Tim Ingram's address?
 

MikeSoja wrote:

First up: Presently, he's posting through Google-Groups, and they
take a dim view of obnoxious spamming.

Complaints should be sent to:


Be sure to include his full headers, and you might make reference
to:
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...html#advertise
and
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_terms.html

Second: He's dialing up via a Canadian branch of MCI, and they too
take a dim view of ignorant spammers. In fact, about the only rule
they have concerns Spam.
Their apparent abuse address is:
and their Acceptable Use Policy is at: http://global.mci.com/ca/aup/
Again, send complete headers in every complaint.

His websites are being hosted by other providers, but showing abuse
there gets a little more involved.

Aside from frequent posting (not all that much more than some people I
could mention), why do you call Tim a spammer? A**hole, perhaps, but
just because you don't like his ideas on safety, that doesn't make them
spam. He does not sell anything in the group, AFAICS, just gives his web
address. If we didn't already know he sells the things, nothing I've
seen in r.b.p would tell me he has a financial stake.

With some spammers and trolls the best thing to do is killfile them,
but past experience with Timmy shows that he only grows more
long-windedly obnoxious (if you can believe it), until his account
is terminated. Still, the less one speaks to him, or of him, or of
sponsons, the better.

You got that right. Please don't feed the sick puppy.

--
Yours for accuracy in comdemnations,

Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Tim Ingram's address?
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:17:05 -0500, Steve Cramer
posted:

snip

Aside from frequent posting (not all that much more than some people I
could mention), why do you call Tim a spammer? A**hole, perhaps, but
just because you don't like his ideas on safety, that doesn't make them
spam. He does not sell anything in the group, AFAICS, just gives his web
address. If we didn't already know he sells the things, nothing I've
seen in r.b.p would tell me he has a financial stake.

And yet he does have a financial stake, and when all else is said
and done, his only reason for being here is to drum up business for
his product. Otherwise he could say what he has to say once, and be
done with it.

I really don't want to talk about him. I like to think I had a hand
in getting rid of him last time and will work quietly to do the same
this time.

The group has been very enjoyable in the nearly three years he was
gone.

Mike Soja

Tim Ingram's address?
 

let's just say there's different opinion and let it go at that. Is the
last word that important?

Tim Ingram wrote:

Dear Mike:

You are exactly the kind of person who would try to sell rolls and
other deadly ideas to Girl Guides apparently. You would not want them
to have any chance to live.

Is it any wonder US Coast Guard report 071-01: "Canoes and kayaks have
by far the highest fatality rates per million hours of exposure (.42)
as any other boat type". (This figure may be far too low, considering
the death statistics of the Ford/Firestone scandal, over a similar
time frame, with many more vehicles, many, many more use/hours daily,
and only 200 deaths.)

"A total of 105 canoeists and kayakers drowned in 1998. Canoes and
kayaks have the highest fatality rate of all boat types ñ double the
rate of personal watercraft and 4 times higher than open motorboats."
(Before the Subcommittee on Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation of
the U.S. House of Representatives, May 15, 2001, BOAT/U.S.)

Or: "Looking at the first six months of each year, the number of
kayaks sold has decreased 50 percent from 12,502 in 2001 to 6,216 in
2003." (Paddler, Jan/Feb 2004, p.8, published by the ACA.)

The wider kayaks and "sit-on-tops", are by far the most popular types
of kayaks according to the National Marine Manufacturers Association,
over ten (10) times more popular than narrow or whitewater types,
(reflecting users' choices, who find narrower craft too unstable).
They are less deadly due to a wider beam. However if flooded, the
"recreational kayaks", unlike the equally popular "sit-on-tops", do
not have built-in sponsons. They cannot be pumped out due to the very
large cockpit opening. The victims die when they cannot get out of the
water (rate of body heat loss is 25 times the rate in air.) PFDs
cannot magically get them out. Furthermore, deaths indicate that the
"sit-on-top" types, that already have built-in sponsons, have
insufficient sponson buoyancy for most victims to rescue themselves
and not recapsize. (Sufficient sponson buoyancy is only possible
through "automatic inflating sponsons" on the USCG website.)

You are not only hurting sales of canoes and kayaks, you are hurting
scouts and girl guides. What have they done to hurt you?

Please have respect for the value of human life.

And don't be verbally abusive below. It just makes you look mean to
everyone.

