building wooden kayak costs?
 

My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Sue Goddard wrote in :

My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

My strip boat ended up costing me $750 to build and I milled all my own
strips. If I had bought pre-milled strips it would have been much closer to
$1000, if not more.

CLC also sells plans for most of their models. You can search around for
marine grade mahogany but I doubt that you'll be able to build one for under
$300. You could cut corners and use a lesser quality plywood but it's
generally not recommended. In any case, there's not a look of woodworking
in building a stitch-n-glue boat if you build from a kit. It's more like
putting together a large model.


Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

If you just want a boat to paddle you can cut corners by buying inexpensive
wood (assuming that it's available in your area). I talked with someone
awhile back that used a cheap wood, but he painted the whole boat. He
claimed he was able to build it for under $300. I spent almost $200 on
fiberglass cloth, epoxy resin, varnish, and various outfitting pieces.

Your best bet might be to look at building a skin-on-frame boat. There are
lots of free plans available (check issues of Sea Kayaker mag.) or there are
several books (Chris Cunninghams is a good one) on the subject. The
woodworking shop will come in handy for building the frame.

What's he go to do for a paddle, PDF, and sprayskirt. $300 for just those
items is not really exhorbiant.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

CLC also sells plans for most of their models.

I looked at that, but it seemed that if you bought the cockpit and other
pieces that sounded "necessary", that you were up in the $600 range
anyway. But I haven't looked into it very carefully.

claimed he was able to build it for under $300. I spent almost $200 on
fiberglass cloth, epoxy resin, varnish, and various outfitting pieces.

That's about what we're figuring out, which is pretty discouraging.

Your best bet might be to look at building a skin-on-frame boat.

I'll look into it; thanks.

What's he go to do for a paddle, PDF, and sprayskirt. $300 for just those
items is not really exhorbiant.

He has a good PFD from his canoeing experiences and shouldn't need a
sprayskirt for the flat rivers we usually paddle. We have a cheap
paddle that we use in the canoe, and that will have to suffice until I
learn how to build one, or we find a good deal on a used one.

Thanks for the input... keep it coming!

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

A hearty second for the SOF idea! :-)
SOF boats are not only light and very beautiful, they're inexpensive
to build, require fewer expensive tools, and are faster to build than
most other types of construction.


This sounds good, and I've just ordered the book. But I have a
concern.... just how durable is a fabric boat? We live HOURS from the
sea, and this boat will be used on rivers which, come August, are
sometimes pretty shallow. They're flat, yes, and in a good year (like
this one) it's not a problem, but in a typical year there can be many
bony spots. Wouldn't one sharp rock put an end to the paddling until
repairs can be made?

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Melissa wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:45:02 GMT, Sue Goddard wrote:



But I have a concern.... just how durable is a fabric boat?



Hi Sue,

They can be remarkably durable. I know people who routinely grind
their skin boats over oyster shells and bump them into rocks, and
while they will get some scratches and gouges in the coating, in most
cases, the skin itself isn't damaged. The frames are really strong as
well.

Damage is always possible, but in relatively normal usage, probably
no more so than punching a hole or crack in a glass or wooden boat.
For the type of water you're expecting, I shouldn't think you'd have
much of a problem at all with catastrophic damage.

You can also get different weights and types of skin (nylon, canvas,
polyester). The heavier weights will naturally be more resistent to
incidental damage than the lighter ones, but the lighter ones are
quite good anyway.


The more rugged fabrics (13 & 16 ounce polyester) and coatings (Gaco
UA-7000) tend to be a pricy, but you can still keep the cost to under
$300. If you don't have to buy all the stock for building the frame, you
could easily do it for under $200.

I would suggest that you look into the books by Morris and Starr, in
addition to Cunningham's book. Morris' construction is simpler and
faster. Starr's is probably the most foolproof. Cunningham's is
beautiful and strong, but the most complex. All three will produce a
good boat. Bill Low's skinning method is the best I've seen for the
heavier polyester fabrics.

If you're interested, I've got some SOF construction photos at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom

--
Regards

Brian

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Sue,
Stitch-n-glue is both the cheapest and the quickest way to build, in
my opinion.

Chris Kulzycki (sp?) (former owner of CLC) has written a couple of
books on building your own kayak and canoe and the books even include
the plans for several different boats. If you use cheaper plywood
than marine-grade mahogany you should easily be able to get a decent
boat built for less than $300. Many folks will be adamant about using
the expensive marine-grade ply, but I'd rather be able to build a boat
that I can afford, rather than have no boat at all.

