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A good Labor quote
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the
fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! |
A good Labor quote
On 9/5/2011 12:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:26:51 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:01:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! I hope that is not true because the US has embarked on a path of making money without expending any labor for the last 30 years. A significant part of the GDP is just "money making money" not people making things. A lot more is "robots making things" That is why we are in so much trouble. Industry accounts for about 25%, services about 75%, of GDP. Services are "intangible" products. I'm sure if you poke around here, you'll get more information: http://www.bea.gov/. Greg, you hit the nail on the head. DePlume, you are an excellent Googler. How did we ever manage without you? |
A good Labor quote
On Sep 4, 11:01*pm, Tim wrote:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! Same to you Tim...and thank you for your positive post. |
A good Labor quote
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A good Labor quote
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:44:15 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:21:23 -0400, Wayne B wrote: On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:26:51 -0400, wrote: A significant part of the GDP is just "money making money" not people making things. A lot more is "robots making things" Whether we like it or not, "robots making things" is here to stay. It's the logical extension of the industrial revolution and will have just as many socio-economic impacts as the first. With increasing miniaturization many of today's products could not be built without robotic assembly. The real question is who will design, build and service the robots. That's where the economic power will be, and it will not be done by the uneducated and technologically illiterate. The real problem is that 3 or 4 guys can keep a factory full of robots going that displaced 1000 assembly workers. The robot itself will be built in Asia. I got to watch a graphic example of this at the telephone office here in Naples There used to be 3 floors of clicky, clacky frames full of relays and switches. There were a dozen "frame hops" running around stringing wires to make changes and cleaning relays. There were wire trays stuffed with copper coming through the wall. That also supported an office floor of support people. A month later it was a small console.with one guy sitting there with his feet on the table drinking coffee. Over in one corner there were a few racks with a small bundle of fibers coming in. Most of the "support" was outsourced. I saw the same thing in computer rooms all over town. 58 IBM employees an a 2 story office complex were reduced to 3 guys working from home. We are simply getting a lot more work done with fewer workers. That does not bode well for "labor". So, training people for the high-tech jobs, the green jobs, the infrastructure jobs, that doesn't "bode well" for labor? Nonsense. |
A good Labor quote
On 04/09/2011 8:01 PM, Tim wrote:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! Trouble today is capital has no value. Zero rate interest. So no capital at work. I don't think Abraham Lincoln meant for capitalists to loose money so labor has jobs, or he would have been a Marxist like Obama. -- If it is all Bush's fault, then how come Obama is doing much more of the same and expecting different results? |
A good Labor quote
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 15:45:34 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:10:25 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:44:15 -0400, wrote: We are simply getting a lot more work done with fewer workers. That does not bode well for "labor". So, training people for the high-tech jobs, the green jobs, the infrastructure jobs, that doesn't "bode well" for labor? Nonsense. Training people for jobs that do not exist is not going to suddenly make the jobs appear. Please show me where I said "suddenly." So, you don't believe in the future, and thus we shouldn't plan for it? There is not much money in "fixing" robots and the controller is going to be a souped up PC. Not much to fix there either. Uh huh. So, maybe we can get some undocumented workers to do it, since you don't want to. Basically this business has been reduced to cutting open a box with chinese writing on it and plugging in a part. You don't make much money doing that and you don't need a lot of training. Current design criteria is to make a machine that doesn't need much maintenance and when it fails you replace FRUs, you don't "fix" it? How many car mechanics do you see these days? Have you even seen a TV repair shop? There used to be at least one mechanic in every gas station and a TV shop in every strip mall. Those jobs are gone. That is just a microcosm of what is happening everywhere. Not where I live. I also, however, don't think the solution is "a mechanic in every station." What is a "green job"? Cutting lawns? I suppose that will still be around. My wife put an ad on Craigs List for 2 $15/.hr "handy man" jobs. She had over 1000 responses. Look it up yourself. We need an immediate, short term job solution on the order of infrastructure jobs and make-work projects. This will have a highly stimulative effect on the economy, and other jobs will open up in support of that. Take the newly opened oil fields in Nebraska. Lots of secondary jobs have been generated. While it won't solve our energy problems of using too much oil, it's certainly boosting the local economy. |
A good Labor quote
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:39:12 -0600, Canuck57