Tim

PS:

For more understanding:

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html





MikeSoja wrote in message . ..


(Paddlec1) wrote in message ...





Who was it that posted Timmy's address last time he came around? And does
someone still have it?


If you want his real world address you'll most likely have to use
real world methods to locate it (unless the address on his web page
is accurate. ;-)

His e-addresses have all changed since May 2001, when his mentally
challenged virtual person was last removed from these groups. He
doesn't seem to have gotten any smarter in the last three years.

First up: Presently, he's posting through Google-Groups, and they
take a dim view of obnoxious spamming.

Complaints should be sent to:



Be sure to include his full headers, and you might make reference
to:

http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...html#advertise

and

http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_terms.html

Second: He's dialing up via a Canadian branch of MCI, and they too
take a dim view of ignorant spammers. In fact, about the only rule
they have concerns Spam.

Their apparent abuse address is:



and their Acceptable Use Policy is at:

http://global.mci.com/ca/aup/

Again, send complete headers in every complaint.

His websites are being hosted by other providers, but showing abuse
there gets a little more involved.

With some spammers and trolls the best thing to do is killfile them,
but past experience with Timmy shows that he only grows more
long-windedly obnoxious (if you can believe it), until his account
is terminated. Still, the less one speaks to him, or of him, or of
sponsons, the better.

Happy paddling!

Mike Soja

Tim Ingram's address?
 

Now this is an interesting Subject!

I just don't have time to really bother with these 2 newsgroups much.
They have self destructed through "macho" ego and truly remarkable
stupidity, for the most part. Almost no women posters! Why take the
time for a tiny readership who for the most part just want to make
canoes and kayaks as deadly as possible. It is no wonder that over 10
times as many wide sit on tops and recreational kayaks are sold. They
are more stable, and no-one needs to take expensive instruction from a
moron. Most instructors, (there are a few happy exceptions), are
incapable of complex thoughts. They have severe psychosexual needs to
gratify instead.

This newsgroup is obvious evidence!

Now there are several ways to play you remnants from here. For the
most part I am just documenting your predilictions for hate,
prejudice, threats of violence and harrassment, and outright
intentions of murder toward children. Just look at what some of you
have posted in the last few days!

I can use these posts in exactly the same way I would edit a
documentory interview with the Grand Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan. My
preference is humour! Read Jonathan Swift. Terrific. See Michael Moore
interview Charleton Heston in "Columbine"? Right. A litle clumsy.
Charleton could have been made to look a lot funnier, (for a truly
stupid jerk)!

There is an award winning film out now, "The Corporation",
interviewing Moore, Noam Chomsky, and others. Very good stuff!

However, the canoe and kayak industry has a corporate structure that
would make Himmler proud! Instead of trying to sell canoes and kayaks
with safety, they try to make things as dangerous as possible. Very
stupid and hateful people like the Klan, Nazis etc. get what they
deserve eventually. What the canoe and kayak industry gets is steadily
declining sales, with no-one wanting instruction from an idiot who
can't figure out the fallacies behind "Eskimo" rolls. (The Greenland
Champs need a powerboat close by!)

I am now trying to provoke the American Canoe Association into court.
But they are afraid of me. Just like some of you cannot prove that you
not are trying to kill kids. You see truth is not libel. And I want to
really study these remarkable hate crimes, as well as stop them fast.
Court is best. Second choice is satire. You just can't find a nastier
group of dumb-ass, deadly intentions toward the safety of innocent
citizens than here, on rbp!

These last few days posting here have been pure Swift. The satire
inherent in the postings makes my job very easy. And very funny (if
you forget how many dead victims, including kids.)

Read carefully, it is short and there are pictures for the literacy
program drop-outs:

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

Some day all of you may see exposure you never dreamed of, just from
participating in a hate group like RBP.

In closing, for all you "Klan" guys (few women are as stupid as you!),
from the above link: (See the pictures. Think about the judge and jury
in the swimming pool doing the same as the girls. And the Wrongful
Deaths Lawsuits!)

"These little girls can quickly rescue a half dozen adults from the
water, since the adults weigh just about the same as their immersed
volume in water. This canoe cannot sink totally flooded! Police and
other RESCUE PROFESSIONALS use sponsons to create devices that are
smaller and less mobile, to rescue victims in tricky water and ice
rescues. Canoes are superior rescue craft with proper self-rescue
sponsons: Paddled easily at 2 knots fully flooded, by 2 kids standing
up. Set the far sponson in the above picture properly (lower), and the
canoe is almost entirely self-bailing by leaning on one sponson!

