I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...arine-engines/

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:
http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...arine-engines/

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage. But you have no liberty, you will buy what the government
tells you to buy.

Hazards of big fat interfering government.

No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality,
reality always wins in the end.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On Jan 1, 10:22*pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. *Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:22:17 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:
http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...arine-engines/

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage. But you have no liberty, you will buy what the government
tells you to buy.

Hazards of big fat interfering government.

No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality,
reality always wins in the end.

Give us a break for a year. We *know* what we have for government!

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.
--
No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality,
reality always wins in the end.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/2012 1:12 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...


Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.








Just a guess would suggest that the small engine and low horsepower
doesn't allow for a lot of adjustment aside from being set for "normal"
air pressure and O2 concentration so it can't adjust far enough to
achieve "optimum" fuel to horsepower ratios. A rich mixture, like a lean
mixture, will not burn as efficiently...

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/12 8:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:12:47 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.






You are correct! Between the O2 sensor and the Mass Flow Sensor, less
fuel will be fed to the engine to maintain the correct stochiometric
mixture. Summer and high altitude contribute to better fuel mileage,
though not necessarily maximum horsepower.


I am correct? Scary. :)

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/2012 8:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:12:47 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...

Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.






You are correct! Between the O2 sensor and the Mass Flow Sensor, less
fuel will be fed to the engine to maintain the correct stochiometric
mixture. Summer and high altitude contribute to better fuel mileage,
though not necessarily maximum horsepower.

The O2 sensor is a "differentiator", which is to say it develops an
electrical charge based on the "difference" between external and
internal oxygen levels... Like I said before on such small engines there
isn't a lot of room for adjustment by the computer anyway, not to
mention the computer may not really have the capability to fully come to
a "zero or null base" to work it's calculations off of because of the
contradictory information coming from the MAP (manifold pressure)
sensor, and the O2... Just sayin'...

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/2012 9:30 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/2/2012 8:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:12:47 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...


Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and
does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.






You are correct! Between the O2 sensor and the Mass Flow Sensor, less
fuel will be fed to the engine to maintain the correct stochiometric
mixture. Summer and high altitude contribute to better fuel mileage,
though not necessarily maximum horsepower.

The O2 sensor is a "differentiator", which is to say it develops an
electrical charge based on the "difference" between external and
internal oxygen levels... Like I said before on such small engines there
isn't a lot of room for adjustment by the computer anyway, not to
mention the computer may not really have the capability to fully come to
a "zero or null base" to work it's calculations off of because of the
contradictory information coming from the MAP (manifold pressure)
sensor, and the O2... Just sayin'...

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

So, what does that have to do with the above post. In theory you could
make your car run better at higher altitude (or even after a storm front
came in, etc) by turning the car off once you reached high altitude, and
restart it to allow the car to "Zero" the O2, Manifold Absolute
Pressure, Ambient Baro Pressure, and the IAC valve to the ambient
conditions...

Ok, that's my nice post for today;)

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:44:55 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:46:40 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

The idle control solenoid on a Mercury EFI 60 is just on or off. It
crosses to a Cummins diesel part if you look hard enough. It just
pulses the solenoid at idle.
That is the "paka paka" sound you hear when a Mercury is at idle. The
throttle body seems to be completely closed. I wore two of them out in
3000 hours of running, with a lot of that going slow. (manatees). I
took both of them apart and there was nothing unusual looking in
there, just wear between the plunger and the coil housing. I assume it
cocks and binds. A little squirt of oil made it better for a while but
you really need a new one to make it right. ($50 or so). The first
time it took me a while to figure it out, (pull the hose off and pinch
it down, the motor idles), the second time I just knew what it was,
the paka paka sound wasn't right and I just ordered a new one, changed
it on the lift.

