17M annually. *It came up on the radar screen of
some bigger companies and two of them ended up making formal offers to
acquire it in late 2000.

At the time the physical assets of the company (meaning manufacturing
equipment, engineering equipment, test equipment, etc.) *probably
totaled about $500K *in value. * The rest of the value of the company
was in intellectual property and goodwill.

One of the two companies offered a deal whereby the stockholders in my
company would receive stock in the their company.
My company would become a division of theirs, building equipment only
for them.

The other company offered cash. *They wanted to expand the company
with further investments and market our equipment to the industry in
general.

Now, I may be uneducated in the ways of business and finance, but I am
not a complete idiot. *The company had grown to a point where it
needed the expertise and resources of a larger organization for
continued growth. * At this point I still owned 67% of the company and
it was getting more complicated to run. * I knew my limits.

So, the company was acquired for a little over $21 million *in cash.
The due diligence lasted only about 3 months before closing and every
day that I got up I couldn't believe it was all really happening. * We
had no debt, *no bank loans and no venture capitalists to pay off.
The proceeds went to the stockholders.

At the time of closing, and after all the adjustments were made for
work in progress, etc., *the company had $1.5M *in the bank, which we
would retain.

A week before the closing, I called a meeting of all the stockholders
and proposed an employee bonus plan, using this money.
It was unanimously agreed to.

The day after the closing, I called a meeting of all the employees.
My wife had made out checks to everyone. *It basically came down to
$1,000 for every month or part of a month that the employee had worked
for the company. * Several *had been with the company for 10 years.
The average was about 6 years. *Some received over $120,000. *A couple
had just joined the company, but still received at least $1,000.

That day was one of the most satisfying day of my life. * Several
people received enough money to pay off their home mortgages. *Others
now had the money to buy their first house. * It was funny as hell to
watch the reaction when I announced the bonus formula. *You could see
people mentally adding up the number of months they had been employed
as I explained how it would work. * Meanwhile, my wife was walking
around handing out envelopes with the checks in them to all the
employees. * Great day.

As for me, *part of the acquisition deal included a three year
"consulting" agreement and non-compete clause. *They didn't have to
worry. *To this day I have no regrets and absolutely no interest in
getting involved in that industry again.

The only reason I started the goofy guitar shop thing is because I was
starting to drive my poor wife nuts, not having anything of importance
to do.
She's the one who, after looking at my modest collection of guitars,
amplifiers and Hammond B3 organ, suggested I open a "music shop".
I thought that would interesting and have been involved with it for
the past 3 and a half years. * I realized however that I was never
designed or cut out to deal in a retail world, so I have turned the
shop over to a friend who is both a musician and a luthier. * I stay
involved, more as a hobby and place to go, but he now owns and runs
the place. * It too is growing and will be moving to a larger facility
early next year.

That's my story and I am sticking to it.


Excellent, Richard! Hard work, guts and ingenuity.

Thanks for demonstrating how it paid off.

Tim December 13th 12 03:51 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Dec 6, 8:42*am, "Eisboch" wrote:

*Having a little money doesn't
guarantee happiness, but what you *do* with it certainly has it's
rewards that are not necessarily financial in nature.


I haven't always succeeded Richard, but I've made it a point to try
to live up to that standard all my working life.

Not IN money, bu it's paid be back rather soundly too!


ESAD December 14th 12 12:56 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/13/12 7:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Boating All Out December 14th 12 03:06 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





thumper December 14th 12 03:09 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/13/2012 4:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:


Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.


It's amazing how easily some people get insulted. I thought these smart
business leaders were supposed to be tough.


Boating All Out December 14th 12 03:24 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article , lid says...

On 12/13/2012 4:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:


Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.


It's amazing how easily some people get insulted. I thought these smart
business leaders were supposed to be tough.


It's bull**** politics. They WANT to take whatever they can as an
"insult" to get over on the other side.
It's all pussy Fox "News" politics.
A sane person knows what a real insult is.
And real insults are in most cases redressed by an apology.


