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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
My green Ram-X 15' 6" "Explorer DLX" may not be the fastest
or most easily paddled canoe out there but, by gum, it's extremely tough, extremely stable, and was amazingly inexpensive to purchase at the local "Dick's" sporting goods store! Also, it's a WONDERFUL boat for the purposes I use it for - fishing, recreational paddling on placid park lakes, and occasional trips down the slow, scenic rivers in the Midwest. So fie upon all of you canoe snobs out there... I bet that my Pelican/Coleman boat will still be in good shape and in use long after you've repaired and repaired and thrown away your "Ols Town", "Weneoah", et al! I leave you with this quoting of KON -26 December, 2000 - Our Coleman's been from PA to Maine in the sun and in the rain for the money its a honey I'd buy me another one again. I'll praise what others berate for our family its been great I'll extol it as I paddle or pole it, the fun has been first-rate. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" wrote in message ... So fie upon all of you canoe snobs out there... I bet that my Pelican/Coleman boat will still be in good shape and in use long after you've repaired and repaired and thrown away your "Ols Town", "Weneoah", et al! Sounds like you have to try pretty hard to convince yourself you made the right choice.... ;-) Good paddling in WHATEVER you paddle, Bob Scott -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
My green Ram-X 15' 6" "Explorer DLX" may not be the fastest or most easily paddled canoe out there but, by gum, it's extremely tough, extremely stable, and was amazingly inexpensive to purchase at the local "Dick's" sporting goods store! Also, it's a WONDERFUL boat for the purposes I use it for - fishing, recreational paddling on placid park lakes, and occasional trips down the slow, scenic rivers in the Midwest. [deletia] Right on man! 'Tis bettter to be on the water than standin' on the shore wishin'! What rivers you boat in the midwest? Any in MO? We have a lot! :-) I WW kayak mostly, but have boated most major fla****er rivers in MO too! -- John Kuthe, 1st rule of Govt: protect people from Govt 2nd rule of Govt: protect people from each other BUT: It must *never* become the job of Govt to protect people from themselves! |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
In article , "Garrison Hilliard"
writes: And you'd be amazed at how durable and easily repaired my Ram-X hull is, If you are happy with you boat and that's what you can afford, fine. I'm glad that you can get on the water. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it is the best product for the job. But you practically said it was in your opening remark! I think you're missing the point. The buyers of coleman canoes are generally just like the buyers of Sea Eagle inflatable kayaks, first time buyers with little experience or knowledge of boat performance or durablity. You don't have to drop thousands of dollars for a decent boat and for a few hundred more than these economy boats, you can get a boat that will perform and last a lifetime. Take a Mohawk Nova 17, this boat list for $820 dollars direct from Mohawk and is a far superior boat in all ways to the Coleman. You can generally pick up the Old Town Discovery series boat for a couple hundred under that price. While I find the extra weight of Poly hull a bit cumbersome, the hull design on these boats are decent and the outfitting is fair if you stay away from the plastic tractor seats. I've had this same discussion on the inflatable side about Sea Eagles and others. But no matter what is said in their defense, the boat is slow, it doesn't really have a self bailing system and the construction method is suspect. For pretty close to the same money, you can get a far superior boat from someone like Innova. Do the research before you buy. You don't have to accept a poor performing boat just because you are on a budget. SYOTR Larry C. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" typed
ospam (Larry Cable) wrote: Garrison Hilliard I'm not much of a canoe snob, Yes, you are, as we shall see. in fact, I generally kayak, but you get what you pay for in canoes. Is a coleman ok to screw around on a lake or slow river? sure it is. Note that you just put your agreement on record. But the hull is slow, turns badly and the descending keel line wears quickly. Will it out last a "Old Town" or "Wenonah"? Not in your wildest dreams. If you do not whitewater boat, there is no reason why any top end canoe would not last a life time. And there's no reason for me to buy a top-price (note, not necessarily top-end) canoe. The Old Town Discovery series are just as durable as the RamX, maybe more so (and it's just as heavy). Even the ABS boats will hold up to abuse, and generally about 10 lbs lighter in similar boats. You would be amazed at just how much abuse that you can give a fiberglass boat without any real damage. And you'd be amazed at how durable and easily repaired my Ram-X hull is, If you are happy with you boat and that's what you can afford, fine. I'm glad that you can get on the water. