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cruise ship grounding
I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:
I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. My sister-in-law was on a 'Scrapping Cruise' on this ship last year. She said it was horrible - poor service, dirty, generally run down. She was somewhat shocked to see the same ship in the news. |
cruise ship grounding
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy John
wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, Canuck57 wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. My sister-in-law was on a 'Scrapping Cruise' on this ship last year. She said it was horrible - poor service, dirty, generally run down. She was somewhat shocked to see the same ship in the news. === What is a "scrapping" cruise? I thought the boat was relatively new. |
cruise ship grounding
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy John
wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, Canuck57 wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Good discussion, charts and AIS track: http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/74284/Costa-Concordia-accident-navigational-error/ |
cruise ship grounding
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy John
wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, Canuck57 wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/16/12 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They didn't know they were close to shore? Really? There was no "lookout"? And why wasn't there a battery run GPS on the bridge, to back up the one that takes a half hour to restart? |
cruise ship grounding
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:44:30 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy John wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, Canuck57 wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. My sister-in-law was on a 'Scrapping Cruise' on this ship last year. She said it was horrible - poor service, dirty, generally run down. She was somewhat shocked to see the same ship in the news. === What is a "scrapping" cruise? I thought the boat was relatively new. A scrapping cruise is when a bunch of women who are 'scrappers', i.e. makers of scrapbooks, get together and work on scrapbooks while on a ship. My wife goes to Bethany Beach every spring for a scrapping get-together. The ship entered service in July, 2006, so she was pretty new. |
cruise ship grounding
In article om,
says... On 1/16/2012 6:34 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In articlen_GdnfbyRtBXLInSnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink .com, dump-on- says... On 1/16/12 6:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:20:54 -0500, X ` Man wrote: It's hard to believe a ship of that size didn't have a forward lookout when heading towards a port, but I guess anything is possible. === If the translated story is to be believed, they experienced a power failure while still in deep water. The power failure led to lack of situational awareness on the bridge, and they inadvertantly altered course to the right which took them on to a reef. With a 30+ foot draft it is unlikely that a forward lookout would have seen a reef in time unless it was marked with a navaid. Supposedly, or so the story goes, where they ended up was some distance from the reef that holed the ship. I dunno, Wayne. It seems to be that a "lack of situational awareness on the bridge" is exactly the sort of circumstance that would cause a competent crew to "double up on the watch" as the first order of business. Lack of situational awareness means unaware of the situation. If you're unaware, you do nothing out of the ordinary. And of course if you are aware of the situation, you take the actions to address it properly. The captain's decision to lead the march to the lifeboats was nothing short of brilliant. That act of bravery will not soon be forgotten. It appears that the captain was three sheets to the wind and got off the ship as fast as possible in order to sober up. Now he will be called incompetent instead of a drunkard and incompetent. The captain was all about preserving what was left of his reputation rather than caring for the souls on board. Does Italy have a death penalty? |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/16/12 7:43 PM, BAR wrote:
In raweb.com, says... On 1/16/2012 6:34 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In articlen_GdnfbyRtBXLInSnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink .com, dump-on- says... On 1/16/12 6:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:20:54 -0500, X ` Man wrote: It's hard to believe a ship of that size didn't have a forward lookout when heading towards a port, but I guess anything is possible. === If the translated story is to be believed, they experienced a power failure while still in deep water. The power failure led to lack of situational awareness on the bridge, and they inadvertantly altered course to the right which took them on to a reef. With a 30+ foot draft it is unlikely that a forward lookout would have seen a reef in time unless it was marked with a navaid. Supposedly, or so the story goes, where they ended up was some distance from the reef that holed the ship. I dunno, Wayne. It seems to be that a "lack of situational awareness on the bridge" is exactly the sort of circumstance that would cause a competent crew to "double up on the watch" as the first order of business. Lack of situational awareness means unaware of the situation. If you're unaware, you do nothing out of the ordinary. And of course if you are aware of the situation, you take the actions to address it pr Italy operly. The captain's decision to lead the march to the lifeboats was nothing short of brilliant. That act of bravery will not soon be forgotten. It appears that the captain was three sheets to the wind and got off the ship as fast as possible in order to sober up. Now he will be called incompetent instead of a drunkard and incompetent. The captain was all about preserving what was left of his reputation rather than caring for the souls on board. Does Italy have a death penalty? Italy abolished the death penalty nationwide in the 1880's. Mussolini reestablished it in the 1920's (what a surprise) and then Italy officially outlawed it again in 1948. |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 7:50 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. My sister-in-law was on a 'Scrapping Cruise' on this ship last year. She said it was horrible - poor service, dirty, generally run down. She was somewhat shocked to see the same ship in the news. The ship is less than 6 years on the water. Guess it is poorly run. -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 