I think my Yamaha works the same way but I have not really looked into
it. If anything I would like to see it idle down a little faster tho

Well, gosh. I don't hear any of those sounds. In fact, I have to ask my wife if the damn Yamaha is
running when I start it. I don't usually wear the hearing aids while boating.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/3/12 9:21 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:44:55 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:46:40 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

The idle control solenoid on a Mercury EFI 60 is just on or off. It
crosses to a Cummins diesel part if you look hard enough. It just
pulses the solenoid at idle.
That is the "paka paka" sound you hear when a Mercury is at idle. The
throttle body seems to be completely closed. I wore two of them out in
3000 hours of running, with a lot of that going slow. (manatees). I
took both of them apart and there was nothing unusual looking in
there, just wear between the plunger and the coil housing. I assume it
cocks and binds. A little squirt of oil made it better for a while but
you really need a new one to make it right. ($50 or so). The first
time it took me a while to figure it out, (pull the hose off and pinch
it down, the motor idles), the second time I just knew what it was,
the paka paka sound wasn't right and I just ordered a new one, changed
it on the lift.

I think my Yamaha works the same way but I have not really looked into
it. If anything I would like to see it idle down a little faster tho

Well, gosh. I don't hear any of those sounds. In fact, I have to ask my wife if the damn Yamaha is
running when I start it. I don't usually wear the hearing aids while boating.


It's not your bad hearing. My hearing is pretty good. I couldn't tell
when my Yamaha 150 was running at idle, either. If I buy another
outboard rig, it'll have a four-stroke Yamaha on it.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/2/2012 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:46:40 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

The idle control solenoid on a Mercury EFI 60 is just on or off. It
crosses to a Cummins diesel part if you look hard enough. It just
pulses the solenoid at idle.

Are you sure there it's just open and closed, and no adjustment in
between?? That doesn't make sense, is there only two loads given to the
engine at idle? Is the ambient air pressure always the same? Air and
internal water temps, etc... Just doesn't make sense. Why have a piston
and seat if that's the case???


That is the "paka paka" sound you hear when a Mercury is at idle. The
throttle body seems to be completely closed. I wore two of them out in
3000 hours of running, with a lot of that going slow. (manatees). I
took both of them apart and there was nothing unusual looking in
there, just wear between the plunger and the coil housing. I assume it
cocks and binds. A little squirt of oil made it better for a while but
you really need a new one to make it right. ($50 or so). The first
time it took me a while to figure it out, (pull the hose off and pinch
it down, the motor idles), the second time I just knew what it was,
the paka paka sound wasn't right and I just ordered a new one, changed
it on the lift.

I think my Yamaha works the same way but I have not really looked into
it. If anything I would like to see it idle down a little faster tho

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/3/2012 3:29 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:29:26 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 1/2/2012 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:46:40 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

The idle control solenoid on a Mercury EFI 60 is just on or off. It
crosses to a Cummins diesel part if you look hard enough. It just
pulses the solenoid at idle.

Are you sure there it's just open and closed, and no adjustment in
between?? That doesn't make sense, is there only two loads given to the
engine at idle? Is the ambient air pressure always the same? Air and
internal water temps, etc... Just doesn't make sense. Why have a piston
and seat if that's the case???

Yes, I am sure there is only two states, open and closed and the shot
that picks it is 12vdc (looked at on a scope)

So, you are saying you saw a 0-12 volt square wave on/off on the scope,
coming off the computer?

They just use pulse width modulation to control the air flow
The first time I had a bad one I spent quite a while in the driveway
proving to myself that I would actually fix something when I replaced
it. I could actually get a decent idle pinching the (disconnected)
hose down with miniature vice grips adjusting the gap with the bolt in
the handle. It just did not have the "dash pot" function.

Again that just doesn't suggest an off/on, it more suggests that the
opening is variable beyond on and off... I know the computers back in
the 80's went from ten dumps a second to hundreds, if that solenoid was
slamming open and shut hundreds of times a second, I can see where there
would be lot's of problems...
I took the valve apart and when I couldn't really find anything wrong
I decided it must just be binding and I put some light machine oil on
the piston and it worked a little better.so I ran it a week or so like
that, waiting for the part.