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it is the best product for the job. But you practically said it was in your opening remark! Eh, Garrison, help me; I'm curious. How is "[i]s a coleman ok ... sure it is" practically the same as "[the Coleman is] the best product for the job"? Saying that something is "ok" for low-intensity usage is saying that it is marginally satisfactory; considerably different from saying it is "the best". Yer not trolling *us*, are you? If the Coleman is adequate for yer purposes, then perhaps it is the right boat for you. But your purpose deson't seem to be *boating*, it seems to be *fishing*! Try yer Coleman on a six-day tour of the Boundary Waters, or a week on a Canadian river, or a day on Class II whitewater, and you will see that, when *canoeing* is the primary purpose, the Coleman is the one of the worst canoes that money can buy. Buying the worst canoe for the purpose is definitely NOT thrifty or wise, but buying a $2,000 We-noh-nah when all you need is a $350 Coleman is not very smart, either! -- -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhople[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
(William R. Watt)
Typed in Message-ID: I get into this argument frequently with boat snobs at rec.boats.building. The best boat is the cheapest boat which meets your requirements. Spending more on a boat than you have to is ostentation, conspicuous consumption, a waste of money. The people at Coleman know this and produce good cheap boats which satisfy the requirements of most cottage owners. People who pay more for that requirement are victims of snob advertising. An expensive boat will not feed you after you're too old to earn a livin t just sits there reminding you of what a fool you've been. The money you saved buying the cheapest boat will feed you after you are too old to work. I don't buy this line. Colemans are marketed to the first time buyer that doesn't know squat about how a canoe should really perform. Do you know any experienced canoeist that make a Coleman their first choice? Why? Is it because they are snobs? How about that they are smart enough to realize that they can get a far superior product for a couple of hundred more. If all you are doing is dinking around in the lake, these boats are fine. That doesn't make them a particularly good buy or a good choice. There are several reasonably priced boats that perform better. Even the old Grummans, or Marathons, which every they call themselves these days, are superior boats. What does a grummie cost these days? SYOTR Larry C. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
Larry Cable ) writes:
I don't buy this line. Colemans are marketed to the first time buyer that doesn't know squat about how a canoe should really perform. Do you know any experienced canoeist that make a Coleman their first choice? Why? Is it because they are snobs? How about that they are smart enough to realize that they can get a far superior product for a couple of hundred more. I don't know what you are basing those statements on but here in Ontario there are families with generations of experience in small boats of all kinds. My father was a prospector and my grandfather a trapper and guide. They weren't farting about in expensive boats for a lark on their summer vacations. We have a long standing tradtion hereabouts of waterfront family cottages handed down from generation to generation. There are very few first time buyers unless they are immigrants and I admit there are a some of those. Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". If all you are doing is dinking around in the lake, these boats are fine. That doesn't make them a particularly good buy or a good choice. There are several reasonably priced boats that perform better. Even the old Grummans, or Marathons, which every they call themselves these days, are superior boats. What does a grummie cost these days? SYOTR Larry C. you can't buy those other boats with Canadian Tire money. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
I don't know what you are basing those statements on but here in Ontario
there are families with generations of experience in small boats of all kinds. My father was a prospector and my grandfather a trapper and guide. They weren't farting about in expensive boats for a lark on their summer vacations. We have a long standing tradtion hereabouts of waterfront family cottages handed down from generation to generation. There are very few first time buyers unless they are immigrants and I admit there are a some of those. Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". Curious, I used to vacation in Ontario as a kid and most of the cottages there had beautiful wood and canvas canoes or Grummans (and this was no rich man's hangout). Of course that was a long time ago. But how does owning or recommending an Old Town rate as "trend following"? I grew up as a farmer and was taught to buy what works and lasts. I have seen the aluminum frame on many a Coleman bent from normal use. My OT has dings from river use. But it has also served well as a fishing platform and lake paddling boat and should last for as long as I will need it. When I spread the cost out over 20 years, it should cost less than $50 per year (and it's already 9 years old so I might make 30 or more), few Colemans will last that long. There is nothing wrong with a Coleman if you don't mind a slow fragile but inexpensive boat. But its like using generic fishing line. It works, it's cheap but it can break easier than Stren. Catch nothing but small fish and you will be fine. Its not a matter of snobbery but priorities. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"William R. Watt" wrote in message ... Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". No... Coleman sells to people that a a) ignorant of canoe design, and/or, b) so cheap all they care about is the price. If you're still happy with your Coleman after a lifetime of use, you deserve it. (Just don't paddle a "real" canoe for a day and ruin your grand illusion.) You could easily buy a decent used canoe for the price of the Coleman that will outperform and outlast it. I think the original post was just a troll, anyhow.... Good paddling, Bob Scott -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Bob" wrote: Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". No... Coleman sells to people that a a) ignorant of canoe design, and/or, b) so cheap all they care about is the price. Guess again, monkey-boy! If you're still happy with your Coleman after a lifetime of use, you deserve it. (Just don't paddle a "real" canoe for a day and ruin your grand illusion.) I have no illusions... I sinply have an inexpansive canoe that fits my needs perfectly (I just used it to circumnavigate and fish the 188 acres of "Winton Woods Lake"... it was the perfect boat to slip over those mud flats and submerged logs). You could easily buy a decent used canoe for the price of the Coleman that will outperform and outlast it. Prove it. I think the original post was just a troll, anyhow.... Since it seems that I'm not... |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
On 20 Aug 2003 02:36:43 GMT, in rec.boats.paddle you wrote:
Nor do I have to purchase an over-priced boat to paddle just because some fudgehead assumes that he knows what I want my boat for! So what you are really saying is that you are a pinhead that is spouting off about something you don't know squat about. Not at all... if you look back on this thread, you'll note that I make several very good arguments about purchasing a canoe that is sufficient for the tasks I plan on using it for, that I am a seasoned boater, and that I am very happy with my canoe. Hopefully, you can also discern from looking at this thread that you're now proving yourself an ass by replying to my message with an ad-hominem remark rather than admitting that (for my purposes) the Pelican/Coleman canoe is a good choice. If you are happy paddling a plastic trashcan with an aluminum frame out of a lawn chair, more power to you. You're obviously not familiar with the Pelican Explorer canoe, also. Last post on this thread, since you don't seem inclined to be civil. I agree with your actions... shut up. There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of stupid people. And, as has been proven in this case, you're one of them. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" wrote: I have no illusions... I sinply have an inexpansive canoe that fits my needs perfectly (I just used it to circumnavigate and fish the 188 acres of "Winton Woods Lake"... it was the perfect boat to slip over those mud flats and submerged logs). Just a little clarification here about Winton Woods - the info is at http://www.hamiltoncountyparks.org/parks/winton_woods/ I think the original post was just a troll, anyhow.... It wasn't. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" wrote in message ... "Bob" wrote: Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". No... Coleman sells to people that a a) ignorant of canoe design, and/or, b) so cheap all they care about is the price. Guess again, monkey-boy! I don't know you (or care to) but I get the impression you are an a**hole that deserves to spend life paddling a crappy canoe. Good paddling to you, Bob -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:16:22 +0000, Garrison Hilliard wrote:
If you are happy paddling a plastic trashcan with an aluminum frame out of a lawn chair, more power to you. You're obviously not familiar with the Pelican Explorer canoe, also. Just to let you know, my canoe is VERY similar to the one found at http://www.pelican-intl.com/page.asp...rID-10_sPos-0; except that believe that my boat has a slightly flatter bottom and is termed an "Explorer". p.s. And yes, I LIKE and have used the used the little cooler at midships! |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
In article , Garrison Hilliard
writes: You're obviously not familiar with the Pelican Explorer canoe, also. Just to let you know, my canoe is VERY similar to the one found at Give it up, I'm very familar with your canoe. I've been pulling these things out of rivers for almost 25 years. It's a thin poly boat reinforced with aluminum tubing. The only thing that these boats have going for them is that they are just about the cheapest canoe you can buy. If that is your only concern, then why bother posting. If you actually think it is a wonderful performing boat, then you haven't ever tried a real canoe. A quick web search can give you a dozen canoes that are within $150 dollars of the retail on these boats. Many of these are far superior canoes in both durability and performance. Why do you think that these are marketed to what amounts to the non-paddling public? Because anyone that has done a bit of research and demoed a few boats, or has paddling experience, doesn't buy them. SYOTR Larry C. |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