11:20 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Good discussion, charts and AIS track: http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/74284/Costa-Concordia-accident-navigational-error/ Holy cow, they are saying that the draft is 8 meters, but as it's underway at 15 knots there is a "squat" of 3 meters and that not many captains factor this in!! Just makes the captain more culpable. An on line chart I looked at clearly shows 0 to 20 meters in that area, be the draft 8, 11 or 15m, clearly not wise to cruise in there. Being modern, would it not have depth, position alarms? -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 4:24 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/16/12 6:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:20:54 -0500, X ` Man wrote: It's hard to believe a ship of that size didn't have a forward lookout when heading towards a port, but I guess anything is possible. === If the translated story is to be believed, they experienced a power failure while still in deep water. The power failure led to lack of situational awareness on the bridge, and they inadvertantly altered course to the right which took them on to a reef. With a 30+ foot draft it is unlikely that a forward lookout would have seen a reef in time unless it was marked with a navaid. Supposedly, or so the story goes, where they ended up was some distance from the reef that holed the ship. I dunno, Wayne. It seems to be that a "lack of situational awareness on the bridge" is exactly the sort of circumstance that would cause a competent crew to "double up on the watch" as the first order of business. We don't agree often, but we agree on this. And if such awareness was there, where was the call for a tow? And doesn't jive with the physical evidence. The hole in the hull to me indicates the ship was under forward power and possibly in a turn. Confirmed or not, one report has the captain seen by coast guard rescue while people sere still left on board. The ship has a black box and t has been retrieved. Many truths it hopefully has. -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 4:34 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/16/12 6:32 PM, Happy John wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:24:58 -0500, X ` wrote: On 1/16/12 6:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:20:54 -0500, X ` Man wrote: It's hard to believe a ship of that size didn't have a forward lookout when heading towards a port, but I guess anything is possible. === If the translated story is to be believed, they experienced a power failure while still in deep water. The power failure led to lack of situational awareness on the bridge, and they inadvertantly altered course to the right which took them on to a reef. With a 30+ foot draft it is unlikely that a forward lookout would have seen a reef in time unless it was marked with a navaid. Supposedly, or so the story goes, where they ended up was some distance from the reef that holed the ship. I dunno, Wayne. It seems to be that a "lack of situational awareness on the bridge" is exactly the sort of circumstance that would cause a competent crew to "double up on the watch" as the first order of business. Although far from being an expert, I would say the competency of the crew was the problem in the first place. Undertrained and undermotivated, I think. Or goofing off, pumping the poodle as it was Friday at 9:30pm local time. Probably dark. http://blog.geogarage.com/2012/01/co...p-captain.html Claims the rock wasn't on the the charts....is he in deep. -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 4:49 PM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/16/2012 6:34 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In articlen_GdnfbyRtBXLInSnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink .com, dump-on- says... On 1/16/12 6:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:20:54 -0500, X ` Man wrote: It's hard to believe a ship of that size didn't have a forward lookout when heading towards a port, but I guess anything is possible. === If the translated story is to be believed, they experienced a power failure while still in deep water. The power failure led to lack of situational awareness on the bridge, and they inadvertantly altered course to the right which took them on to a reef. With a 30+ foot draft it is unlikely that a forward lookout would have seen a reef in time unless it was marked with a navaid. Supposedly, or so the story goes, where they ended up was some distance from the reef that holed the ship. I dunno, Wayne. It seems to be that a "lack of situational awareness on the bridge" is exactly the sort of circumstance that would cause a competent crew to "double up on the watch" as the first order of business. Lack of situational awareness means unaware of the situation. If you're unaware, you do nothing out of the ordinary. And of course if you are aware of the situation, you take the actions to address it properly. The captain's decision to lead the march to the lifeboats was nothing short of brilliant. That act of bravery will not soon be forgotten. First officer has been arrested too. This story has a facebook entry mentioned that indicates people knew he was traveling close. So it wasn't unintentional. http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16149739 This story is good at it has details and time. http://www.canada.com/news/world/Shi...932/story.html Captain did leave the ship before women and children.... And didn't call mayday for an hour. In fact, coast guard found out from passengers calling ashore. I would hate to be him. 15 still missing, 3 days later, 5 dead, shaping up to be 20 dead. Wonder what 20 manslaughter and leaving the ship as Capitan before duties are complete catches him? -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 16/01/2012 5:04 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:46 am, wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like the 100 yr. anniversary replay of the Titanic disaster cam a few months early. Fortunately a lot closer to local fellow boaters and rescue boats, and the water isn't as cold. -- No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality, reality always wins in the end. |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? |
cruise ship grounding
On Jan 17, 9:48*am, Oscar
wrote: On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote: On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? I wonder how theyre gonna break it loose and get it upright... Or if they''ll scrap it on the spot? |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/17/2012 6:59 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:48 am, Oscar wrote: On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote: On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? I wonder how theyre gonna break it loose and get it upright... Or if they''ll scrap it on the spot? I don't think they can move it without cutting it up... |
