At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

Canuck57 wrote:

On 09/03/2012 11:36 AM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Simple solution: End users can write off the cost of raw materials
against their income for tax purposes.

Speculators are trading in contracts. Contracts are private negotiations
between two parties, Why then should the IRS allow the cost of said
contract (commodities futures, for example) be written off against the
eventual capital gain realized by its sale? With physical goods, it can
be demonstrated that the inputs were necessary to generate the outputs
sold.

I mean, for all I know, the initial payment was for hookers and blow. The
latter sale is 100% profit. The two transactions have nothing to do with
each other and the second should be taxed as pure profit.

Now, if you still want to trade commodities, go for it.

You are clueless, you pay taxes on only the net gains after expenses.

Allowable expenses. Its all subject to legislation and IRS regulations.

Futures markets are necessary, no one is a forced participant. It is a
way for a producer to lock in a profit for their product before they
invest in seed, machinery or whatever. If a commodity has a contract at
say $12 a unit, the producer might have a $9 cost to produce the unit,
if providing a $12 futures contract the $3 profit.

This way if the price drops to $8/unit, the producer can still make a
profit on the commodity option strike price of $12. Essentially
guaranteeing a producer a price. But if the price goes up to $15 then
the producer gets $12 and the contract purchaser makes $3 on each.

Has a place to stabilize prices and reduce risk for producers.

Fine. But the only people who can deduct the price of a future from their
eventual profit should be the ones who consume crude oil as a raw material.

Utilities (power companies) do stuff like this all the time. They'll sign
fixed price contracts for future deliveries, often for terms of 20 or more
years. Then someone takes those contracts and uses them as collateral for a
loan to build new generation. Commoditization of these contracts was rare
until Enron popped up and stuck its nose into the California power market.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
The blinking cursor writes; and having writ, blinks on.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

X ` Man wrote:

On 3/9/12 1:36 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Simple solution: End users can write off the cost of raw materials
against their income for tax purposes.

Speculators are trading in contracts. Contracts are private negotiations
between two parties, Why then should the IRS allow the cost of said
contract (commodities futures, for example) be written off against the
eventual capital gain realized by its sale? With physical goods, it can
be demonstrated that the inputs were necessary to generate the outputs
sold.

I mean, for all I know, the initial payment was for hookers and blow. The
latter sale is 100% profit. The two transactions have nothing to do with
each other and the second should be taxed as pure profit.

Now, if you still want to trade commodities, go for it.



Great name for a public accounting firm:

Hookers&Blow

Those are the lobbyists in Washington DC. Grabbet and Hyde are the
accountants. Boyd, Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, the law firm.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people want either less corruption or more of a chance to
participate in it.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 3/8/12 11:10 PM, Califbill wrote:
"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

Have Oil Speculators Already Priced In War With Iran?
By Matthew Philips on March 07, 2012


The last time the price of Brent crude closed below $100 a barrel was
Oct. 6, 2011. It’s since gone up nearly 30 percent, to a high of $126.20
on March 1. Tensions over Iran’s nuclear program have people spooked
that a potential attack would disrupt the country’s 2.2 million barrels
of daily oil exports. And so money has been pouring into oil futures
contracts, driving up the price without any significant change in the
underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals. Only the threat of one.

So who’s buying?

Talk to oil analysts these days and chances are they’ll tell you that
more than half the spike in the oil price is due to
speculators—specifically noncommercial users. That’s jargon for
investors who are buying up futures contracts not because they intend to
use the oil, but because they think it’s a good investment. These aren’t
airlines or refining companies; these are money managers betting that
the price will go up. And so far they’ve been right, thanks to themselves.

- - -

And we should allow oil speculating assholes to control our economy?


---------------------------------------

Then invest in oil futures and make big bucks.

It's not in the national interest to help drive up the price of oil
products by speculating.
-------------------------

Why not? Southwest Airlines had less than cost jet fuel for at least 3
years as they hedged the costs and bought futures. Most of the rise in cost
in oil is really the falling dollar. Why did we go to war in Iraq when
Kuwait was invaded? Because Sadam H. wanted to make Euro's or a basket of
currencies the petro dollar. Which would have instantly stopped our
printing presses of money. Would have effectively removed the USA Dollar as
the worlds reserve currency. That $50 barrel of oil is now a $100 dollar
barrel because the dollar is worth about 1/2 of what is was when oil was the
$50 price. Your Econ class must have been bonehead Econ.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 19:44:34 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

Most of the rise in cost
in oil is really the falling dollar.

===

Good point.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/9/12 8:00 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 6:41 PM, X ` Man wrote:
Have Oil Speculators Already Priced In War With Iran?
By Matthew Philips on March 07, 2012


The last time the price of Brent crude closed below $100 a barrel was
Oct. 6, 2011. It?s since gone up nearly 30 percent, to a high of $126.20
on March 1. Tensions over Iran?s nuclear program have people spooked
that a potential attack would disrupt the country?s 2.2 million barrels
of daily oil exports. And so money has been pouring into oil futures
contracts, driving up the price without any significant change in the
underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals. Only the threat of one.

So who?s buying?

Talk to oil analysts these days and chances are they?ll tell you that
more than half the spike in the oil price is due to
speculators?specifically noncommercial users. That?s jargon for
investors who are buying up futures contracts not because they intend to
use the oil, but because they think it?s a good investment. These aren?t
airlines or refining companies; these are money managers betting that
the price will go up. And so far they?ve been right, thanks to themselves.

- - -

And we should allow oil speculating assholes to control our economy?

Then do something about it, dammit.