Geesh... ever meet a fisherman that goes trolling and then is upset because
he hooks a few fish? I believe most all here at rec.boats.paddle are not the least bit snobbish. If you're having a good time, we're all happy. But you brought all this on yourself when you started this thread. What did you expect? Why don't you head over to the auto enthusiasts' newsgroup and proclaim that you've decided a Yugo is the ultimate car for you, and anyone that suggests an American/Japanese/European car might be better is just a snob and a fool? Do you think they'd applaud you? I'm honestly happy that you are so happy with your boat. It's fun to buy something that really satisfies. It's fun to get out on the water and paddle. Why would you possibly be upset that people would like to see you have a better boat and enjoy it MORE? That's what I see happening here.... people are suggesting how you might get even more fun and satisfaction for your dollar spent, and you're calling them snobs. If you were my neighbor, I'd let you test-paddle my canoes. I'm sure you'd change your mind on the snobbery thing. I'd help you find a deal on a good used boat too. Good paddling, Bob Scott "Garrison Hilliard" wrote in message ... On 20 Aug 2003 02:36:43 GMT, ospam (Larry Cable) wrote: Give it up, I'm very familar with your canoe. Give it up, you're a "boat snob" and a liar. In the prior posting , Larry wrote: Last post on this thread, since you don't seem inclined to be civil. If you actually think it is a wonderful performing boat, then you haven't ever tried a real canoe. If you'll recall, it is a wonderful performing boat FOR THE PURPOSES I USE IT FOR - fishing and fla****er paddling. I am not now, never will be, and never have been interested in canoe racing or whitewater riding - I don't NEED a vee-hulled, extreme rockered, ultralight boat costing several thousand dollars, nor do I want such a boat! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
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DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" wrote... (William R. Watt) wrote: My last two boats were made of one sheet of plywood each and cost less than $25 Canadian per boat. One is a paddlign boat, the other is a sailing boat. And they suit my purposes to a "t". Well, if it fits your purposes well, it's the boat for you! Personally, I thought about making my own canoe, but the durablity, fixablity, and low purchase price made me pick a polyethelene Pelican craft. I consider the Coleman to be just about the worst canoe in existence, but it was the right canoe for a well known canoeist & author for a solo trip in Canada's far north. Yes, it was a real dog in the water & too awkward & heavy to carry on long portages. On the positive side, he could buy it cheap in Yellowknife at the start of the trip. The portages were muskeg, so he just dragged it. It slid well & he wasn't worried about damage. The end of the trip was very remote & the cost to fly a canoe out would have been a few $K. So he sold it dirt cheap at a native community. Lloyd Bowles www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
"Garrison Hilliard" typed:
"Bob" wrote: Coleman's sell to cottage owners who have more sense than your trend following "canoeist". No... Coleman sells to people that a a) ignorant of canoe design, and/or, b) so cheap all they care about is the price. Guess again, monkey-boy! If you're still happy with your Coleman after a lifetime of use, you deserve it. (Just don't paddle a "real" canoe for a day and ruin your grand illusion.) I have no illusions... I sinply have an inexpansive canoe that fits my needs perfectly (I just used it to circumnavigate and fish the 188 acres of "Winton Woods Lake"... it was the perfect boat to slip over those mud flats and submerged logs). You could easily buy a decent used canoe for the price of the Coleman that will outperform and outlast it. Prove it. I think the original post was just a troll, anyhow.... Since it seems that I'm not... Er, ah... it may seem to YOU that yer not. To the world at large, you show all the classic signs. -- -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhople[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== |
DEFENDING THE HONOR OF MY PELICAN/COLEMAN CANOE!
Stroyer wrote:
Oh, and then there's my canoe... it's not the fastest, the easiest turning, it's not the lightest, and I'm still pretty new to the sport... but I still have had a blast with my Green Pelican Explorer. It's probably not the best at anything (but the cooler IS cool)... but it works .... and I enjoy it. Isn't that what it's all about? I thought it was. I just used my lovely $279 Pelican Explorer at the Paddlefest and it performed like a true champion, carrying myself, my bicycle, and the oodles of promo stuff I'd gathered safely and stably down the wide Ohio, passing many "yuppie schooners" along the way. Granted, my canoe wasn't the first to make landfall at Cincinnati's Public Landing, but it sure wasn't the last one to do so, either! |
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