Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

Further cheapening of the Royalex "recipe"? They are going to
cheapen/ change themselves out of the market.

Hey, does anyone build a decent whtiewater boat in composites any
more? Remember the Wenonah Edge?

-Dan V.

On 25 May 2004 08:23:02 -0700, (Mike McCrea)
wrote:


I wonder in fact if there was yet another, more recent, change in the
composition of Royalex sheets. Our newest canoes all developed similar
depressions after just a few river runs, and many of those "bruises"
(which are noticable only on the exterior skin of the ABS) were along
the chines where the boat pressed up against some obstruction. Those
bruises or depressions have never popped back out after full
sun/warmth exposure.

More and more I appreciate pre-90 Royalex; our canoes from the 80's
are much tougher and take a licking without bruising. Our canoes from
the early and mid 90's are less hardy, and our newest Royalex boats
are wimps compared to the durability of the old Royalex.

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

I'll offer one more possibility to explain why our most recent Royalex
canoes seem to bruise so easily, even when compared with our mid-90's
boats (which are of the less hardy Royalex composition):

Our newest canoes are (were) in fact *very* new, as in popping outa
the mold fresh from the factory. We were paddling them only weeks
after they'd been made.

I sorta wonder if maybe Royalex continues to "cure" for some time
after manufacture?

A friend of our bought an canoe identical (same make and model) to one
of ours, but his had sat unsold in a dealer's store for nearly two
years. Both boats went on the same couple of initial trips, and he
without a doubt ran into and over more things than I, and his hull
isn't nearly as bruised.

Anyoen know - does Royalex continue to cure or harded for some time
after manufacturer?

Dan Valleskey valleskey at comcast dot net wrote in message . ..
Further cheapening of the Royalex "recipe"? They are going to
cheapen/ change themselves out of the market.

Hey, does anyone build a decent whtiewater boat in composites any
more? Remember the Wenonah Edge?

-Dan V.

On 25 May 2004 08:23:02 -0700, (Mike McCrea)
wrote:


I wonder in fact if there was yet another, more recent, change in the
composition of Royalex sheets. Our newest canoes all developed similar
depressions after just a few river runs, and many of those "bruises"
(which are noticable only on the exterior skin of the ABS) were along
the chines where the boat pressed up against some obstruction. Those
bruises or depressions have never popped back out after full
sun/warmth exposure.

More and more I appreciate pre-90 Royalex; our canoes from the 80's
are much tougher and take a licking without bruising. Our canoes from
the early and mid 90's are less hardy, and our newest Royalex boats
are wimps compared to the durability of the old Royalex.

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

A couple :

www.millbrookboats.com
http://www.clippercanoes.com/categor...ame=Whitewater

And yes I do remember the Wenonah Edge, mine was in "toughweave" (aka
tupperweave) - that was one heavy boat!

Dan Valleskey valleskey at comcast dot net wrote in message . ..
Further cheapening of the Royalex "recipe"? They are going to
cheapen/ change themselves out of the market.

Hey, does anyone build a decent whtiewater boat in composites any
more? Remember the Wenonah Edge?

-Dan V.

On 25 May 2004 08:23:02 -0700, (Mike McCrea)
wrote:


I wonder in fact if there was yet another, more recent, change in the
composition of Royalex sheets. Our newest canoes all developed similar
depressions after just a few river runs, and many of those "bruises"
(which are noticable only on the exterior skin of the ABS) were along
the chines where the boat pressed up against some obstruction. Those
bruises or depressions have never popped back out after full
sun/warmth exposure.

More and more I appreciate pre-90 Royalex; our canoes from the 80's
are much tougher and take a licking without bruising. Our canoes from
the early and mid 90's are less hardy, and our newest Royalex boats
are wimps compared to the durability of the old Royalex.

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

If it were me, I'd pay the extra 100 bucks just for the piece of mind. Mike
"Mike Swaim" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I'm considering my first Royalex boat. I've narrowed my choices down
to an Old Town Penobscot 16' for a whole lot of reasons.

The local REI has two of these exactly as I would want them. The
non-blemished one is on sale for their anniversary sale at $799 (down
from nearly a grand). So good so far. But, they also have a blemished
one that appears to have voids in the inner foam core on one side
right where the gunnells meet the flat bottom (tumblehome area???)
Anyway, these depressions are a series of penny sized to maybe very
small egg sized depressions in an area that's maybe 4-5" long on one
side only. The assist. mgr. said he'd take off another $100 for that.
These depressed areas do not penetrate either the skin or the
interior, and are not soft at all.

