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why paddles matter - or do they?
Hi everybody,
I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really important and that often when people are having a bad experience with their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible. I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and heavy. But then, I am 6.2 220lbs and I *enjoy* the efffort. For me, going for three hours against the wind and the tide is simply great fun. My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Thanks! |
why paddles matter - or do they?
andrei wrote:
My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Depends on what problem your wife is having. Cheaper paddles are generally heavier and holding up the extra weight can be quite tiring on a longer trip, especially for a smaller, lighter paddler. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
"Peter" wrote in message news:04sub.236885$Tr4.697183@attbi_s03... andrei wrote: My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Depends on what problem your wife is having. Cheaper paddles are generally heavier and holding up the extra weight can be quite tiring on a longer trip, especially for a smaller, lighter paddler. They also tend to have blade shapes that don't do a very effective job of preventing flutter in the water and they can tend to want to slip one way or another. Also leading to fatique and just being a pain in the butt in general. Cheaper blades that are made of non reinforced thermoplastics tend to bend a lot in the water, putting the energy of the paddler's stroke into bending the paddle rather than moving the kayak forward. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
andrei wrote:
My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? That higher-priced $89 paddle might be the Carlisle RS, which is a big improvement over the flat-blade or spoon-blade $30 Carlisle in terms of weight, flex-feel, feather, and blade design. Most other $90 paddles are not very good. The Carlisle RS is made in New Zealand and is currently a screaming bargain. I reviewed it here about a week ago. Above the Carlisle RS you have to spend over $200 and I'm increasingly of the opinion that it's not worth the extra cash for most paddlers, perhaps even myself. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
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why paddles matter - or do they?
andrei wrote:
So what I would be looking for is reccomendations for a better paddle for my wife KEEPING IN MIND THAT SHE WILL STAY WITH HER CURRENT KAYAK FOR THE TIME BEING. I mean - is the Tarpon 100 too sluggish to improve on it anyway and are better paddles only for more advanced kayaks - or might there be a *reasonably price* (ABSOLUTE MAX 100 dollars) paddle which would *significantly* improve the kayaking experience for my wife? (or does the Tarpon 100 make the purchase of a better paddle a useless endeavor?) I doubt anyone here can really give you a good answer since we don't know what's making your wife unhappy about the Carlisle that she's using now. If she's getting tired from the effort of holding a heavy paddle, then sure, investing in a lighter one will probably be worthwhile (that's why I first upgraded my paddle). OTOH, maybe the length isn't quite right for her - in that case the most important thing would be to get one of the right length. Some people prefer smaller blades for a smoother feel while paddling and others like the immediate grip in the water of larger blades - again, we don't know what your wife may prefer. Isn't there some kayak store in your area that's on the water so you could go there with your boats and have your wife try a few different paddles? I expect she'd be able to determine pretty quickly if an upgrade would result in more enjoyable paddling. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
(andrei) writes:
[snip] Thank you all for the most interesting advice. Right now, our kayaking budget is pretty much exhausted with two Tarpon 100s. With time, and experience, we will both probably look into the purchase of better, more efficient, faster and better tracking kayaks. But right now we are stuck with Tarpon 100s. In my case, I am happy with it (-: at least for the time being :-). So what I would be looking for is reccomendations for a better paddle for my wife KEEPING IN MIND THAT SHE WILL STAY WITH HER CURRENT KAYAK FOR THE TIME BEING. I mean - is the Tarpon 100 too sluggish to improve on it anyway and are better paddles only for more advanced kayaks - or might there be a *reasonably price* (ABSOLUTE MAX 100 dollars) paddle which would *significantly* improve the kayaking experience for my wife? (or does the Tarpon 100 make the purchase of a better paddle a useless endeavor?) Yes. No. Maybe. If I told you over the internet what pair of basketball shoes, and what size, would work better for you in your playground pickup games, would you believe me? You shouldn't. Your wife should try some paddles in your price range and see if she thinks any of them are any better. If she can't find anything better in your absolute max 100 dollars, then that settles that. I will warn you, however, that if someone is having to struggle to paddle their boat, if they just doggedly keep at it, IMO there's a better than average chance that they'll develop a repetitive injury in the wrist, shoulder or elbow that can be functionally disabling -- not just for kayaking but for many other life activities. You're the best judge of what you can't afford money-wise, but think about what else you can't afford. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
Peter wrote in message news:QRDub.184415$9E1.989642@attbi_s52...