wrote: On 04/09/2011 8:01 PM, Tim wrote: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! Trouble today is capital has no value. Zero rate interest. So no capital at work. I don't think Abraham Lincoln meant for capitalists to loose money so labor has jobs, or he would have been a Marxist like Obama. Trouble is that you're too stupid to understand basic economics. Obama = Marxist, Nazi, in cahoots with big business, born in Kenya (or is it Australia?), a Muslim/Christian extremist, and yes, you're an idiot. |
A good Labor quote
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A good Labor quote
On Sep 5, 6:56*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:44:15 -0400, wrote: I saw the same thing in computer rooms all over town. 58 IBM employees an a 2 story office complex were reduced to 3 guys working from home. We are simply getting a lot more work done with fewer workers. That does not bode well for "labor". === Things change and the world has to change with them and adapt. Ultimately the increased productivity and efficiency is good for the economy and everyone's standard of living. *It certainly does create some dislocations along the way for the buggy whip manufacturers however. * I spent many years as a manager at a highly automated IT operation. We still needed people, just not as many, and they did different things than in the past. * One of our running jokes was something like this: How many operations people do you need on third shift? Answer: *One operator and one dog. What does the dog do? He makes sure the operator doesn't touch anything... The old days of guys running around with racks full of mag tapes, boxes of line printer paper, *and carts full of punched cards are long gone. *Truth is that they weren't very good jobs anyway, just a stepping stone to something better. There will always be jobs for people with craft skills however: Machinists, Electronic prototypers, Technicians of all types, Cabinet makers, Mechanics, Framers, Roofers, Concrete workers, Brick layers, Stone workers, etc. *Those jobs don't automate very well and are just about impossible to export. Then there's people like me. I got tired of being laid off 33 years ago, so I made my own job. I'm not rich but I haven't been laid off since. |
A good Labor quote
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:31:59 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Sep 5, 6:56*pm, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:44:15 -0400, wrote: I saw the same thing in computer rooms all over town. 58 IBM employees an a 2 story office complex were reduced to 3 guys working from home. We are simply getting a lot more work done with fewer workers. That does not bode well for "labor". === Things change and the world has to change with them and adapt. Ultimately the increased productivity and efficiency is good for the economy and everyone's standard of living. *It certainly does create some dislocations along the way for the buggy whip manufacturers however. * I spent many years as a manager at a highly automated IT operation. We still needed people, just not as many, and they did different things than in the past. * One of our running jokes was something like this: How many operations people do you need on third shift? Answer: *One operator and one dog. What does the dog do? He makes sure the operator doesn't touch anything... The old days of guys running around with racks full of mag tapes, boxes of line printer paper, *and carts full of punched cards are long gone. *Truth is that they weren't very good jobs anyway, just a stepping stone to something better. There will always be jobs for people with craft skills however: Machinists, Electronic prototypers, Technicians of all types, Cabinet makers, Mechanics, Framers, Roofers, Concrete workers, Brick layers, Stone workers, etc. *Those jobs don't automate very well and are just about impossible to export. Then there's people like me. I got tired of being laid off 33 years ago, so I made my own job. I'm not rich but I haven't been laid off since. === You're a successful entrpreneur, a highly skilled profession by anyone's estimation, and in exactly the kind of job that can never be exported. It's hard to believe that someone with a down piece of farm equipment during harvest season would look overseas for help or dicker too strongly over price. You're making a good honest living and providing a valuable service at the same time. |
A good Labor quote
On 05/09/2011 6:24 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:26:51 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:01:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! I hope that is not true because the US has embarked on a path of making money without expending any labor for the last 30 years. A significant part of the GDP is just "money making money" not people making things. A lot more is "robots making things" That is why we are in so much trouble. I agree. There is plenty of capital in the US economy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of that wealth is held in the hands of a very few, who are hoarding it. True. But why invest it? Good chance you will loose it. Union or tax greed, unstable market, diminishing value of wages who is going to buy your product? Margins so thin, fleabaggers whining, better off to buy gold or just part the money. The stupid way to fix this is print more money. Well, that isn't right either, that isn't going to fix anything. Actually it feeds the problem. As inflation devalues peoples incomes from any source, they then acquire fewer goods. Fewer goods shipped, means fewer jobs. Yet GDP looks good as costs sneak up. GDP is dollar of made products, not quantity or a fixed value. The GDP is constantly being devalued with Bernanke fraud money print. The hard, but intelligent way to fix the economy is to return that money back to the hands of the people that would spend it and thereby fuel the economy. Yep, money spent by producers really fuels the economy. Doesn't get siphoned off for government bureaucracy or corruption either. Find politicians with enough balls to do that and you'll fix the economy. Otherwise, we'll continue talking foolishness about growing something that, for lack of nourishment, can't grow. Back to the basics, force borrowers to borrow real money, stop the inflationary money print, raise interest rates slowly to raise the earnings bars and investors will seek the opportunities and employ people. One could view zero rate interest as admitting the USD isn't worth holding. -- If it is all Bush's fault, then how come Obama is doing much more of the same and expecting different results? |