Try www.raka.com for the cheapest epoxy. I used it throughout
construction of my 21' Tolman Skiff and it's been going offshore for
the past 4 years without any problem.

If you're interested in building a cheap canoe instead of a kayak,
grab some tools and you can follow along with me on my project after
Christmas.

Feel free to drop me a line via e-mail if I can help in any way.

Regards,
Tom A.
Cedar Point, NC

Sue Goddard wrote in message ...
My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Anybody know any good designs for a Tandem skin on Frame? What kind of
tools are required?

Geoff

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Geoff Jennings wrote:

Anybody know any good designs for a Tandem skin on Frame? What kind of
tools are required?



Tandem baidarkas are not unusual, but I've never heard of any tandem
Greenland kayaks. David Zimmerly's book "Qayaq has two-hole baidarka
drawings and dimensions in it. Any of the native boats can be built
using nothing but basic hand tools. Remember, they were originally built
with nothing more than stone and bone tools.

--
Regards

Brian

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Sue Goddard wrote in :


CLC also sells plans for most of their models.

I looked at that, but it seemed that if you bought the cockpit and
other pieces that sounded "necessary", that you were up in the $600
range anyway. But I haven't looked into it very carefully.

claimed he was able to build it for under $300. I spent almost $200
on fiberglass cloth, epoxy resin, varnish, and various outfitting
pieces.

That's about what we're figuring out, which is pretty discouraging.

Your best bet might be to look at building a skin-on-frame boat.

I'll look into it; thanks.

What's he go to do for a paddle, PDF, and sprayskirt. $300 for just
those items is not really exhorbiant.

He has a good PFD from his canoeing experiences and shouldn't need a
sprayskirt for the flat rivers we usually paddle. We have a cheap
paddle that we use in the canoe, and that will have to suffice until I
learn how to build one, or we find a good deal on a used one.

If he's going to paddle a wood or skin-on-frame boat building traditional
greenland paddle would be a good idea, and very inexpensive.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Sue Goddard wrote in message ...
My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

A stitch and tape would be cheaper and now that decent plywood is down
in price, you can with a little patience build a nice S+T boat. Try
looking at this boat:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buil...GluePlans.html
Note that the designer and builders say this is a difficult build for
the first timer, you already have wood experience and I don't see why
a first timer in that positition could not have a successful build.
This might not be the boat you are looking for, but there are plenty
out there.
If you have any questions about S+T materials, techniques, which boat
to build, etc, you may give me a call days (the number is on my
website) or contact via email at smallboats.com.
Scotty from or course, SmallBoats.com.. I also have a fla****er S+T
canoe/kayak you might want to look at.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Sue Goddard wrote
My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300.

Hi Sue,

One thing I am suprised no one mentioned is looking for used boats.
Unless you are really set on building your own, you can probably find
a used boat in your son's price range. I'd suggest contacting your
local paddling clubs, and looking at yard sales and estate sales.

I have a friend who developed horrible arthritis, and he ended up
selling off all his boats for a fraction of what they are worth
(sorry, they're all sold now). In cases like that, you can also work
out a bargain with the paddler, because more often than not they will
be proud to help someone enter the sport even if they themselves can
no longer enjoy it. When my grandfather passed away, my grandmother
virtually gave his boat away to a kid who she believed would enjoy it
as much as he did. I personally just sold my ex's boat for half of
what it is worth, because I did not want to look at it anymore.

Boats bought this way will also often include the paddle, PFD, skirt
and other goodies. It's also environmentally friendly because you are
you are recycling someones old boat.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Eric gives good advice here.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Eric gives good advice here.

I understand the appeal of used boats. But I live in an area where
fla****er/sea kayaks are unusual. The ones that I do hear about are an
hour away and sell for $600+. Having a wood shop, the thought of
building a boat over the winter with my son is appealing, and I'd hoped
it would be affordable as well.

But I appreciate all of the advice.

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Hi Sue,

In the mid-90's I came across some boy scouts who built canvas framed
kayaks as a project. The boats cost virtually nothing (about $75), and
took a few weekends to build. The scouts were using a book called
"Wood and Canvas Kayak Building" by George Putz, ISBN 0071559396,
$13.27 from amazon.com

To build the things, they were just using scrap wood, canvas and
paint. The boats are equally easy to repair, sew the hole back
together, repaint and paddle. Ribs can be repaired with driftwood. The
boats even fit into the category of "fix with duct tape and bailing
wire".