andrei wrote: So what I would be looking for is reccomendations for a better paddle for my wife KEEPING IN MIND THAT SHE WILL STAY WITH HER CURRENT KAYAK FOR THE TIME BEING. I mean - is the Tarpon 100 too sluggish to improve on it anyway and are better paddles only for more advanced kayaks - or might there be a *reasonably price* (ABSOLUTE MAX 100 dollars) paddle which would *significantly* improve the kayaking experience for my wife? (or does the Tarpon 100 make the purchase of a better paddle a useless endeavor?) I doubt anyone here can really give you a good answer since we don't know what's making your wife unhappy about the Carlisle that she's using now. If she's getting tired from the effort of holding a heavy paddle, then sure, investing in a lighter one will probably be worthwhile (that's why I first upgraded my paddle). OTOH, maybe the length isn't quite right for her - in that case the most important thing would be to get one of the right length. Some people prefer smaller blades for a smoother feel while paddling and others like the immediate grip in the water of larger blades - again, we don't know what your wife may prefer. Isn't there some kayak store in your area that's on the water so you could go there with your boats and have your wife try a few different paddles? I expect she'd be able to determine pretty quickly if an upgrade would result in more enjoyable paddling. Hi, She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was getting tired fairly rapidly. It was me who was looking at the paddle change option (since we cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help her. As for shops, there are a couple of shops around here, but they main interest is *selling* rather than finding a cheap solution. They position is: sure, get a better paddle. And I am left wondering "is this worth the 100 extra dollars". Anyway - thank you all for your inputs! Cheers |
why paddles matter - or do they?
(andrei) writes:
[snip] She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was getting tired fairly rapidly. It was me who was looking at the paddle change option (since we cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help her. As for shops, there are a couple of shops around here, but they main interest is *selling* rather than finding a cheap solution. They position is: sure, get a better paddle. And I am left wondering "is this worth the 100 extra dollars". Not knowing the stores you're talking about, I can't say. However, I don't think that a paddling store should automatically be castigated for resisting what you, an admitted newbie to the sport, see as a "cheap solution". They might agree with you on the "cheap" part, but disagree on the "solution" part -- $100 that you spend on the wrong thing is $100 wasted; so's $30 spent on the wrong thing, for that matter. And paddling stores ought to be concerned whenever a customer's emphasis is on "cheap, cheap, cheap" -- and not just about their bottom line. You can paddle with a crappy paddle; it might injure you to do so (see previous post), but it won't be fatal. But there are other kinds of paddling gear decisions where the insistence on "cheap" could kill you -- for example, if you decide you can't afford a decent PFD, or proper clothing, or a boat whose handling capabilities are sufficient for the conditions in which you plan to paddle. Again, I don't know the stores you're talking about, and I sure wasn't standing at your elbow when you went shopping. But paddling stores aren't the same as your local big-box electronics store, so if they're steering you towards a more expensive item, you probably ought to at least listen to what they say without assuming that their only concern is the price tag. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
John Fereira wrote:
BTW, the only paddle I've ever broken was one of those $30 carlisles. Not to defend the $30 Carlisle kayak paddles, because they are awful, but I have seen all types of paddles break. I tore the fiberglass matrix of a Harmony Perception on some volcanic rocks. Werners used to crack at the joint between shaft and paddle. Lightning shafts are vulnerable where they are compressed into an oval. Graphite blades sometimes shatter from impact with rocks, but are more often lost because the black color makes them difficult to see. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
andrei wrote:
She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was getting tired fairly rapidly. She will get stronger with practice. You could tow her when she needs a rest (this is what I do with my kids). It was me who was looking at the paddle change option (since we cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help her. A lighter paddle of correct length with a more-ideal feather angle might help. The $30 Carlisle paddles used to have a choice of only 0 or 90 degree feather, which is terrible. Most experienced paddlers prefer feather angles somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees. Length should be sufficient to reach the water on both sides of your boat without a lot of torso rotation. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
Bill Tuthill wrote in message
The $30 Carlisle paddles used to have a choice of only 0 or 90 degree feather, which is terrible. Most experienced paddlers prefer feather angles somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees. Actually you can tweak the Carlisle paddles to almost any degree of feather you want. Just have someone sit on one end while you forcefully rotate the other end. I agree that either a 0 or a 90 degree feather is pretty bad. I also agree that a good paddle is a worth while investment..... but.... I would also check that she is paddling correctly. Most beginners try to paddle with their arms rather than their torso. Your torso is MUCH stronger. Make sure she is rotating her body with each stroke. This is an area where a little time spent with an instructor or just another experienced paddler could reap some real benifits. You might also consider getting one of the instructional videos that deal with the forward stroke. "The Kayaker's Edge" comes to mind but it deals mostly with whitewater. My guess is that knowing how to do a proper forward paddle stroke will have more immediate benifits for both of you than upgrading your paddle. Randy |
why paddles matter - or do they?
andrei ) writes:
She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was getting tired fairly rapidly. It was me who was looking at the paddle change option (since we cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help her. As for shops, there are a couple of shops around here, but they main interest is *selling* rather than finding a cheap solution. They position is: sure, get a better paddle. And I am left wondering "is this worth the 100 extra dollars". I would not spend more money on another paddle for your wife. If you tie one end of a rope to the back of your kayak and the other end to the front of your wife's kayak she will be much happier with her paddle, and you will get even more enjoyment out of your paddling. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
why paddles matter - or do they?