A good Labor quote
On Sep 5, 9:58*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:31:59 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Sep 5, 6:56 pm, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:44:15 -0400, wrote: I saw the same thing in computer rooms all over town. 58 IBM employees an a 2 story office complex were reduced to 3 guys working from home. We are simply getting a lot more work done with fewer workers. That does not bode well for "labor". === Things change and the world has to change with them and adapt. Ultimately the increased productivity and efficiency is good for the economy and everyone's standard of living. It certainly does create some dislocations along the way for the buggy whip manufacturers however. I spent many years as a manager at a highly automated IT operation. We still needed people, just not as many, and they did different things than in the past. One of our running jokes was something like this: How many operations people do you need on third shift? Answer: One operator and one dog. What does the dog do? He makes sure the operator doesn't touch anything... The old days of guys running around with racks full of mag tapes, boxes of line printer paper, and carts full of punched cards are long gone. Truth is that they weren't very good jobs anyway, just a stepping stone to something better. There will always be jobs for people with craft skills however: Machinists, Electronic prototypers, Technicians of all types, Cabinet makers, Mechanics, Framers, Roofers, Concrete workers, Brick layers, Stone workers, etc. Those jobs don't automate very well and are just about impossible to export. Then there's people like me. I got tired of being laid off 33 years ago, so I made my own job. I'm not rich but I haven't been laid off since. === You're a successful entrpreneur, a highly skilled profession by anyone's estimation, and in exactly the kind of job that can never *be exported. * It's hard to believe that someone with a down piece of farm equipment during harvest season would look overseas for help or dicker too strongly over price. *You're making a good honest living and providing a valuable service at the same time. Thanks Wayne, I do try, but what gets me is why there's not more people breaking out on their own instead of complaining because they supposedly can't find any work. |
A good Labor quote
|
A good Labor quote
In article ,
says... On 9/6/11 10:07 AM, wrote: On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:31:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Then there's people like me. I got tired of being laid off 33 years ago, so I made my own job. I'm not rich but I haven't been laid off since. I ended up doing the same thing and I went an entirely another way. I knew the computer hardware business was doomed by the mid 60s. They are not going to pay you much for swapping parts. I went with the electrical biz. I went out on my own in the late 1970's when the AAAA ad/pr agency I was working for was partially sold to a NY buyer who I thought was a shady operator. Turned out I was right. I had three clients the day I opened for business, and two of them are still active client. One of the three is an occasional client. Earned more than $200k my first year, which was just about what I was earning at the agency as a senior account exec. Yeah, everybody believes you.....NOT! |
A good Labor quote
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 22:53:35 -0600, Canuck57
wrote: On 05/09/2011 6:24 PM, wrote: On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:26:51 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:01:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." (Abraham Lincoln) Have a happy labor day weekend! I hope that is not true because the US has embarked on a path of making money without expending any labor for the last 30 years. A significant part of the GDP is just "money making money" not people making things. A lot more is "robots making things" That is why we are in so much trouble. I agree. There is plenty of capital in the US economy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of that wealth is held in the hands of a very few, who are hoarding it. True. But why invest it? Good chance you will loose it. Union or tax greed, unstable market, diminishing value of wages who is going to buy your product? Margins so thin, fleabaggers whining, better off to buy gold or just part the money. The stupid way to fix this is print more money. Well, that isn't right either, that isn't going to fix anything. Actually it feeds the problem. As inflation devalues peoples incomes from any source, they then acquire fewer goods. Fewer goods shipped, means fewer jobs. Yet GDP looks good as costs sneak up. GDP is dollar of made products, not quantity or a fixed value. The GDP is constantly being devalued with Bernanke fraud money print. The hard, but intelligent way to fix the economy is to return that money back to the hands of the people that would spend it and thereby fuel the economy. Yep, money spent by producers really fuels the economy. Doesn't get siphoned off for government bureaucracy or corruption either. Find politicians with enough balls to do that and you'll fix the economy. Otherwise, we'll continue talking foolishness about growing something that, for lack of nourishment, can't grow. Back to the basics, force borrowers to borrow real money, stop the inflationary money print, raise interest rates slowly to raise the earnings bars and investors will seek the opportunities and employ people. One could view zero rate interest as admitting the USD isn't worth holding. One could, but one would have to be an idiot, such as yourself. |