Like I said, the next time it started getting cranky, I just ordered
the solenoid and threw it in.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:17:13 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:21:21 -0500, Happy John
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:44:55 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:46:40 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

There is a moment in time when you first go to start your engine called
"key on, engine off" when the computer gets it's charge and looks at all
the sensors for their 0 (zero or null) reading. The IAC (idle air
control) for example is a small piston in the side of the intake which
bypasses the throttle body and makes micro adjustments to the air flow
to the intake while the gas pedal is off, and the throttle body is
closed. This is necessary with injected cars to allow for changes in
load from other equipment on the car, etc... The IAC has a capacity for
movement and that distance (the throw of the piston) is segmented into
256 units. When the vehicle enters that KOEO moment, the IAC closes all
the way and the computer notes where it bottomed out in along it's range
of motion of that 256. Let's say the piston bottoms out at positition 7,
the computer uses that setting as "zero" in it's calculations for the
remainder of the engine run... If there is **** and carbon in the IAC
for instance and it can't really zero out, the car will idle ****ty...

The idle control solenoid on a Mercury EFI 60 is just on or off. It
crosses to a Cummins diesel part if you look hard enough. It just
pulses the solenoid at idle.
That is the "paka paka" sound you hear when a Mercury is at idle. The
throttle body seems to be completely closed. I wore two of them out in
3000 hours of running, with a lot of that going slow. (manatees). I
took both of them apart and there was nothing unusual looking in
there, just wear between the plunger and the coil housing. I assume it
cocks and binds. A little squirt of oil made it better for a while but
you really need a new one to make it right. ($50 or so). The first
time it took me a while to figure it out, (pull the hose off and pinch
it down, the motor idles), the second time I just knew what it was,
the paka paka sound wasn't right and I just ordered a new one, changed
it on the lift.

I think my Yamaha works the same way but I have not really looked into
it. If anything I would like to see it idle down a little faster tho

Well, gosh. I don't hear any of those sounds. In fact, I have to ask my wife if the damn Yamaha is
running when I start it. I don't usually wear the hearing aids while boating.

I don't hear the Yamaha running either. The paka thing was with the
Mercury. It was the loudest thing on the Merc.

Good. If you and Harry can't hear it either, then maybe I'm not totally deaf after all.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On Jan 3, 3:59*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:26:01 -0500, Happy John
wrote:

Well, gosh. I don't hear any of those sounds. In fact, I have to ask my wife if the damn Yamaha is
running when I start it. I don't usually wear the hearing aids while boating.

I don't hear the Yamaha running either. The paka thing was with the
Mercury. It was the loudest thing on the Merc.

Good. If you and Harry can't hear it either, then maybe I'm not totally deaf after all.

I was very impressed with how quiet the F70 Yamaha is. You should hear
it peeing tho. ;-)
At 4500 RPM it is just a loud hum.

The Mercury was pretty quiet too but you got a lot of lower unit gear
noise out of the "big foot". That was the loudest sound. On a 2 stroke
you don't hear it *that much but I still remembered the sound so I was
not concerned. My neighbor has a big foot 50 that sounds exactly the
same.

My mercruisers definitely talk to ya.especially the 4 cyl.

?;^ )

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/3/2012 5:49 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:59 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:26:01 -0500, Happy
wrote:

Well, gosh. I don't hear any of those sounds. In fact, I have to ask my wife if the damn Yamaha is
running when I start it. I don't usually wear the hearing aids while boating.

I don't hear the Yamaha running either. The paka thing was with the
Mercury. It was the loudest thing on the Merc.

Good. If you and Harry can't hear it either, then maybe I'm not totally deaf after all.

I was very impressed with how quiet the F70 Yamaha is. You should hear
it peeing tho. ;-)
At 4500 RPM it is just a loud hum.