Canoes (and kayaks too), can save many lives, not just kill! Why kill
1000 US citizens in 10 years? Who gains from those cruel and easily
preventable deaths?"

Oh, by the way, Answer:

A little money, remarkably little, can induce the ACA and other
instructors to steal money for deadly instruction that kills US
citizens. I just keep informing the USCG and Homeland Security that
not all of the killers are a long way off!

Tim



(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com...
(Paddlec1) wrote in message ...
Who was it that posted Timmy's address last time he came around? And does
someone still have it?

Probably, but what would that do? Don't you see what you guys have
done to the group with your intolerance of anything or anyone new?
Granted Tim is an idiot and in my opinion a self serving liar, but how
about the rest. I watched last season as you and a few others ripped
and high fived each other while you beat up on folks asking newbie
questions, asking about building a roofrack, asking about anything
else and then not taking your collective words as gospel, and I even
watched last fall as King Tut "W" wondered why there was not much
discussion in the group anymore. Could it be that folks don't like
having questions and opinions addressed with sarcasm and ego? As I
check in now I see 10 of the last 25 posts either looking for or
selling equipment. Even the guy with the full detailed description and
contact information just to ask where to "sell" a couple of kayaks, no
one is beating up on them. Now of course with no one to bully, most of
the bullies have moved on, probably to boatered, but they will be back
when they need to knock a few newbies around. You all did this to
yourselves, addressing folks like Tim in the first place and then
strutting when you whipped his ass... No big winner in that one...
Well, you wanted a toe the line equipment sales group, now you got
it...
Scotty
Scotty

Tim Ingram's Deadly Devices - avoid them like the plague
 

Gosh Tim,

Guess you haven't done much kayaking and canoeing. The hazards of kayaking
and canoeing depend heavily upon the recent rainfall. A Class 2 run, like on
the Main Eel in CA, can quickly become a heavy water Class 4 run overnight
with 20-30 foot standing waves. What happens to small friendly creeks in
hard rains is mindboggling. And not infrequently requires a minor miracle by
a brave companion for rescue.

Sponsons don't even begin to address the problems. A kayak whose sprayskirt
has popped in such circumstances becomes an unmanueverable log, best left to
its own devices by anyone who wants to survive to recover the kayak later -
pushed ashore by a hardworking companion farther downriver. Canoing in big
water is just plain crazy.

Kayaking is believed to be the second-most dangerous sport after vertical
rock climbing. (Only God knows where to rate the crazy snowboarders.) After
10 years of kayaking, 50 weekends (100 days) per year, I was amazed that we
had had no deaths in our groups. I tended to thank the river gods often for
being so forgiving of our reckless behavior.

I'm sure that you have a garage-full of useless sponsons that you would like
to palm off on some naive boaters. Curse you - for you will probably make
them feel safer than they should. Your useless gadget will cause more deaths
than it will prevent.

John Adams


"Tim Ingram" wrote in message
...
Dear Mike:

You are exactly the kind of person who would try to sell rolls and
other deadly ideas to Girl Guides apparently. You would not want them
to have any chance to live.

Is it any wonder US Coast Guard report 071-01: "Canoes and kayaks have
by far the highest fatality rates per million hours of exposure (.42)
as any other boat type". (This figure may be far too low, considering
the death statistics of the Ford/Firestone scandal, over a similar
time frame, with many more vehicles, many, many more use/hours daily,
and only 200 deaths.)

Vast snip!!

Tim Ingram's address?
 

Tim Ingram's address?
 

Gordon Niessen wrote:

Don't make threats, it is not appropriate in any civilized discussion.

While I agree with your sentiment, since when is any discussion
involving that whackjob Timmy civilized?

Tim Ingram's address?
 

I've told you guys. Now the beast has woken!

Tim Ingram wrote:
Dear PaddleWreck:

This is a study, and I use responses like yours to investigate the
psychology of making canoes and kayaks as dangerous as possible.

The US Coast Guard BARD stats show that almost all dead victims (about
a hundred yearly) with a range of 115 to 78 over the past 5 years,
struggle on the surface for variable times, they don't sink
immediately without a PFD. (See lifesaving stations on most city
waterfronts. Most people are not wearing a PFD for a stroll, and the
world lifesaving standard is some buoyant device, like a canoe with
"automatic inflating sponsons.") There are some years when many more
dead are wearing PFDs (2000)and other years (1999) when there are
fewer dead but more of these dead are not wearing PFDs.