A good Labor quote
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A good Labor quote
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A good Labor quote
On 06/09/2011 4:56 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:59:57 -0400, wrote: I never had a clue that you were this clueless. Tim could be easily replaced by some Chinese factory producing starters and alternators for pennies on the dollar. Why do I need a repair when I can buy new for less? Because the repair is quicker/cheaper in many cases. No one can afford to stock sufficient inventory of obscure parts to make them instantly available, especially when the new part may cost thousands of dollars or be back ordered. However, a small shop like Tim's, dedicated to customer service, can offer same day or over night service in many cases. That's worth a lot to a guy with several thousand acres of corn or wheat to harvest before he misses the weather window. Agreed. If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. -- First rule of holes: If your in one, don't keep digging. So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt? |
A good Labor quote
On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:29:09 -0600, Canuck57
wrote: On 06/09/2011 4:56 PM, Wayne B wrote: On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:59:57 -0400, wrote: I never had a clue that you were this clueless. Tim could be easily replaced by some Chinese factory producing starters and alternators for pennies on the dollar. Why do I need a repair when I can buy new for less? Because the repair is quicker/cheaper in many cases. No one can afford to stock sufficient inventory of obscure parts to make them instantly available, especially when the new part may cost thousands of dollars or be back ordered. However, a small shop like Tim's, dedicated to customer service, can offer same day or over night service in many cases. That's worth a lot to a guy with several thousand acres of corn or wheat to harvest before he misses the weather window. Agreed. If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. You can't fix your stupidity and it's been 50+ years. |
A good Labor quote
|
A good Labor quote
On 9/6/2011 6:56 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:59:57 -0400, wrote: I never had a clue that you were this clueless. Tim could be easily replaced by some Chinese factory producing starters and alternators for pennies on the dollar. Why do I need a repair when I can buy new for less? Because the repair is quicker/cheaper in many cases. No one can afford to stock sufficient inventory of obscure parts to make them instantly available, especially when the new part may cost thousands of dollars or be back ordered. However, a small shop like Tim's, dedicated to customer service, can offer same day or over night service in many cases. That's worth a lot to a guy with several thousand acres of corn or wheat to harvest before he misses the weather window. You do know you are dealing with either JPS, or Harry/Plum right? These two never will understand that type of work, both are pencil pushers at best, never had to wait for a part or beat the weather... |
A good Labor quote
On Sep 6, 6:29*pm, Canuck57 wrote:
Agreed. *If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. *Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. Huh? |
A good Labor quote
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 19:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Sep 6, 6:29*pm, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. *If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. *Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. Huh? Obviously a guy who has never owned a *real* alternator. :-) http://www.ase-supply.com/Leece_Neville_4962PA_12V_320_amp_ALTERNATOR_p/ln-4962pa.htm |
A good Labor quote
On Sep 6, 10:36*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 19:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Sep 6, 6:29 pm, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. Huh? Obviously a guy who has never owned a *real* alternator. * :-) http://www.ase-supply.com/Leece_Neville_4962PA_12V_320_amp_ALTERNATOR... Let alone, worked on one... Hey Wayne, Don't you just love their "bargain" pricing? ?:^ 0 |
A good Labor quote
On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:29:09 -0600, Canuck57 wrote:
On 06/09/2011 4:56 PM, Wayne B wrote: On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:59:57 -0400, wrote: I never had a clue that you were this clueless. Tim could be easily replaced by some Chinese factory producing starters and alternators for pennies on the dollar. Why do I need a repair when I can buy new for less? Because the repair is quicker/cheaper in many cases. No one can afford to stock sufficient inventory of obscure parts to make them instantly available, especially when the new part may cost thousands of dollars or be back ordered. However, a small shop like Tim's, dedicated to customer service, can offer same day or over night service in many cases. That's worth a lot to a guy with several thousand acres of corn or wheat to harvest before he misses the weather window. Agreed. If you can't fix it in 5 minutes, replace it. Because if the brushes are shot, might as well avoid coming in next week for the bearings or windings. I'll guarandamntee you that wouldn't have worked with my Yamaha starter solenoid! |
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