He can't. Very many of those 'speculators' live in Saudi Arabia.


How many, John? And how many are in the United States. Be specific.

It's part of the drill here drill now ignorant crap. What the Fox
lemmings don't understand is that we sit on about 2% of the world's oil.
We use 20%. I'd like them to tell me how that would make us independent
of foreign oil.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:53:55 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/9/12 8:00 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 6:41 PM, X ` Man wrote:
Have Oil Speculators Already Priced In War With Iran?
By Matthew Philips on March 07, 2012


The last time the price of Brent crude closed below $100 a barrel was
Oct. 6, 2011. It?s since gone up nearly 30 percent, to a high of $126.20
on March 1. Tensions over Iran?s nuclear program have people spooked
that a potential attack would disrupt the country?s 2.2 million barrels
of daily oil exports. And so money has been pouring into oil futures
contracts, driving up the price without any significant change in the
underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals. Only the threat of one.

So who?s buying?

Talk to oil analysts these days and chances are they?ll tell you that
more than half the spike in the oil price is due to
speculators?specifically noncommercial users. That?s jargon for
investors who are buying up futures contracts not because they intend to
use the oil, but because they think it?s a good investment. These aren?t
airlines or refining companies; these are money managers betting that
the price will go up. And so far they?ve been right, thanks to themselves.

- - -

And we should allow oil speculating assholes to control our economy?

Then do something about it, dammit.

He can't. Very many of those 'speculators' live in Saudi Arabia.


How many, John? And how many are in the United States. Be specific.

It's part of the drill here drill now ignorant crap. What the Fox
lemmings don't understand is that we sit on about 2% of the world's oil.
We use 20%. I'd like them to tell me how that would make us independent
of foreign oil.

What was ignorant, Kevin. Are you trying to imply that foreign nationals can't be speculators? Do
you think it's only USA Republicans? Get your head out of the dark place.

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:53:55 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/9/12 8:00 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 6:41 PM, X ` Man wrote:
Have Oil Speculators Already Priced In War With Iran?
By Matthew Philips on March 07, 2012


The last time the price of Brent crude closed below $100 a barrel was
Oct. 6, 2011. It?s since gone up nearly 30 percent, to a high of $126.20
on March 1. Tensions over Iran?s nuclear program have people spooked
that a potential attack would disrupt the country?s 2.2 million barrels
of daily oil exports. And so money has been pouring into oil futures
contracts, driving up the price without any significant change in the
underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals. Only the threat of one.

So who?s buying?

Talk to oil analysts these days and chances are they?ll tell you that
more than half the spike in the oil price is due to
speculators?specifically noncommercial users. That?s jargon for
investors who are buying up futures contracts not because they intend to
use the oil, but because they think it?s a good investment. These aren?t
airlines or refining companies; these are money managers betting that
the price will go up. And so far they?ve been right, thanks to themselves.

- - -

And we should allow oil speculating assholes to control our economy?

Then do something about it, dammit.

He can't. Very many of those 'speculators' live in Saudi Arabia.


How many, John? And how many are in the United States. Be specific.

It's part of the drill here drill now ignorant crap. What the Fox
lemmings don't understand is that we sit on about 2% of the world's oil.
We use 20%. I'd like them to tell me how that would make us independent
of foreign oil.

What was ignorant, Kevin. Are you trying to imply that foreign nationals can't be speculators? Do
you think it's only USA Republicans? Get your head out of the dark place.

Anybody want to call John or his wife and tell them that I'm not Kevin?
I've got house number, cell, address, and MUCH more!

At least half the jump in oil prices due to non-user speculators
 

On 3/11/2012 1:11 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:53:55 -0500, wrote:

In articlehbWdnZdaMZ06OsfSnZ2dnUVZ_v8AAAAA@earthlink .com, dump-on-
says...

On 3/9/12 8:00 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 6:41 PM, X ` Man wrote:
Have Oil Speculators Already Priced In War With Iran?
By Matthew Philips on March 07, 2012


The last time the price of Brent crude closed below $100 a barrel was
Oct. 6, 2011. It?s since gone up nearly 30 percent, to a high of $126.20
on March 1. Tensions over Iran?s nuclear program have people spooked
that a potential attack would disrupt the country?s 2.2 million barrels
of daily oil exports. And so money has been pouring into oil futures
contracts, driving up the price without any significant change in the
underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals. Only the threat of one.

So who?s buying?

Talk to oil analysts these days and chances are they?ll tell you that
more than half the spike in the oil price is due to
speculators?specifically noncommercial users. That?s jargon for
investors who are buying up futures contracts not because they intend to
use the oil, but because they think it?s a good investment. These aren?t
airlines or refining companies; these are money managers betting that
the price will go up. And so far they?ve been right, thanks to themselves.

- - -

And we should allow oil speculating assholes to control our economy?

Then do something about it, dammit.

He can't. Very many of those 'speculators' live in Saudi Arabia.


How many, John? And how many are in the United States. Be specific.

It's part of the drill here drill now ignorant crap. What the Fox
lemmings don't understand is that we sit on about 2% of the world's oil.
We use 20%. I'd like them to tell me how that would make us independent
of foreign oil.

What was ignorant, Kevin. Are you trying to imply that foreign nationals can't be speculators? Do
you think it's only USA Republicans? Get your head out of the dark place.

Anybody want to call John or his wife and tell them that I'm not Kevin?
I've got house number, cell, address, and MUCH more!

You could do it if you weren't a pussy.

--
https://www.mittromney.com/donate/fi...FYwj7AoddxdaaA