Steve Jobs has died...
 

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story
--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story


A shame. He brought much to this world that many of us often take for
granted. Smart guy.

Eisboch

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/5/11 7:57 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story



A shame. He brought much to this world that many of us often take for
granted. Smart guy.

Eisboch


Decent guy, too, and a real showman.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:57:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"X ` Man" wrote in message
om...

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story


A shame. He brought much to this world that many of us often take for
granted. Smart guy.

Eisboch

================

Very smart guy, a genius at product design and user interface. He
picked up good ideas that others had overlooked and turned them into
revolutionary products like the Apple Macintosh and the Ipod.

The first time I saw a Macintosh back in the '80s I was blown away by
the mouse, windowing concepts and great graphics capabilities.
Everything else looked like stone age computing by comparison.

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:50:21 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story

The evil do have a tendency to stick around longer than the good.

In any case, I disagree. Cheney's been dead for years. That's a
zombie traveling the talk show circuit with his demented daughter.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:57:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"X ` Man" wrote in message
om...

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story


A shame. He brought much to this world that many of us often take for
granted. Smart guy.

Eisboch

He was a big thinker and a micro manager. Had an incredible sense for
product development and what would appeal to consumers.

I was privy to a conversation between he and Bill Gates at a
conference in San Jose more than 20 years ago. This was when Jobs was
trying to get Next off the ground and selling chiefly to higher ed.
Our team was presenting in the same session as both he and Gates and I
happened to be in a small circle of people as they were catching each
other up on the latest at each company. Gates was already filthy rich
and Jobs was starting over after having gotten the boot from Apple. It
was an interesting period in time. No one knew at the time that Jobs
would invest in Pixar and then return to Apple to run it again.

I've made most of my living off of Gate's platform but it was Jobs who
altered my life course in 1984 and set me on the path that I'm on
today.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:42:15 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards

I, for one, am glad Jobs visited PARC and borrowed their design. I'd
certainly be in a different business and probably have a different
life.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

It's too bad we lose people like Steve Jobs when trash like Dick Cheney
is still alive.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...,7292186.story

Saved......

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.

8088 ran at a dizzying speed of 4.77 Mhz, and had 16k of memory!

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/6/2011 6:30 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board.

*Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.*


Hard to believe, period.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article om,
says...

On 10/6/2011 6:30 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board.

*Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.*


Hard to believe, period.

Because of who wrote it!

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/6/11 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:30:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.


If it was really 1983 you should have been able to get an XT with a 10
or 20 meg hard drive.
That was also the upgraded 5150 with hard drive BIOS if it was 1983
and it probably had a 256k floppy, 64k on the system board etc.
My PC-1 was 16k on the system board, 128k drives and no hard drive
BIOS.
I put a hard drive in mine after I got to Florida about 84-85 and that
required the upgrade system board. Fortunately I was in a place where
that stuff was around ;-)
I did get a drive, controller and the "6 pack" card from an outside
source, not IBM.
We used that machine in my wife's business and ended up selling it
when the business sold as an included asset. By then I was into a
PS/2..

The box had one 256K floppy. I bought another separately from a mail
order supplier. I don't recall a standard hard drive being available.
The dealer gave me a copy of WordStar to use as a word processor. I
almost returned the damned computer two days later...WordStar in those
days was a very complex, difficult program in those days. But the dealer
had a backup...he gave me a copy of Volkswriter, a word processor
suitable for the computer moron I was at that time.

A year or so after I got it, I got the Eagle...which had the 8086 chip,
a floppy drive and a hard drive.



--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...
.WordStar in those
days was a very complex, difficult program in those days


WTF?? Professional writer my ass!!!

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/6/2011 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:30:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.


If it was really 1983 you should have been able to get an XT with a 10
or 20 meg hard drive.
That was also the upgraded 5150 with hard drive BIOS if it was 1983
and it probably had a 256k floppy, 64k on the system board etc.
My PC-1 was 16k on the system board, 128k drives and no hard drive
BIOS.
I put a hard drive in mine after I got to Florida about 84-85 and that
required the upgrade system board. Fortunately I was in a place where
that stuff was around ;-)
I did get a drive, controller and the "6 pack" card from an outside
source, not IBM.
We used that machine in my wife's business and ended up selling it
when the business sold as an included asset. By then I was into a
PS/2..

You know he was lying, right??

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/6/11 6:55 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/6/2011 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:30:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.


If it was really 1983 you should have been able to get an XT with a 10
or 20 meg hard drive.
That was also the upgraded 5150 with hard drive BIOS if it was 1983
and it probably had a 256k floppy, 64k on the system board etc.
My PC-1 was 16k on the system board, 128k drives and no hard drive
BIOS.
I put a hard drive in mine after I got to Florida about 84-85 and that
required the upgrade system board. Fortunately I was in a place where
that stuff was around ;-)
I did get a drive, controller and the "6 pack" card from an outside
source, not IBM.
We used that machine in my wife's business and ended up selling it
when the business sold as an included asset. By then I was into a
PS/2..

