My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Hi does anyone have problems with alternator belts breaking 2 or 3 times a
yr. about 100 hrs./yr. Looks to me the cause is rust on the pulleys grinding
down the belts and leaving a nasty rubber powder behind, I always keep a
spare on board never had to change out of port,(almost the last time out but
I thought my partner lost the anchor and I was close to port.) never had to
get towed yet thanks goodness. The pulleys look to be running true. I think
it is when I start it the first time for the day I have to pump the carb.
alittle, (throttle) and leave it open some and the jump in rpm's and first
rust of the day pops it off. What do u think? Thank u all, Need Help in
Jersey.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

P.S. it is a 1993, 351, OMC King Cobra.

"Wildest Dream" wrote in message
. net...
Hi does anyone have problems with alternator belts breaking 2 or 3 times a
yr. about 100 hrs./yr. Looks to me the cause is rust on the pulleys
grinding
down the belts and leaving a nasty rubber powder behind, I always keep a
spare on board never had to change out of port,(almost the last time out
but
I thought my partner lost the anchor and I was close to port.) never had
to
get towed yet thanks goodness. The pulleys look to be running true. I
think
it is when I start it the first time for the day I have to pump the carb.
alittle, (throttle) and leave it open some and the jump in rpm's and first
rust of the day pops it off. What do u think? Thank u all, Need Help in
Jersey.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

How's the tension. Properly adjusted?

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Belt breaking is usually caused by misaligned pulleys or structurally weak
mountings that allow vibration. Both usually indicate a missing/bent/wrong type
bracket. If the pulleys have taken a bad set and worn side to side the belt can
be bottoming in the groove. That will cause them to wear out prematurely
because they slip.
First use a straight edge across the front edge to see if the pulleys look
right. Look for wear in the sides of the grooves. Then take a good listen at
idle speed with a new belt properly tensioned. Do you hear it popping and
scrubbing. Is there any strange resonance or vibration at various RPMs? Is it
running true, not wobbling ? I bet by then you will have seen the problem. The
toughest thing to find is a missing bracket since you may not be able to look
at one that is set up properly. Marine setups are sometimes cludged together
and they may have removed a bracket you would have in a car, to make room for
something else.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How's the tension. Properly adjusted?

It is the pulley's. My 351 was also going through belts. The 351 is a
marine engine from Ford and Red Line Marine in Lewiston, ID is a parts
distributor. The pulleys are only one the marine engine. Red Line ships,
the pulleys are not cheap. Pull the pulley's and check the numbers on them.
They are stamped in to the metal.
Bill

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

How's the tension. Properly adjusted?


It is the pulley's. My 351 was also going through belts. The 351 is a
marine engine from Ford and Red Line Marine in Lewiston, ID is a parts
distributor. The pulleys are only one the marine engine. Red Line ships,
the pulleys are not cheap. Pull the pulley's and check the numbers on them.
They are stamped in to the metal.
Bill



All the above, but also be aware the harmonic balancer (crankshaft
pulley) can move out of alignment on it's rubber bush as they get older.

Particularly so if you accelerate the engine hard with no load, as you
describe.

Also just confirm all the pulleys are the same profile (usually "A").

Marine belts on "normal" pulleys seem to last OK if properly aligned &
tensioned, so the slight surface rust you describe is not unique to your
boat.

K


This is an example of liar Harry's MO, he pretends he has actual
experience than he can say whatever, he invents his jetski so he can
spread his lies & hate in the jetski NGs, till they told him to sod off.

As far as your other complaints, well, almost every president in my memory,
and I *remember* Truman, Eisenhower (who cheated on his wife), Kennedy,
Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush, lied and participated in
deceit to one degree or another, and on issues far more important than who
was giving them blow jobs.

Good lord. I met *every* president in the damned group except Bush, and I
worked once for his father.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

K Smith wrote:


This is an example of liar Harry's MO, he pretends he has actual
experience than he can say whatever, he invents his jetski so he can
spread his lies & hate in the jetski NGs, till they told him to sod off.

As far as your other complaints, well, almost every president in my memory,
and I *remember* Truman, Eisenhower (who cheated on his wife), Kennedy,
Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush, lied and participated in
deceit to one degree or another, and on issues far more important than who
was giving them blow jobs.

Good lord. I met *every* president in the damned group except Bush, and I
worked once for his father.



So tell us, Karen of Oz, did you go to school to learn how to be an
idiot, or did it come naturally to you?

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

First use a straight edge across the front edge to see if the
pulleys look
right.

Won't work if the outside edges are different castings or pressings.
Better is to drop a dowel with a diameter of the belt width so it
doesn't touch the bottom of the groove. The dowel can be just barely
the length of a suspended leg of the belt so it's easy to get in
there. Take a look at how the dowel rests in the groove, using ink to
help if it's tough to get a lotta light and a dental mirror in there.
Do it at several positions of the pulleys. If it's not right on the
money you've got a problem.