JustWait[_2_] December 14th 12 03:41 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/13/2012 7:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


Just a quick question... Who the hell does the idiot in Chief think paid
for those frekin' roads?

JustWait[_2_] December 14th 12 03:50 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/13/2012 10:06 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit



If the DNC dopes would stop campaigning and actyally pass a ****ing
budget, or cut some spending not double down on it... maybe we could get
something done...


for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.







BAR[_2_] December 14th 12 12:40 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


The government doesn't build anything, they fund it.

iBoaterer[_2_] December 14th 12 02:01 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article , says...

On 12/13/2012 10:06 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit



If the DNC dopes would stop campaigning and actyally pass a ****ing
budget, or cut some spending not double down on it... maybe we could get
something done...


If the RNC would stop obstructing and actually pass a ****ing budget,
maybe we could get something done.


iBoaterer[_2_] December 14th 12 02:03 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article , says...

On 12/13/2012 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


Just a quick question... Who the hell does the idiot in Chief think paid
for those frekin' roads?


Apples and oranges, FOXite.

GuzzisRule December 14th 12 02:21 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot* (although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam sure! It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.

JustWait[_2_] December 14th 12 02:25 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On 12/14/2012 7:40 AM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


The government doesn't build anything, they fund it.


No, you fund it...

Califbill December 14th 12 09:05 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.


Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.


The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.

Earl[_67_] December 15th 12 02:40 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
ESAD wrote:
On 12/13/12 7:21 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government
builds the infrastructure that makes business possible.


And WHO is the government, in your mind? I realize it's an entity you
don't send tax money to, but is it politicians, or EVERYONE?

iBoaterer[_2_] December 15th 12 02:05 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.


The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.




Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]

GuzzisRule December 15th 12 09:36 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:05:39 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.


The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.




Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]


The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam
sure! It was built by job creators.

Califbill December 15th 12 09:58 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business,
you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government
builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody
should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam
sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.


The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.




Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]


-----------------------

True enough. But the government chose the wrong location and the dam was
built further upstream, and there were enough contracts for water and
electricity that the Fed's did not have to spend the money to build the dam.
Herbert Hoover required the contracts before the Federal Government would
sign off on the project. The location had been studied since about 1900, so
the general location was known. The financing was the problem, and Hoover
told his people to get contracts to cover the money. Seems as if the
Presidents of the USA for the last bunch of years could learn from the
fiscal responsibility of Hoover.


iBoaterer[_2_] December 15th 12 10:31 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business,
you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government
builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody
should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam
sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.


The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.




Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]


-----------------------

True enough. But the government chose the wrong location and the dam was
built further upstream, and there were enough contracts for water and
electricity that the Fed's did not have to spend the money to build the dam.
Herbert Hoover required the contracts before the Federal Government would
sign off on the project. The location had been studied since about 1900, so
the general location was known. The financing was the problem, and Hoover
told his people to get contracts to cover the money. Seems as if the
Presidents of the USA for the last bunch of years could learn from the
fiscal responsibility of Hoover.


But you said it was funded by private entities and that's bull****.

Califbill December 16th 12 12:25 AM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business,
you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government
builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody
should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam
sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.

The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.




Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]


-----------------------

True enough. But the government chose the wrong location and the dam was
built further upstream, and there were enough contracts for water and
electricity that the Fed's did not have to spend the money to build the dam.
Herbert Hoover required the contracts before the Federal Government would
sign off on the project. The location had been studied since about 1900, so
the general location was known. The financing was the problem, and Hoover
told his people to get contracts to cover the money. Seems as if the
Presidents of the USA for the last bunch of years could learn from the
fiscal responsibility of Hoover.


But you said it was funded by private entities and that's bull****.


Where did I say private entities funded the dam? I stated the Federal
Government did not do the funding. Some of the groups were quasi
government, while others were private. Water and electric districts.

iBoaterer[_2_] December 16th 12 02:02 PM

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)
 
In article 1441891429377309526.497170bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article 777884126377209988.909032bmckeenospam-
, says...

GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:06:46 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/12 7:21 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:44:27 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



Yes, and here is his EXACT words:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business,
you
didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

That is still an insult to the people who worked hard and created a
successful business when lesser people failed on that same road.

On the other hand we have a syndicate that built their own road so
they would have a place to start businesses. It is one of the most
successful business corridors in Ft Myers.

(Metro Parkway)


It is not insulting to point out that, typically, the government
builds
the infrastructure that makes business possible.

Depends. I bet Eisboch wasn't insulted. He was - maybe still is - a
genuine "job creator."
The GOP and the dopes here think because you hired people to further
your business and hopefully become wealthy - well, then everybody
should
kiss your ass, and give you personal God-like credit for building the
interstates, the electrical grid, and Hoover dam.
Being successful, wealthy and respected just isn't enough.
They need their asses constantly kissed by their "lessers."
Classic kiss up, kick down.
That's why the dopes here so eagerly kissed Romney's ass.
Thank God the ass-kissers were a minority at the polls.
Wouldn't want a low-life, flip-flopping, vulture money-grubber like
Romney as President of The United States of America, would we?
BTW, the dopes here probably don't know that 77% of "small businesses"
don't even have employees. That's right, a "small business" is most
likely a one-man shop. An eBay seller - or a ****ing lawyer.
The eBay sellers don't benefit from lower high income tax rates.
Most of them don't report income and probably draw food stamps to avoid
starving.
So it's basically rich lawyers the GOP is looking out for.
Maybe K-Street lobbyists and other scammers taking advantage of the tax
code too.
Got nothing to do with "job creators." That's just GOP bull****.
Only rubes buy it.





The companies (not the government) that built Hoover Dam deserve a *lot*
(although not God-like) of
credit for doing so. The government didn't build it, that's for dam
sure!
It was built by job
creators.

Now, quit kissing up to Krause.

The Federal gov did not fund Hoover Dam. They knew it was needed, but
there were electric contracts and water contracts in place that would pay
for dam. Was required before the Fed's signed off.



Even before Congress approved the Boulder Canyon Project, the Bureau of
Reclamation was considering what kind of dam should be used. Officials
eventually decided on a massive concrete arch-gravity dam, the design of
which was overseen by the Bureau's chief design engineer John L. Savage.
The monolithic dam would be thick at the bottom and thin near the top,
and would present a convex face towards the water above the dam. The
curving arch of the dam would transmit the water's force into the
abutments, in this case the rock walls of the canyon. The wedge-shaped
dam would be 660 ft (200 m) thick at the bottom, narrowing to 45 ft (14
m) at the top, leaving room for a highway connecting Nevada and Arizona.
[21]
On January 10, 1931, the Bureau made the bid documents available to
interested parties, at five dollars a copy. The government was to
provide the materials; but the contractor was to prepare the site and
build the dam. The dam was described in minute detail, covering 100
pages of text and 76 drawings. A $2 million bid bond was to accompany
each bid; the winner would have to post a $5 million performance bond.
The contractor had seven years to build the dam, or penalties would
ensue.[22]


-----------------------

True enough. But the government chose the wrong location and the dam was
built further upstream, and there were enough contracts for water and
electricity that the Fed's did not have to spend the money to build the dam.
Herbert Hoover required the contracts before the Federal Government would
sign off on the project. The location had been studied since about 1900, so
the general location was known. The financing was the problem, and Hoover
told his people to get contracts to cover the money. Seems as if the
Presidents of the USA for the last bunch of years could learn from the
fiscal responsibility of Hoover.


But you said it was funded by private entities and that's bull****.


Where did I say private entities funded the dam? I stated the Federal
Government did not do the funding. Some of the groups were quasi
government, while others were private. Water and electric districts.


The government funded it. Others BUILT it.


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