The interesting thing is how easily canoes and kayaks can be made
extremely safe. Safer than any other craft in fact; since sponsons are
used by RESCUE PROFESSIONALS for Rescue Devices used in tricky water
and ice rescues. But a canoe as shown in

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

Or just Google "us coast guard canoe kayak safety" for the page,

has far more speed, mobility and capacity, demonstrated by 2 little
girls, 7 and 10.

Now PaddleWreck, you want to make kids as unsafe as possible, and
anyone else, apparently. Of course the World Champs at the Annual
Greenland Rolling Championships use a busy powerboat to rescue all the
champs who miss their roll. (Of course they miss their paddlefloat too
since almost all propaganda says rolls are more reliable than
paddlefloats! Check the book link above too: "Canoe and Kayak Scam
Kills 1000 Americans: US Coast Guard Studies Device to Save Victims"
This "bait and switch" scam, killing 1000 Americans in a decade, is
circular and obvious: There is always a "Back-up" to the "deadly
rescue" that just failed, the "deadly rescue" was supposed to be the
back-up for the "back-up.") Easy to kill people!

US Coast Guard report 071-01: "Canoes and kayaks have by far the
highest fatality rates per million hours of exposure (.42) as any
other boat type". (This figure may be far too low, considering the
death statistics of the Ford/Firestone scandal, over a similar time
frame, with many more vehicles, many, many more use/hours daily, and
only 200 deaths.)

"A total of 105 canoeists and kayakers drowned in 1998. Canoes and
kayaks have the highest fatality rate of all boat types ñ double the
rate of personal watercraft and 4 times higher than open motorboats."
(Before the Subcommittee on Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation of
the U.S. House of Representatives, May 15, 2001, BOAT/U.S.)

The wider kayaks and "sit-on-tops", are by far the most popular types
of kayaks according to the National Marine Manufacturers Association,
over ten (10) times more popular than narrow or whitewater types,
(reflecting users' choices, who find narrower craft too unstable).
They are less deadly due to a wider beam. However if flooded, the
"recreational kayaks", unlike the equally popular "sit-on-tops", do
not have built-in sponsons. They cannot be pumped out due to the very
large cockpit opening. The victims die when they cannot get out of the
water (rate of body heat loss is 25 times the rate in air.) PFDs
cannot magically get them out. Furthermore, deaths indicate that the
"sit-on-top" types, that already have built-in sponsons, have
insufficient sponson buoyancy for most victims to rescue themselves
and not recapsize. (Sufficient sponson buoyancy is only possible
through "automatic inflating sponsons" on the USCG website.)

In Canada, the death rate is much higher than the US, thanks to the
Canadian Coast Guard covering up a study by a Canadian Search and
Rescue Officer who found exactly the same sponson safety reported by
the US Military Special Forces Kayaking Study (10th Airborne) in 1994.
Result: About 500 Canadian canoe and kayak deaths.

This study and others will stand with "Hitler's Willing Executioners"
and Milgram's studies at Yale, regarding the darker aspects of
humanity. You simply have no other instances of such a high death
rate, easily remedied, by such a small "murder cult". I repeat what I
stated in the above link: "There is plenty of "macho" ego, regarding
instruction that no judge or jury can accomplish. There are however,
plentiful arguments that the victims deserved to die, as a Darwinian
perspective."

Tim


(Paddlec1) wrote in message ...

Who was it that posted Timmy's address last time he came around? And does
someone still have it?

Tim Ingram's address?
 

lcopps wrote:
I've told you guys. Now the beast has woken!

Two things:

1) Don't give him credit by calling him a "beast". He's just an idiot.

2) You can dramatically reduce the waste of bandwidth by not quoting his
diatribe.

Tim Ingram's address?
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Gordon Niessen wrote:

Don't make threats, it is not appropriate in any civilized discussion.

While I agree with your sentiment, since when is any discussion
involving that whackjob Timmy civilized?

You are mistaken, sir! There is no such thing as a 'discussion' with the
sick puppy. There is only feeding the sick puppy, and having it puke all
over you.

The best civilized course of action is to not feed the sick puppy. Please!

John Kuthe...