You know he was lying, right??

Paid those real estate taxes yet?

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:42:15 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards

I, for one, am glad Jobs visited PARC and borrowed their design. I'd
certainly be in a different business and probably have a different
life.


--------------------------------------
The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/11 2:58 AM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.


Ahh, but there are no laptops I have seen as elegant as the MacBooks,
especially the new really light and small new laptops. Even my two or
three year old MacBook Pro has a more elegant design than almost any
laptop offered by another vendor. Plus, if I wanted to, I could run
virtually any Windoze program on it. The downside is that the Apple
computer products are significantly overpriced on the basis of hardware.

I think the iPad is pretty slick, but it's not for us. The scarcity of
ports plus the necessity of carrying around a keyboard if you really
want to use it as a laptop replacement limits its attractiveness. And,
of course, you'd have to subscribe to a second data plan if you wanted
to "connect" with it by means other than wi-fi. The Samsung Galaxy
models are slick, but again, you need to carry a keyboard to do any
serious typing. I do think it has more ports, though. On the downside,
the Android OS isn't nearly as elegant as what Apple offers.

I probably would have gotten in line for an iPhone 5, but the 4S doesn't
do it for me. My Android smartphone is coming off contract soon, but the
4S has a smaller screen than my current cell. I was hoping the iPhone 5
would have a larger screen. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

Hence the iCloud. Apple has figured out how to keep their hand in your
wallet.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

Apple is not the issue, Microsoft is the issue. The number of
applications that run on Windows is important.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/11 8:12 AM, BAR wrote:

Apple is not the issue, Microsoft is the issue. The number of
applications that run on Windows is important.


There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS. I have a lot of
Mac apps, too. Oh, and MS releases Mac versions of its leading software
for use on Macs. And, of course, Windoze, even the latest version, runs
just fine on Macs.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On 10/6/11 6:55 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/6/2011 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:30:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 10/6/11 1:42 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:43:24 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

Few people realize it today but the mouse and windowing concepts
originated in a Xerox Corporate R&D operation called the Palo Alto
Research Center (PARC). It was a classic case of not knowing what
they had invented and not knowing what to do with it.

I was a computer guy watching all of those missteps in the early days
of the desk top computer. I never understood why Wang had all of that
computer horsepower under the desk and only used it to type letters.
I was frustrated that my Atari 2600 didn't have a keyboard and a user
accessible program language. It was clear that this thing had as much
power as a late 60s mainframe.

I did have a first day ship PC tho.

I was not as impressed with the cartoon interface as I was supposed to
be. I stuck with DOS until it was pried out of my dead cold hands and
I still have DOS applications I run almost every day now.
I suppose the difference is I was raised in a text based computer
world. Command line does not scare me,
In fact the first computers I worked with did not even have a console
or a keyboard. You either inputted with cards or you manually entered
things with switches and buttons.
Of course a whole payroll system might fit in 4K of core. Programs
were a lot smaller.
My basic school "penny a day" program for a 1401 fit on three 80
column cards


I bought one of the first IBM PCs available at a retail store in McLean,
Virginia, in either 1983 or 1984. It was an 8088 machine, with one
floppy drive. I bought a second floppy drive...it was very expensive.
Looked at a Macintosh about then, too, at a store in Bethesday. I was
not that impressed with it. Much much later, after I had written a few
articles for PC Week, PC Mag and Byte, I started corresponding with
Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, at Byte, and he arranged for me to
receive an S-100 bus computer similar to what he was using. I messed
with it for about six months and told him I didn't think the S-100 bus
had much of a future in the face of what IBM and Apple and the IBM
imitators were doing. Later I sold the IBM and got an Eagle, with an
8086 CPU and an AST graphics board. Hard to believe that was close to 30
years ago.


If it was really 1983 you should have been able to get an XT with a 10
or 20 meg hard drive.
That was also the upgraded 5150 with hard drive BIOS if it was 1983
and it probably had a 256k floppy, 64k on the system board etc.
My PC-1 was 16k on the system board, 128k drives and no hard drive
BIOS.
I put a hard drive in mine after I got to Florida about 84-85 and that
required the upgrade system board. Fortunately I was in a place where
that stuff was around ;-)
I did get a drive, controller and the "6 pack" card from an outside
source, not IBM.
We used that machine in my wife's business and ended up selling it
when the business sold as an included asset. By then I was into a
PS/2..

You know he was lying, right??

Paid those real estate taxes yet?

Well, notice that he never said he DIDN'T lie!!

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On 10/7/11 2:58 AM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.