cruise ship grounding
In article 87285d1e-e75b-4bc3-ac09-57777ddf5250
@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says... On Jan 17, 9:48*am, Oscar wrote: On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote: On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? I wonder how theyre gonna break it loose and get it upright... Or if they''ll scrap it on the spot? http://tinyurl.com/85flbvp |
cruise ship grounding
On 1/18/12 1:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:59:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Jan 17, 9:48 am, Oscar wrote: On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote: On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? I wonder how theyre gonna break it loose and get it upright... Or if they''ll scrap it on the spot? I have heard on the news that the owner wants to fix it on site, float it and try to get it on line again. Whether they can do that is questionable but I am guessing the Greeks have dry dock facilities to work on it if they can plug the holes and get it floating again. I have heard comparisons to the Cole but the Cole is a far smaller ship with a lot better water tight compartmentalization and a better trained crew. I'd guess the salvors are going to come up with an astronomical number for refloating and that, added to the cost of repairs, will exceed the insured value of the ship. Next step, the salvor's chains to cut the ship apart and sell it for scrap. |
cruise ship grounding
On Jan 18, 2:39*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote: On 1/18/12 1:16 PM, wrote: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:59:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Jan 17, 9:48 am, Oscar *wrote: On 1/16/2012 10:12 PM, JustWait wrote: On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, *wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------ Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time... and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............. And the pictures tell the rest...... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------ There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... Has Sea Tow claimed salvage rights to the ship yet? I wonder how theyre gonna break it loose and get it upright... Or if they''ll scrap it on the spot? I have heard on the news that the owner wants to fix it on site, float it and try to get it on line again. Whether they can do that is questionable but I am guessing the Greeks have dry dock facilities to work on it if they can plug the holes and get it floating again. I have heard comparisons to the Cole but the Cole is a far smaller ship with a lot better water tight compartmentalization and a better trained crew. I'd guess the salvors are going to come up with an astronomical number for refloating and that, added to the cost of repairs, will exceed the insured value of the ship. Next step, the salvor's chains to cut the ship apart and sell it for scrap.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good luck to them.... that old freighter that grounded off our northern coast in September is going nowhere fast. Here's an old photo/story http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...fisherman.html |
cruise ship grounding
On Jan 16, 9:12*pm, JustWait wrote:
On 1/16/2012 12:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:50:07 -0500, Happy wrote: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:51:44 -0700, *wrote: I would say the whole bridge crew better have some good answers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ip-sunday.html If I was the owner, I would suspend everyone until I got solid answers. * Then fire everyone involved in the bad decisions. But Italians look like they wasted no time in arrest. === Here's another report, translated from Italian, that seems to have a ring of truth to it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best as I can tell, the ship was underway at full speed and had a loss of all AC power, and then restored it. The reboot process took time.. and in the process, the bridge got distracted by the lights and shore and failed to realize that the ship was coming closer to shore... (The rudder does not lock upon a power failure, but the auto pilot disengages, and rudder control is returned to the helm. If the helm control was not on zero rudder, the ship's course would change, my guess slowly....) While the bridge tries to get unconfused, (the Captain is at dinner and is kept updated by short reports, but fails to realize the commotion and confusion on the bridge) the reboot continued and the position on the eChart showed them where they were based, but NOT on GPS, but on the last datapoint stored in the system, updated for last known course and speed.... (read a DR update...) The reboot process takes more than 15 minutes, and the GPS update takes at least ANOTHER 15 minutes, longer if the delta between the current and expected position is large. While all this is going on, they hit their first rock and that prompted the first report that said that they had hit uncharted rocks... Then, they realized that they were some miles off course, closer to land, trying to pass between a gap/channel *that no sane ship driver would try...... Hit more rocks, flooding, turned to shore to ground her, hit more rocks, and started to heel over... Now, the abandon ship process became much more complicated............ And the pictures tell the rest...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are reports coming out now that they were close to shore to salute a friend on shore, showing off as it were... This is gonna' be bad for the cowardly captain and his crew... http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...ttino-lifeboat But the captain's not guilty, especially of cowardice. just ask him... "The passengers were pouring on to the decks, taking the lifeboats by assault," the newspaper quoted him as telling a judge during a hearing to determine whether he should be held in custody on charges of manslaughter and abandoning ship. "I didn't even have a life jacket because I had given it to one of the passengers. I was trying to get people to get into the boats in an orderly fashion. Suddenly, since the ship was at a 60 to 70 degree angle, I tripped and I ended up in one of the boats. That's how I found myself in the lifeboat," said Schettino. "Suspended there, I was unable to lower the boat into the sea, because the space was blocked by other boats in the water." Told ya.... |
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