I believe their cost per boat was something like $75 each (mostly for
heavy canvas and good marine paint). They were not the prettiest
things on the water, but it did give the kids a chance to get out and
paddle. They even used them for an overnight trip on the Colorado
River from Loma to Wes****er (class I). The scout leader even made
himself a jumbo sized one, they are a build to fit type boat.

There will no doubt be purists that will balk at such a boat (yes,
just plain painted canvas, no fancy imitation seal skin), but from
what I have read posted here, it just might meet your criteria. The
only downside is that the canvas will rot, no matter what, and will
need to be replaced every few years (more if you are in a wet
climate). For as little as they cost to build, if your son does not
like it, he can probably sell it for a profit and build something
else.

- Eric

building wooden kayak costs?
 

You might want to look he http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/

Links to all sorts of possibilities


"Sue Goddard" wrote in message
...
My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

building wooden kayak costs?
 

"Eric Nyre" wrote...
In the mid-90's I came across some boy scouts who built canvas framed
kayaks as a project. The boats cost virtually nothing (about $75), and
took a few weekends to build. [snip]
To build the things, they were just using scrap wood, canvas and
paint. The boats are equally easy to repair, sew the hole back
together, repaint and paddle. Ribs can be repaired with driftwood. The
boats even fit into the category of "fix with duct tape and bailing
wire".


I started paddling about 35 years ago in a skin & frame kayak made of scrap
wood, 6 mil plastic & duct tape. It had 3/4" plywood frames & 1/4" ply
stringers. It was delicate but cheap & light.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

building wooden kayak costs?
 

On 16-Nov-2003, (Eric Nyre) wrote:

There will no doubt be purists that will balk at such a boat (yes,
just plain painted canvas, no fancy imitation seal skin),

I wouldn't refer to them as purists. Modern Greenlanders make
kayaks using painted canvas. They don't use Putz style frames,
though, prefering traditional style frames.

Mike

building wooden kayak costs?
 

My 14'8" canoe cost me about $735 in 1991 dollars. This includes a
good saw blade, and materials for the strongback.

Dan

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:00:44 GMT, Sue Goddard
wrote:

My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

Colorado Springs, CO
My advice may be worth what you paid for it.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

Epoxy is what gets you the most in cost.

Strip built requires fiberglassing inside and out. If you went with
stitch and glue, you could get away with just coating all surfaces with
2 coats of epoxy, which takes less resin than complete glassing.

S & G designs generally do not require a strong back either.

The trade off is you don't get the super fine curves of a strip built.

For around $300, you could get $200 worth of epoxy and paint and $100
worth of medium grade marine plywood. You could go cheaper with exterior
grade wood you get from the Home Depot but what you save in wood, you
spend in epoxy to get a decent, fair surface. Home Depot plywood will
soak up more resin too.

I don't have any touring kayak plans out yet (couple more months). I do
have a recreational kayak but it's pretty wide to be considered a
touring yak. Wider is generally more stable but not as fast for touring.

Selway Fisher has some neat looking ones
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Kayak.htm.

That or http://www.boatplans-online.com/prod....php?prod=SK17. Evan
designed that one as a 'sea kayak' but it's beamy enough for lake
cruising and be forgiving to a beginner.

Hope that helps!

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://jem.e-boat.net/


Dan Dunphy wrote:
My 14'8" canoe cost me about $735 in 1991 dollars. This includes a
good saw blade, and materials for the strongback.

Dan

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:00:44 GMT, Sue Goddard
wrote:


My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue


Colorado Springs, CO
My advice may be worth what you paid for it.

building wooden kayak costs?
 

My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

There's lots of information on building your own kayaks and canoes
here as well: http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm

A very simple design you could try is this one:
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/...cky_Lassie.htm

Judging from the description it should be fairly cheap and easy to
build. In case you really like to have a closed boat you can always
add a deck etc.


HTH,

Michiel

building wooden kayak costs?
 

My son wants a touring/fla****er kayak and can't afford to buy one. I
have a woodworking shop and offered to help him build one over the
winter, but his budget is only around $300. Chesapeake Light Craft's
kits are +/- $600 for stitch 'n glue. I was hoping a strip boat would
be cheaper, but I bought two books with instructions, and they claim
costs of $500 - $1000.

Does anyone have thoughts on minimum costs to build a kayak, and whether
a strip boat or a stitch 'n glue would be cheaper?

Thanks!

Sue

There's lots of information on building your own kayaks and canoes
here as well: http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm

A very simple design you could try is this one:
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/...cky_Lassie.htm

Judging from the description it should be fairly cheap and easy to
build. In case you really like to have a closed boat you can always
add a deck etc.


HTH,

Michiel