Ahh, but there are no laptops I have seen as elegant as the MacBooks,
especially the new really light and small new laptops. Even my two or
three year old MacBook Pro has a more elegant design than almost any
laptop offered by another vendor. Plus, if I wanted to, I could run
virtually any Windoze program on it. The downside is that the Apple
computer products are significantly overpriced on the basis of hardware.

I think the iPad is pretty slick, but it's not for us. The scarcity of
ports plus the necessity of carrying around a keyboard if you really
want to use it as a laptop replacement limits its attractiveness. And,
of course, you'd have to subscribe to a second data plan if you wanted
to "connect" with it by means other than wi-fi. The Samsung Galaxy
models are slick, but again, you need to carry a keyboard to do any
serious typing. I do think it has more ports, though. On the downside,
the Android OS isn't nearly as elegant as what Apple offers.

I probably would have gotten in line for an iPhone 5, but the 4S doesn't
do it for me. My Android smartphone is coming off contract soon, but the
4S has a smaller screen than my current cell. I was hoping the iPhone 5
would have a larger screen. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Harry likes his Mac because it's prety!!!

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:10:01 -0400, Jimmy wrote:

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Hey, dildo, he said "I use." That means for his purposes, it works.

You have something against personal freedom?

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/11 3:44 PM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:10:01 -0400, wrote:

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Hey, dildo, he said "I use." That means for his purposes, it works.

You have something against personal freedom?

Most of the righties here simply cannot read a simple declarative
sentence and understand it.

"Jimmy," whose posts I don't read, is just a doppelganger of a regular
poster here. You'd be amazed at how few folks there are in here who post
with any regularity or frequency.




--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On 10/7/11 2:58 AM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.


Ahh, but there are no laptops I have seen as elegant as the MacBooks,
especially the new really light and small new laptops. Even my two or
three year old MacBook Pro has a more elegant design than almost any
laptop offered by another vendor. Plus, if I wanted to, I could run
virtually any Windoze program on it. The downside is that the Apple
computer products are significantly overpriced on the basis of hardware.

I think the iPad is pretty slick, but it's not for us. The scarcity of
ports plus the necessity of carrying around a keyboard if you really
want to use it as a laptop replacement limits its attractiveness. And,
of course, you'd have to subscribe to a second data plan if you wanted
to "connect" with it by means other than wi-fi. The Samsung Galaxy
models are slick, but again, you need to carry a keyboard to do any
serious typing. I do think it has more ports, though. On the downside,
the Android OS isn't nearly as elegant as what Apple offers.

I probably would have gotten in line for an iPhone 5, but the 4S doesn't
do it for me. My Android smartphone is coming off contract soon, but the
4S has a smaller screen than my current cell. I was hoping the iPhone 5
would have a larger screen. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Harry likes his Mac because it's prety!!!

What color is Harry's Mac?

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:10:01 -0400, Jimmy wrote:

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Hey, dildo, he said "I use." That means for his purposes, it works.

You have something against personal freedom?

You need to lookup myopic.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/2011 3:44 PM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:10:01 -0400, wrote:

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Hey, dildo, he said "I use." That means for his purposes, it works.

You have something against personal freedom?

I'm sorry that you failed to understand what I was communicating,
however, the fault lies with you, and I'm not going to attempt to try again.

Personal freedom in this country is the right to own guns.

You have something against personal freedom?

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/7/2011 5:58 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:10:01 -0400, wrote:

On 10/7/2011 8:23 AM, X ` Man wrote:

There no longer is a single application I use for which there isn't a
similar or better version available for the Apple OS.

Krause once again confirms his myopic view of the world.

Hey, dildo, he said "I use." That means for his purposes, it works.

You have something against personal freedom?

You need to lookup myopic.

See, JPS, BAR understood what I wrote, and the intent.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/8/11 2:48 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:58:04 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.

The Ipod is the one that confuses me. What is so special about a music
player that is aimed at a proprietary music format?
I have a $20 Sansa that holds over 50 hours of music and a third of
that is on an SD card that I can swap out.
It is smaller than an Ipod, basically about the size of a thick
"credit card" calculator.


The iPod may be "aimed" at a proprietary music format (to sell the stuff
in the Apple music store, of course), but it also plays MP3's without
choking. And videos and podcasts and you can use it as a hard drive.
I've got an older iPod...from 2003 maybe, and its little disk drive
inside holds 50 or 60 gigs. It's not as small as your Sansa, but I like
its ergonomics and size. The iPod is "special" because it was the first
with a really elegant design.

Design counts.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:58:04 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:19:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:15:53 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The good part was he recognized brilliance, which Xerox never did. But he
stole the design, he did not borrow it. Xerox should have owned about 1/2
of Apple for that breach of etiquette. He even tried to sue Microsoft for
stealing "his" idea.