"Dave Van" wrote in message link.net...
"Peter" wrote in message news:04sub.236885$Tr4.697183@attbi_s03... andrei wrote: My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Depends on what problem your wife is having. Cheaper paddles are generally heavier and holding up the extra weight can be quite tiring on a longer trip, especially for a smaller, lighter paddler. They also tend to have blade shapes that don't do a very effective job of preventing flutter in the water and they can tend to want to slip one way or another. Also leading to fatique and just being a pain in the butt in general. Cheaper blades that are made of non reinforced thermoplastics tend to bend a lot in the water, putting the energy of the paddler's stroke into bending the paddle rather than moving the kayak forward. Which is not always all that bad. I had a very cheap plastic paddle for a while (I am a real newbie with less than 50 paddling trips, day trips at that). It was a little short and hard, with a bad shape and it really sucked. I went ahead and took some Black Walnut I had and some Maple for the blades and made a paddle 240cm. I did some research before shaping the blades too. Looked real hard at Jimistix website for this. This thing is pretty heavy but also very flexable. I don't seem to have problems holding it up for a day though. If you put one end on the ground and push the middle of the paddle, it will easily flex almost 2 inches (5cm). Yes, you spend a lot of energy "bending" the paddle during the stroke but if you hold the end of the stroke for a beat, you get it back. The biggest thing is for me, this is much more comfortable. A little longer than maybe it should be for my size, with a good size head, the softness and round entry on the head makes for a very comfortable stroke. I do all flat water and am in no partucular hurry most of the time. My neighbor picked up a carbon paddle this season, I did not get to ask him how his shoulders are doing but my concern, with all the joint problems I seem to have was a real soft entry and easy on the shoulder. So for me a flex paddle changed things for me and eliminated sore shoulders, even if I do lose a little top end speed. In the case of the origional poster, I suggest two things. Get your wife a better boat, or let her slow down to her own pace instead of chasing you while you "go into a headwind for three hours". I have also found that a long teather to my 9yo when things get a little snippy is really not such a bad idea. Helps her steer, gives her a little break from full force paddling, makes her day a lot nicer all together. Scotty |
why paddles matter - or do they?
Building light, comfortable paddles using wood and epoxy isn't difficult.
I've done three so far - takes about 6-8 hours, and costs less than $25 Cdn. If anyone wants info on how to do it, feel free to drop me an 'e' - -- " You Shouldn't Have Joined If You Can't Take A Joke" Royal Navy Axiom Replace vk1nf with rhayes to reply "andrei" wrote in message om... Hi everybody, I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really important and that often when people are having a bad experience with their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible. I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and heavy. But then, I am 6.2 220lbs and I *enjoy* the efffort. For me, going for three hours against the wind and the tide is simply great fun. My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Thanks! |
why paddles matter - or do they?
"VK1NF" wrote in message news:61bvb.14105$f7.707188@localhost...
Building light, comfortable paddles using wood and epoxy isn't difficult. I've done three so far - takes about 6-8 hours, and costs less than $25 Cdn. If anyone wants info on how to do it, feel free to drop me an 'e' - -- " You Shouldn't Have Joined If You Can't Take A Joke" Royal Navy Axiom Replace vk1nf with rhayes to reply "andrei" wrote in message om... Hi everybody, I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really important and that often when people are having a bad experience with their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible. I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and heavy. But then, I am 6.2 220lbs and I *enjoy* the efffort. For me, going for three hours against the wind and the tide is simply great fun. My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? Thanks! The paddle is the thing you hold the full time you are on the water. I have never bought a $100.00 paddle. They are all more expensive. When I am not on the water I am wishing I were. If you hit a pond once every couple of weeks and cover little distance, anything will do. If you do 25 + KM the odd day that nice light paddle is a great thing. If I were artistic or handy I would make my own wooden paddle , but I am neither. A rescue line to the bow of her boat for a little tug to help her along may be a great idea. Make sure you have a quick release from your rescue line, if possible from both you and her. I have no idea of the environment you are paddling in , but a good paddle is a joy. Enjoy a great sport Alex |
why paddles matter - or do they?