I've pressed both on them and beside them as hard as I can with my
thumbs and can't feel any give whatsover. It appears to me that these
are areas where the mold somehow left voids in the inner foam core.
They do not appear to be actual dents, since there is no abrasion on
the skin. On the interior, they're not visual or even tactile. The
interior really seems in good shape. The rest of the exterior also
seems in really good shape.

Tomorrow I'm buying one of these Penobscots. The question is which
one? Would the described depressions keep you from wanting a boat at
what amounts to 30% off? A $700 Penobscot with a 100%, no time limit
customer satisfaction guarantee has it's appeal to me.

What do ya'll think?

Thanks very, very much for any prompt replies.
Mike

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

"Mike McCrea" wrote in message
om...

Anyoen know - does Royalex continue to cure or harded for some time
after manufacturer?


My server is downloading at something like 3 bits per second, so I can't
wait around for the page to open, but I remember the specs for all different
layups of Royalex was on the Spartech site (they are the manufacturers;
www.spartech.com) If you search there, you'll probably find it.

However, knowing that Royalex stays thermoreactive for years, I can only
imagine that it must continue to 'cure' as it sits in the showroom. The real
question is: how long until it has hardened past it's elastic deformation
point? If it reaches that in a few hours, then it shouldn't be affected by
being on a stream in a few days or weeks.

Let us know what you find.

--riverman

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Mike McCrea" wrote in message
om...

Anyoen know - does Royalex continue to cure or harded for some time
after manufacturer?


My server is downloading at something like 3 bits per second, so I can't
wait around for the page to open, but I remember the specs for all
different
layups of Royalex was on the Spartech site (they are the manufacturers;
www.spartech.com) If you search there, you'll probably find it.
The link to the PDF doesn't work at the moment. Wonder why?
http://www.spartech.com/royalite/pdf/royalex-low.pdf


However, knowing that Royalex stays thermoreactive for years, I can only
imagine that it must continue to 'cure' as it sits in the showroom. The
real
question is: how long until it has hardened past it's elastic deformation
point? If it reaches that in a few hours, then it shouldn't be affected by
being on a stream in a few days or weeks.

Let us know what you find.

--riverman

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

"MLL" wrote in message
m...

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Mike McCrea" wrote in message
om...

Anyoen know - does Royalex continue to cure or harded for some time
after manufacturer?


My server is downloading at something like 3 bits per second, so I can't
wait around for the page to open, but I remember the specs for all
different
layups of Royalex was on the Spartech site (they are the manufacturers;
www.spartech.com) If you search there, you'll probably find it.

The link to the PDF doesn't work at the moment. Wonder why?
http://www.spartech.com/royalite/pdf/royalex-low.pdf



Dunno. but the stats aren't on the PDF file. Pan across the top to the
'products' dropdown, then to 'Royalite' and 'processing guidelines'. Looks
to me like it all cures in 8-24 hours.

--riverman

Voids in Royalex foam co Buy or Not?
 

Well, this is a kind of interesting experience. I wish I'd have done a
pencil rubbing of the blemished area to start with. This boat sat on the
dealer's rack since 11/03. When I got it, the blemished area was very
dented. However, it sat on my roof rack for 2 days in the blazing sun, and
then on a rack in my yard for a week. Since then, I'd say the blemished area
has definitely filled in to about 1/2 the depth that it was initially. It's
still very much present, but isn't quite as well defined as it was
initially. The edges are less pronounced and it's definitely shallower than
it was.

I would've gladly purchased the "non-blemished" boat for $100 more, except
that it wasn't non-blemished. It has one inch long cut that looks to me like
it's completely through the outer skin, and numerous shallow dings and
scrapes. So, with that in mind, this "blemished" boat actually looked to me
like a better bet.

I'm wondering if the dinged area on my boat represents a series of dents or
if it represents an area that the foam core just didn't expand? It's
interesting to me that it's starting to fill in a little. Maybe it just
needs more time in the sun? (Don't worry, I'm not going to store it in the
sun forever, but I'm curious if a month in the sun will erase the blemished
area.)

Mike Swaim