What confuses me is I can't locate a carbon fiber/kevlar(?) toothed
belt (they run cooler) for my motor. It's a very short belt, from a 4"
to a 2.2" pulley. The ones I use are stretchy and require adjustment
during the belt's service life. I'd pay for one that didn't. I think
they're for lawnmovers or something. Is stretch a design consideration
in alternator belts? Sort of a high load slipping clutch like the
doughnuts in an outboard propellor?

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How's the tension. Properly adjusted?

It is the pulley's. My 351 was also going through belts. The 351 is a
marine engine from Ford and Red Line Marine in Lewiston, ID is a parts
distributor. The pulleys are only one the marine engine. Red Line ships,
the pulleys are not cheap. Pull the pulley's and check the numbers on them.
They are stamped in to the metal.
Bill

Tell us, Bill, how are you 100% sure it's the pulleys, and all of
them? Could it not be just ONE pulley with a burr on it, or worn so
that it's not true anymore? Could it not be that one or more pulleys
are out of alignment with the others? Could it be that the harmonic
balancer is not aligned properly, thus allowing the crankshaft pulley
to run eccentric?

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Like I said the pulleys don't look to be out of alignment, I will check with
straight edge, probably in winter storage. Belts on pulleys don't look to be
bottoming out all belts align up with pulleys I looked at that. Guess I
could look harder but pulleys don't appear to be worn. I also replaced the
power steering/waterpump belt when I first got the boat 2 yrs. ago, and it
is still working no problems with it. But this harmonic balancer u are
talking about K Smith, how can I check it? The part I think your talking
about is # 38 the damper crankshaft, is it
not(http://216.37.204.206/Actionsports/O...pe=13&A=48&B=4) .
Seems like the alt. belt has to be tighter than normal (but not so tight I
can't get a 1/4 inch deflection) if its very loose it will squeal, That
Damper is allot of money would like to know how to test it before I spend
$100, I didn't know it was there am used to automotive pulley on crankshaft
don't have one. Thanks for all your reply's I guess I will have to do some
investigation further, it stinks to have to change your belt on a day off
trying to go out to sea. Happy Boating


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:04:08 GMT, "Wildest Dream"
wrote:

Hi does anyone have problems with alternator belts breaking 2 or 3 times
a
yr. about 100 hrs./yr. Looks to me the cause is rust on the pulleys
grinding
down the belts and leaving a nasty rubber powder behind, I always keep a
spare on board never had to change out of port,(almost the last time out
but
I thought my partner lost the anchor and I was close to port.) never had
to
get towed yet thanks goodness. The pulleys look to be running true. I
think
it is when I start it the first time for the day I have to pump the carb.
alittle, (throttle) and leave it open some and the jump in rpm's and
first
rust of the day pops it off. What do u think? Thank u all, Need Help in
Jersey.


This is (very) excessive. Check alignment, fit for sheave to sheave
and belt to sheave(s), and proper tension. Use the manufacturer's
specs for setting all of the above. Beyond this might be an overload
caused by too great a pre load on alternator bearings or more esoteric
crap..... check the simple things first..... and report back....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

WOW I just got sticker shock for replacing all 4 pulley's $300 or $250 w/o
the power steering pulley. I would really like to try to explain that one to
my partners wife but we are in the verge of trying to sell the boat so if
that's what it comes to I think I will leave it for the new owner, Just put
the forsale sign on it last Mon., "My father said the happiest day of a boat
buyers life is when he buys the boat and when he sells it" but I'm not so
sure, it is allot of money to keep one, and allot of time to keep it in good
shape, but I still love that boat. Good Boating.
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:04:08 GMT, "Wildest Dream"
wrote:

Hi does anyone have problems with alternator belts breaking 2 or 3 times
a
yr. about 100 hrs./yr. Looks to me the cause is rust on the pulleys
grinding
down the belts and leaving a nasty rubber powder behind, I always keep a
spare on board never had to change out of port,(almost the last time out
but
I thought my partner lost the anchor and I was close to port.) never had
to
get towed yet thanks goodness. The pulleys look to be running true. I
think
it is when I start it the first time for the day I have to pump the carb.
alittle, (throttle) and leave it open some and the jump in rpm's and
first
rust of the day pops it off. What do u think? Thank u all, Need Help in
Jersey.


This is (very) excessive. Check alignment, fit for sheave to sheave
and belt to sheave(s), and proper tension. Use the manufacturer's
specs for setting all of the above. Beyond this might be an overload
caused by too great a pre load on alternator bearings or more esoteric
crap..... check the simple things first..... and report back....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How's the tension. Properly adjusted?