For me, getting a better paddle has made paddling more enjoyable. However
what has made the most difference was improving my forward stroke. I was having a hard time with paddling fla****er due to poor technique. Watching Brent Rietz' Forward Stroke Clinic video was a real difference maker for me. I incorporated his ideas with what was comfortable for me. Before, I was constantly having to rest my tired arms. Now with proper torso rotation I can paddle all day. So, yes a paddle can make a difference, but perhaps you should look at technique first. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
(andrei) wrote in
om: John Fereira wrote in message ... (andrei) wrote in om: Hi everybody, I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really important and that often when people are having a bad experience with their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible. I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and heavy. And many experienced kayakers, by definition, are able to make that determination due to their experiences paddling 10' recreational kayaks with heavy, inexpensive paddle and then comparing it to paddling 17-18' composite kayaks with paddles costing $200-$300 (and more). While you feel your kayak may track fine and be fast, you can't really know how well it tracks and how fast it is unless you've compared it to a "real" touring kayak. My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing? Yes, and $90 is still very low in the price range for a kayak paddle. I'm not suggesting that you go out and buy a $350-$400 carbon fiber paddle, but if you think you're going to be participating in this sport for a long time it might be worth spending a bit more. Someday you might want to upgrade on your boat (or add to an existing fleet). A decent paddle can last a long time. BTW, the only paddle I've ever broken was one of those $30 carlisles. I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife? I suggest that you try a decent paddle and decide for yourself. I'm betting it will take all of five minutes for you or your wife to be sold on it. If you can't find one to borrow or rent just go to a good kayak shop and pick up a few paddles and you'll feel the difference. Thank you all for the most interesting advice. Right now, our kayaking budget is pretty much exhausted with two Tarpon 100s. With time, and experience, we will both probably look into the purchase of better, more efficient, faster and better tracking kayaks. But right now we are stuck with Tarpon 100s. In my case, I am happy with it (-: at least for the time being :-). Nothing wrong with that. The important thing is that you're on the water, gaining experience, and enjoying it. So what I would be looking for is reccomendations for a better paddle for my wife KEEPING IN MIND THAT SHE WILL STAY WITH HER CURRENT KAYAK FOR THE TIME BEING. I think you may have missed my point somewhat. It sounds like you like kayaking and intend to keep doing it for as long as you enjoy it. If you're going to be in for it for the long haul, investing a little more in a paddle or other piece of equipment that may last you many years is worth it if the alternative is saving a bit now, only to have to replace it in a year. I haven't been paddling as long as some here (only 7 years) but I've seen how fast beginning kayaker can "grow out of" their first boat or paddle. In my case, I owned my first kayak for three weeks before I tried a few quality boats and started shopping for a new one. I mean - is the Tarpon 100 too sluggish to improve on it anyway and are better paddles only for more advanced kayaks - A better paddle isn't going to improve an inexensive kayak any more than it will improve an advanced boat. It will, however improve the paddler. All the advice about improving the technique is good, but the comments about the weight of the $30 paddle and the shape of the blades causing flutter make paddling with that $30 paddle more difficult and more tiring than paddling with a lighter paddle with better blades. or might there be a *reasonably price* (ABSOLUTE MAX 100 dollars) paddle which would *significantly* improve the kayaking experience for my wife? (or does the Tarpon 100 make the purchase of a better paddle a useless endeavor?) I haven't tried that $90 Carlisle paddle that Bill mentioned but most $100 paddles are, IMHO, still bottom of the line. However, $100 might buy you a used fiberglass shaft and blade paddle like a Werner Camano, Swift, or Lightning Std. Six years ago I paid $200 for a used Camano and a Lightning standard, and when I'm not using my greenland paddle I still use that lightning paddle. It sounds like you don't have a lot of money in your kayaking equipment budget so a good option may be to build a wood paddle, or stretch your budget as much as you feel comfortable. BTW, there are only 30 more shopping days until Christmas. |
why paddles matter - or do they?
Bill Tuthill wrote in
: John Fereira wrote: BTW, the only paddle I've ever broken was one of those $30 carlisles. Not to defend the $30 Carlisle kayak paddles, because they are awful, but I have seen all types of paddles break. I tore the fiberglass matrix of a Harmony Perception on some volcanic rocks. Werners used to crack at the joint between shaft and paddle. Lightning shafts are vulnerable where they are compressed into an oval. As I wrote earlier I've got a Lightning Std that I bought used six years ago. The blades have a few small chips in them (nothing worth worrying about) and the fiberglass ferrule is getting a bit loose (something I'll fix this winter) but it's still going strong. I sold the Werner Camano I bought at the same time as the Lightning last year. The ferrule was also a bit loose on that one but a bit of epoxy resin and some sandpaper fixed it. I sold it for $90. In any case, I was only relating my experience with the Carlisle paddles and am well aware no paddle is indestructible. Graphite blades sometimes shatter from impact with rocks, but are more often lost because the black color makes them difficult to see. You're primarily a whitewater paddler, aren't you? If someone were to lose a paddle while paddling a touring boat they're likely in a lot more trouble than being out the cost of the paddle. It's just a guess but I bet most broken touring paddles happen are related to trying to do something with the paddle other than actually paddling. |
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