There was a lot of "idea stealing" going on in the early PC business.
If you saw a neat idea, you stole it.
Gates perfected the art of simply buying out any serious competition
he had once he was rich enough to sue.
Jobs was successful because he was too small to be sued for anti-trust
when Apple was young and too big to screw with when it became
successful He is probably the most successful "closed architecture"
company since Ma Bell.
He got away with it because his reach was spread across so many
different platforms that he did not have a monopolistic market share
of any of them.
Of course there is no such thing as anti trust legislation these days
anyway.

Personally I think Apple is a little too "culty" for me. I prefer open
architecture and I will live with the quirks.
Dell is too "closed" for my taste.

And so the game continues with the iPhone and iPad, neither allowing
flash (and thereby opening the platform) to run.

But, unlike the closed architcture of the Mac, iPads (for now) and
iPods dominate the market. Apple will never dominate the computer
business. They may sell more laptops than any other laptop
manufacturer but there are 10 laptop manufacturers, mostly producing
product for the Windows environment. Even with the iPad's popularity,
competitors running Android (Galaxy Tab) are quickly gaining momentum.

The iPod and iPhone will continue to have a large market share but the
computing market, including the iPad, is another thing.

The Ipod is the one that confuses me. What is so special about a music
player that is aimed at a proprietary music format?
I have a $20 Sansa that holds over 50 hours of music and a third of
that is on an SD card that I can swap out.
It is smaller than an Ipod, basically about the size of a thick
"credit card" calculator.

I'll tell you, I wouldn't have an apple product or their software
installed on my computer for anything. WAY too intrusive.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

On 10/8/11 2:08 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 07:17:28 -0400, X `
wrote:

The Ipod is the one that confuses me. What is so special about a music
player that is aimed at a proprietary music format?
I have a $20 Sansa that holds over 50 hours of music and a third of
that is on an SD card that I can swap out.
It is smaller than an Ipod, basically about the size of a thick
"credit card" calculator.


The iPod may be "aimed" at a proprietary music format (to sell the stuff
in the Apple music store, of course), but it also plays MP3's without
choking. And videos and podcasts and you can use it as a hard drive.
I've got an older iPod...from 2003 maybe, and its little disk drive
inside holds 50 or 60 gigs. It's not as small as your Sansa, but I like
its ergonomics and size. The iPod is "special" because it was the first
with a really elegant design.

Design counts.

I guess I just don't care about watching TV on a 2" screen so pod
casts and such are not important to me. My Sansa is pretty old too but
it holds plenty of music. The SD card makes it virtually unlimited.
Any USB storage device looks like a disk drive to a PC. The Sansa
doesn't choke on other file types intermingled in the music, unlike a
lot of far more expensive removable media players (including the one
in my wife's Lincoln).
The $20 part really makes it attractive because losing it is no big
deal.


I've got my eye on iPhone development. Verizon will give me a good
trade-in on my Android phone, and I can sell my iPod on ebay for a few
bucks. I'll wait until the new iPhones are actually at the stores. I was
hoping for a larger screen, but I am interested in the fact that the 4S
can handle CDMA *and* GMS, which means I won't have to carry or have two
cell phones on trips out of the country. And its iPod functions are as
good as those on an iPod.

I like apple stuff and apple support. If I have a problem, I can get
good English speaking help on the phone or I can pop up to the Apple
store in Annapolis. When I first got my 27" iMac, it had a minor screen
problem. A month later, I took it up to the store and they simply
replaced the whole unit and transferred over the contents of my hard
drive to the new machine.


--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Steve Jobs has died...
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 07:17:28 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The Ipod is the one that confuses me. What is so special about a music
player that is aimed at a proprietary music format?
I have a $20 Sansa that holds over 50 hours of music and a third of
that is on an SD card that I can swap out.
It is smaller than an Ipod, basically about the size of a thick
"credit card" calculator.


The iPod may be "aimed" at a proprietary music format (to sell the stuff
in the Apple music store, of course), but it also plays MP3's without
choking. And videos and podcasts and you can use it as a hard drive.
I've got an older iPod...from 2003 maybe, and its little disk drive
inside holds 50 or 60 gigs. It's not as small as your Sansa, but I like
its ergonomics and size. The iPod is "special" because it was the first
with a really elegant design.

Design counts.

I guess I just don't care about watching TV on a 2" screen so pod
casts and such are not important to me. My Sansa is pretty old too but
it holds plenty of music. The SD card makes it virtually unlimited.
Any USB storage device looks like a disk drive to a PC. The Sansa
doesn't choke on other file types intermingled in the music, unlike a
lot of far more expensive removable media players (including the one
in my wife's Lincoln).
The $20 part really makes it attractive because losing it is no big
deal.

I don't put ANYTHING Apple on my computers, such as iTunes. Way too
invasive.