The Mercury was pretty quiet too but you got a lot of lower unit gear
noise out of the "big foot". That was the loudest sound. On a 2 stroke
you don't hear it that much but I still remembered the sound so I was
not concerned. My neighbor has a big foot 50 that sounds exactly the
same.

My mercruisers definitely talk to ya.especially the 4 cyl.

?;^ )

As long as you don't start talkin' back...

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 02/01/2012 11:12 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...


Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.

Let us go to the extreme to see if you get the point. Lets put a
reciprocating engine without an oxygen supply 1/2 way between here and
the moon.

Does it run? If not, why not? No gases to expand and push? No oxygen?
Bingo.

Generally, the higher the altitude the less fuel effluence the
reciprocating engines become.

--
No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality,
reality always wins in the end.

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 1/3/2012 10:09 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/01/2012 11:12 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...



Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.

The O2 sensor does not "detect exhaust gasses getting richer", it simply
notices changes in O2 levels as compared to the outside concentration...
So, you are close, but there is a slight difference. The O2 sensor
doesn't sense anything but o2...

Let us go to the extreme to see if you get the point. Lets put a
reciprocating engine without an oxygen supply 1/2 way between here and
the moon.

Does it run? If not, why not? No gases to expand and push? No oxygen?
Bingo.

Generally, the higher the altitude the less fuel effluence the
reciprocating engines become.


Not to mention, the less ambient o2 available to the outside of the
sensor, the less it can sense changes in the exhause o2 levels... That
whole zero thing again...

I still don't want the stuff in my boat tanks
 

On 03/01/2012 8:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/3/2012 10:09 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/01/2012 11:12 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/2/12 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0700,
wrote:

On 01/01/2012 9:38 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 1, 10:22 pm, wrote:
On 01/01/2012 8:26 PM, Tim wrote:

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news/...nt-of-energy-e...




Yeah the article is 3 mo. old but it looks like the E15 is wrecking
havoc on even some 4-stroke marine engines.

I shudder the thought of what it would do to my chainsaws too.

Could have told you that 10 years ago. Real gas burns better and
does
less damage.

Oh I knew about it 10 years ago, but some people here might not see a
problem with it.

It's not good stuff especially for carburetor type engines.

While I think fuel injected engines handle it better, they too suffer.
I am in a high altitude area, and fuel millage is up but it should be
down. I suspect it is because we get the 100% gasoline.

But I am sure some congress people invested in ethanol.

Why would fuel mileage be down at a high altitude?


Just the opposite, no? Doesn't the 02 sensor detect exhaust gasses
getting richer as the oxygen in the air thins out, and therefore the
system drops back on the amount of gasoline burned so as to maintain the
proper mixture? If there is less oxygen and you burn less fuel, you get
less power but more miles per gallon? Alas, I am a mere English major,
so I doubt my "understanding" of the physics is correct.

The O2 sensor does not "detect exhaust gasses getting richer", it simply
notices changes in O2 levels as compared to the outside concentration...
So, you are close, but there is a slight difference. The O2 sensor
doesn't sense anything but o2...

Let us go to the extreme to see if you get the point. Lets put a
reciprocating engine without an oxygen supply 1/2 way between here and
the moon.

Does it run? If not, why not? No gases to expand and push? No oxygen?
Bingo.

Generally, the higher the altitude the less fuel effluence the
reciprocating engines become.


Not to mention, the less ambient o2 available to the outside of the
sensor, the less it can sense changes in the exhause o2 levels... That
whole zero thing again...

Yep, less O and less C == less power. Less power.

When I drove a lot, I use to notice it as if running along a coast, hit
a 5% grade no big, I wouldn't even switch a gear. But up a hill in BC,
better be gearing for higher RPMs or you will burn the valves from lugging.

--
No mater how liberally you try to ignore rationality and reality,
reality always wins in the end.