Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

My Rival is almost worn out, and since Dagger is no longer making WW
canoes, I'm considering a Bell Prodigy. Has anyone ever paddled this
boat, or have any first hand knowledge about it?

Thanks,

David

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

David Welden wrote:
My Rival is almost worn out, and since Dagger is no longer making WW
canoes, I'm considering a Bell Prodigy. Has anyone ever paddled this
boat, or have any first hand knowledge about it?

I paddled Bob's personal Prodigy on fla****er down in Charleston and
liked the way it handled. Much faster on flat that you would expect it
to be. Then I paddled Chris Hipgrave's boat on the Nantahala. I felt
rather out of control in it. I think it may have been due to the saddle
height. Chris is 5' 17" and sets his boat up a little differently than I
do, perhaps.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

Look at a Pyranha Prelude or wait for Esquif's new "top secret material"
boat...... they don't wear out! I'm not knocking the Prodigy... but ABS
is Junk if you are hardcore at all. Check C-Forum for more canoe info.

Cheers!,
Craig


http://community.webtv.net/juskanuit/juskanuit
"just canoe it"

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

I've talked with several people "in the industry" that have confirmed
this. I believe that it will come into effect after the current year.
One guy called Dagger to order a new Ocoee, and was told they no
longer manufacture WW canoes.



"JDG" wrote:

Dagger no longer making WW canoes? When did this come about?

"David Welden" wrote in message
.. .
My Rival is almost worn out, and since Dagger is no longer making WW
canoes, I'm considering a Bell Prodigy. Has anyone ever paddled this
boat, or have any first hand knowledge about it?

Thanks,

David

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

Check out Esquif's Canoes ladies and gentlemen..... I hope someone buys
the Ocoee mold.... what a dam'n shame.

Craig


http://community.webtv.net/juskanuit/juskanuit
"just canoe it"

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

I have this pet theory that Royalex is softer than it used to be, due
to OSHA regs concerned with airborne plasticizer (fumes). Also, I
think the plastic may become embrittled and with age. More likely to
crack, but less likely to abrade away on rocks.

Also, if the UP is like Wisconsin, I think granite river bottoms is
harder on boats than the (sandstone?) stuff found in the SE.


just my possilby crackpot theories. I'll get back to work now.


-Dan


On 8 Sep 2003 09:49:06 -0700, (Paul J. Knoerr) wrote:

snipped...

The other point I want to make... I agree with Craig that Royalex is
really sort of a stopgap material for WW Canoes. My friends Prodigy,
after a week of UP rivers looked like it had been abused. I've never
seen a royalex boat that was so beat up from pretty normal usage. I
think that Bell might have taken out a few layers to lighten it up,
and might have been better served with a thicker royalex layup... but
it might just be that particular boat too.

PK

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

I have the same sense that this may be a Royalex problem. My older Dagger WW
ABS canoe were much more hard wearing than the Dagger boats I've bought in
the past couple of years. I thought maybe this was just a Dagger thing, but
it sounds like it's more general.

Parham.

"Dan Valleskey" wrote in message
om...


I have this pet theory that Royalex is softer than it used to be, due
to OSHA regs concerned with airborne plasticizer (fumes). Also, I
think the plastic may become embrittled and with age. More likely to
crack, but less likely to abrade away on rocks.

Also, if the UP is like Wisconsin, I think granite river bottoms is
harder on boats than the (sandstone?) stuff found in the SE.




On 8 Sep 2003 09:49:06 -0700, (Paul J. Knoerr) wrote:

snipped...

The other point I want to make... I agree with Craig that Royalex is
really sort of a stopgap material for WW Canoes. My friends Prodigy,
after a week of UP rivers looked like it had been abused. I've never
seen a royalex boat that was so beat up from pretty normal usage. I
think that Bell might have taken out a few layers to lighten it up,
and might have been better served with a thicker royalex layup... but
it might just be that particular boat too.

PK

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

Dan and Eddy,

Your theory is right on, dating back to @ 1990. There was some change
mandated in the composition of Royalex sheets around '90. The Royalex
in pre-1990 boats is unquestionably tougher stuff; we have canoes from
the 80's that have seen 20 years of realtively hard use that are in
better shape then some out our other canoes that are less than 10
years old.

Even weirder are some of the boats that were built in '90/'91. I'd
always thought it best to avoid those years in used canoes - there was
some really bad Royalex around the time of the change. In one
interesting case a friend has a small solo canoe (1990) that he always
claimed was absurdly heavy. I have the same model canoe dating from
1988 and always thought he was maybe talking about a few pounds until
I had the chance to lift his boat. JEEZE - I didn't have a chance to
weigh it, but it had to be at least 25-30% overweight. Looking at the
bright side, at leats it wasn't soft and floppy like some bad 90's
Royalex.

Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
reason).

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

Nice to get validation-!

could this whole issue have any bearing on the rumour that Dagger is
bailing out on WW open boats?

You know, fiberglass can be made to be tough as nails, I've often
thought I should have bought a Wenonah Edge, Roger Scott had one for
cheap years back. Looked about like the Mohawk Edge, or maybe a
little like a Viper, I can't quite remember. Cool graphics in the gel
coat though. I have had some hellacious hits on my flat water
composite boats, they almost always bounce back for more.



On 10 Sep 2003 11:20:38 -0700, (Mike McCrea)
wrote:

snippsnipp...

Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
reason).

Guess I should keep my eye open for a Genesis or an Encore.


-Dan V.

Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
 

I had a Wenonah Edge for a while - it was as tough as nails, when you
hit a rock it would rattle your teeth and show only superficial
scratches. It was also as heavy as if it had been made of nails, not
sure of the exact weight, but I'm positive it was heavier than a
similar roylaex boat (heavier than my Viper 12).

Check out Kaz's boats (www.millbrookboats.com) - I had one of his C-1
for a while (a Hornet) and it was bomber. Compared to the price of
plastic boats, his prices are very competitive.

Scott

(Dan Valleskey) wrote in message . com...
Nice to get validation-!

could this whole issue have any bearing on the rumour that Dagger is
bailing out on WW open boats?

You know, fiberglass can be made to be tough as nails, I've often
thought I should have bought a Wenonah Edge, Roger Scott had one for
cheap years back. Looked about like the Mohawk Edge, or maybe a
little like a Viper, I can't quite remember. Cool graphics in the gel
coat though. I have had some hellacious hits on my flat water
composite boats, they almost always bounce back for more.



On 10 Sep 2003 11:20:38 -0700, (Mike McCrea)
wrote:

snippsnipp...

Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
reason).

Guess I should keep my eye open for a Genesis or an Encore.


-Dan V.