It is the pulley's. My 351 was also going through belts. The 351 is a
marine engine from Ford and Red Line Marine in Lewiston, ID is a parts
distributor. The pulleys are only one the marine engine. Red Line
ships,
the pulleys are not cheap. Pull the pulley's and check the numbers on
them.
They are stamped in to the metal.
Bill

Tell us, Bill, how are you 100% sure it's the pulleys, and all of
them? Could it not be just ONE pulley with a burr on it, or worn so
that it's not true anymore? Could it not be that one or more pulleys
are out of alignment with the others? Could it be that the harmonic
balancer is not aligned properly, thus allowing the crankshaft pulley
to run eccentric?

Because I had the same exact problem last year. Checked all the wrecking
yards for pulleys. Called the marineizer for the engine, and they sent me
to Red Line as the Ford authorized supplier. Changed the pulleys on the
harmonic balancer and the water pump with pulleys from Red Line, and the
alternator pulley with a pulley from the local parts house. Red Line said
they are industrial engines and the pulleys are only found on them. No
problems since. Since I, unlike you, have a brain. I know what the problem
is!

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How's the tension. Properly adjusted?

It is the pulley's. My 351 was also going through belts. The 351 is a
marine engine from Ford and Red Line Marine in Lewiston, ID is a parts
distributor. The pulleys are only one the marine engine. Red Line
ships,
the pulleys are not cheap. Pull the pulley's and check the numbers on
them.
They are stamped in to the metal.
Bill

Tell us, Bill, how are you 100% sure it's the pulleys, and all of
them? Could it not be just ONE pulley with a burr on it, or worn so
that it's not true anymore? Could it not be that one or more pulleys
are out of alignment with the others? Could it be that the harmonic
balancer is not aligned properly, thus allowing the crankshaft pulley
to run eccentric?

Because I had the same exact problem last year. Checked all the wrecking
yards for pulleys. Called the marineizer for the engine, and they sent me
to Red Line as the Ford authorized supplier. Changed the pulleys on the
harmonic balancer and the water pump with pulleys from Red Line, and the
alternator pulley with a pulley from the local parts house. Red Line said
they are industrial engines and the pulleys are only found on them. No
problems since. Since I, unlike you, have a brain. I know what the problem
is!

So, you are saying that you are 100% positive that it needs new
pulleys?????
You haven't SEEN them, nor heard them, nor seen the condition of the
broken drive belts, and because you had a problem with YOUR pulleys,
that you can diagnose his engine just from him saying his belts break
prematurely?????
And THEN you have the audacity to say I have no brain, and you do???
This is too funny!!!!

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Hi Gene I don't know how a crank or rod about to break would affect just one
belt. I replaced the power steering belt 2 yrs. ago and it is still in good
shape. The damper could be a problem, I saw it is $100, but I still think it
would affect the other belt. I guess if the bracket for the alternator was
worn out it would be miss aligned. I could see that being a problem
especially after noticing the one bolt that holds it straight was alittle
loose. I could also see a bad pulley being the culprit, especially being it
has to be so tight, I will just have to check them all more carefully. Yes I
will try to fix the problem before I get rid of the boat, that is not why I
want to sell it, seemed to me that $4000 + this yr. just to take 5 or 6
short rides on the water was not worth it to me, I would like to get a
smaller boat w/out a partner, that I could trailer. I don't think I put 100
hrs. on it this yr. not even close, I just threw that # out for approx, I
know its not close, excessive if anything. Thanks for all the reply's Bill
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:58:13 GMT, "Wildest Dream"
wrote:

WOW I just got sticker shock for replacing all 4 pulley's $300 or $250
w/o
the power steering pulley. I would really like to try to explain that one
to
my partners wife but we are in the verge of trying to sell the boat so if
that's what it comes to I think I will leave it for the new owner, Just
put
the forsale sign on it last Mon., "My father said the happiest day of a
boat
buyers life is when he buys the boat and when he sells it" but I'm not so
sure, it is allot of money to keep one, and allot of time to keep it in
good
shape, but I still love that boat. Good Boating.


You know, this just dawned on me..... I've seen this sort of behavior
on some Continental aircraft engines. This can be caused with issues
of detuning the crankshaft... if this is the case, you may have a
crank or rod about to let go.

It is highly unlikely that the harmonic balancer is the culprit, but
it could be that the HB is unable to accomplish its job due to the
severity of the problem. Remove the belt(s) and see if the HB is
loose or sloppy feeling.

If rapid fluctuation in engine RPM causes this, it is likely the
problem I have described. If no internal damage exists changing the
HB may fix the problem, but if you had sticker shock over the pulleys
you will probably have coronary arrest with the HB price...

Selling the boat may be the best course, but you may have a really
unhappy buyer on your hands in the foreseeable future....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures
at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Wildest Dream" wrote
especially being it has to be so tight

Do you have a particularly heavy electrical load on your DC system? We tend
to think of the alternator as just a roundy-roundy gadget, but it's actually
capable of transferring a good deal of power from the engine to the wires by
way of that little belt. Combine a heavy load with a somewhat damaged or
misaligned or mis-sized pulley and you could maybe possibly under just the
right circumstances have a recipe for excessive wear.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

don't think the load is a problem everything is off when it happens, or when
I notice. the heaviest draw would be the trim and tabs. Thanks
"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
...
"Wildest Dream" wrote
especially being it has to be so tight

Do you have a particularly heavy electrical load on your DC system? We
tend
to think of the alternator as just a roundy-roundy gadget, but it's
actually
capable of transferring a good deal of power from the engine to the wires
by
way of that little belt. Combine a heavy load with a somewhat damaged or
misaligned or mis-sized pulley and you could maybe possibly under just the
right circumstances have a recipe for excessive wear.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

I think it was just over revving, just had it out yesterday and it worked
great, didn't rev it past 2000 on startup, think I will adj. the choke and
see if it runs better, should be easier startup anyway. Thanks


"Wildest Dream" wrote in message
. net...
don't think the load is a problem everything is off when it happens, or
when
I notice. the heaviest draw would be the trim and tabs. Thanks
"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
...
"Wildest Dream" wrote
especially being it has to be so tight

Do you have a particularly heavy electrical load on your DC system? We
tend
to think of the alternator as just a roundy-roundy gadget, but it's
actually
capable of transferring a good deal of power from the engine to the
wires
by
way of that little belt. Combine a heavy load with a somewhat damaged or
misaligned or mis-sized pulley and you could maybe possibly under just
the
right circumstances have a recipe for excessive wear.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Is there any possibility that you are using the wrong belt?

They come in different widths, and a "too narrow" belt would rub the bottom of
the pulley(s), requiring extra tension, causing extra wear.

A properly sized belt will not touch the bottom of the vee in the pulley.

Joe Savard

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

No the belt is from OMC fits to the outside top of the pulley, I would have
noticed if it was the wrong size, was tight putting on the pulleys, thought
it would be easier to put on smaller alt. pulley last but it was easier to
put on waterpump pulley last, used it 2 times and no problem w/old
replacement (using the belt I had on last yr.). Only broke twice in 2 yrs.
so I guess I can deal with that, always keep a old one on board in the bilge
next to the batteries, saved the tow twice. Never been towed yet but only
been boating 2 yrs. Thanks for the reply
"JLSAVARD" wrote in message
...
Is there any possibility that you are using the wrong belt?

They come in different widths, and a "too narrow" belt would rub the
bottom of
the pulley(s), requiring extra tension, causing extra wear.

A properly sized belt will not touch the bottom of the vee in the pulley.

Joe Savard

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Wildest Dream" wrote
Only broke twice in 2 yrs.
so I guess I can deal with that

I'm pretty sure the belt on my merc is the original from 1978.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:04:08 +0000, Wildest Dream wrote:

Hi does anyone have problems with alternator belts breaking 2 or 3 times
a yr. about 100 hrs./yr.

Wow - that IS excessive!

When I bought Far Cove almost 15 years ago, it was noted that the
alternator pulley was out of alignment (turns out the dealer didn't use
the "adapter kit" required to mount the 55A alternator on a Universal). I
promptly looked for spare belts, but to this day haven't found one the
correct length. And, nearly 15 years and 3 alternators later (I only
learned of the "adapter kit" this year), the original belt is still
holding on, with little signs of wear.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

My alt. belt breaks alot

As Lloyd states.... you've probably got a pulley out of alignment. That'll cut
a belt up fairly quick.

Joe (30+ Years With OMC)

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Hey Joe I hope u have a spare onboard, I always do or 2. have a spare water
pump belt on board also, I would hate to wait to get towed because of that.

"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
...
"Wildest Dream" wrote
Only broke twice in 2 yrs.
so I guess I can deal with that

I'm pretty sure the belt on my merc is the original from 1978.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Check the bearings in the pulleys.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

"Wildest Dream" wrote
I'm pretty sure the belt on my merc is the original from 1978.

Hey Joe I hope u have a spare onboard

Actually, I don't. But I seldom go very far from home and I'm on a river, so
it's kind of hard to get very far from shore.

My alt. belt breaks alot Help please
 

Joe I don't go very far either but a tow is a tow, I do have towing
insurance but I'd hate to wait for the guy, that would really ruin my day
plans on the water, I can change a belt in about 15 Min. GL GB



"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
...
"Wildest Dream" wrote
I'm pretty sure the belt on my merc is the original from 1978.

Hey Joe I hope u have a spare onboard

Actually, I don't. But I seldom go very far from home and I'm on a river,
so
it's kind of hard to get very far from shore.