initial kayak impressions
 

I had never paddled a kayak when I got the opportunity to try
paddling some courtesy of local sporting goods stores who were
giving free demonstrations at a local public beach. Over three
evenings I paddled 14 dfferent kayaks. They were all what I'd call
general puropse kayaks. There were none for white water or long
trips.

I found it easy to paddle a kayak the first time. You have to
wedge yourself in by bracing your feet on peddals and in decked
kayaks your knees under the deck. Then its just a matter of
swinging the double bladed paddle as if you were swimming. I've
done a lot of swimming so it came naturally. I was able to paddle
at full power right from the start.

All the kayaks save one were fast and efficent for their size. The
theory of hull resistance has been pretty well worked out. There
are computer programs you can buy which will do the computations
and print out the numbers for the hull shape. The one bad kayak I
paddled was noisy and left trubultent water in its wake. The
others all went through the water cleanly.

Some of the longer boats didn't manouver very well. Some had to an
extra piece on the back, either a skeg or a rudder, to help them
go straight or to turn. These were supposed to be raised an
lowered by a thin line but many didn't work well. Some stuck. One
had no stopper on the line which dropped in the water and trailed
behind. I had to to twist around and fish it out with the paddle.
That took a few attempts. On all but one the line was held in a
small hook or cleat which was not easy to use. You can't turn fast
with the skeg or rudder down. If you want to turn fast you first
have to raise the skeg or rudder with the line, then use the
paddle and body to turn the boat. That's pretty slow. One of the
boats with a rudder must have had sand in the works. It was hard
to push the peddals to turn the rudder. I could feel the grit
grinding in the works.

There must not be a computer program for the best way to build a
lightweight but strong and rigid kayak because there was a lot of
variation in the longer decked kayaks. The sexier boats with fine
entries and flat bottoms were the least rigid. The bottoms flexed
up and down. Some boats had a piece of pipe from one end to the
other to make them rigid. Another had a brace between the top and
bottom which you had to put your legs around. Others had ridges on
the inside. The boats with rounder bottoms and rounder decks were
more rigid and had less extra bracing. All of the boats were light
for their size. The longest was 15 feet. Any I tried to lift I
could do so with one hand.

There was a lot of variation in comfort and convenience among the
kayaks. After a while my preference was for a roomy cockpit in a
boat wide enough I could twist around in and look back, or get
something out of the rear compartment if the boat had one. One
boat was so narrow I tipped it over trying to get in. Another was
so wide I couldn't brace my feet and knees on the inside. In
one my knees were braced on the side of the kneecaps. That was
very uncomfortable. I think getting a kayak is like getting a suit
of clothes. Fit is important. One thing I would look for is a seat
high enough to support the back. Only two or three of the 14
kayaks had a seat which provided good support above the hips.

Some of the kayaks were sit on top models and others were sit
inside models. My overall impression was that the sit on top
kayaks were the most successful designs for performance and
comfort. They were also lower priced because they are simpler to
make. They come right out of the mold ready for sale, only
requiring sufficient labour cost to screw on handles at the ends.
However, the sit on top models offered no protection from wind,
waves, or sun. None had waterproof storage. In fact they are so
wet I would wear a bathing suit. One had drain holes which let in
water. I would avoid paddling in questionable water. They would be
fun to use at the beach. My preference would be for a kayak which
had a dry place to keep a camera and some food. I like to drive
out in the country and spend the day exploring local waters.

One evening there was wind and small waves with whitecaps. I
had fun bashing through the waves. All of the kayaks I paddled
let in spray and became wet. During the three evenings I tried
paddling kayaks I never got into a dry one. We all seemed to get
water into the kayaks even when there was no wind or waves.
Perhaps that was because most of the people trying out the
demonstration kayaks were inexperineced novices liek myself. It
was like sitting in a shower stall. I'd wear a bathing suit or use
a spray skirt. I wonder how hot it would be in a kayak with a
spray skirt without any ventilation.

So far my personal preference in one of these kayaks would be a
long wide one with a rounded bottom, roomy cockpit, high seat, dry
storage accessable afloat, and no skeg or rudder. These weeknight
demonstrations continue throughout the summer so I hope to try
more boats.

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initial kayak impressions
 

So far my personal preference in one of these kayaks would be a
long wide one with a rounded bottom, roomy cockpit, high seat, dry
storage accessable afloat, and no skeg or rudder. These weeknight
demonstrations continue throughout the summer so I hope to try
more boats.

I'm assuming this long post was for the purpose of sharing your thoughts, I
really didn't see any questions in there.

My only bit of advise would be consider what you want to do with the boat in
three (3) years? Don't buy a boat based on what you like or feel
comfortable in now, because I guarantee you won't be happy with it in 2
years. Most new kayakers want "initial stability" while more experienced
kayakers would quickly trade off initial stability in favor of "secondary
stability". Your comment about wanting a "long wide" boat will come back to
haunt you someday, I assure you. (unless of course, you are a bird watcher,
photographer with no need for speed).

Welcome to the sport!

Wade

initial kayak impressions
 

Congrats on your first kayaking experience! Here are a ffew comments:

(William R. Watt) writes:

[snip]
I found it easy to paddle a kayak the first time. You have to
wedge yourself in by bracing your feet on peddals and in decked
kayaks your knees under the deck. Then its just a matter of
swinging the double bladed paddle as if you were swimming. I've
done a lot of swimming so it came naturally. I was able to paddle
at full power right from the start.

If you paddle for longer periods of time and for longer distances,
you'll no doubt discover that there's a bit more to it...just like
swimming long distances.

All the kayaks save one were fast and efficent for their size. The
theory of hull resistance has been pretty well worked out. There
are computer programs you can buy which will do the computations
and print out the numbers for the hull shape. The one bad kayak I
paddled was noisy and left trubultent water in its wake. The
others all went through the water cleanly.

"General purpose" kayaks are designed to do an adequate job of many
things, but optimal hull performance isn't at the top of the list.
Out of curiosity, what was the "bad" boat?

Some of the longer boats didn't manouver very well. Some had to an
extra piece on the back, either a skeg or a rudder, to help them
go straight or to turn.

Maneuvering and tracking -- turning when you want to turn, and going
straight when you want to go straight -- are skills that kayakers
all need to learn how to do. It's an oversimplification, but in
general, when you try to optimize a boat for maneuvering, you're
likely going to sacrifice some tracking ability, and vice versa.
Unlike a sailboat rudder, the rudder in a kayak is not there to
help you turn the boat, but to stay on course and counter the boat's
tendency to weathercock. Turning is accomplished with paddling
strokes and techniques.

There must not be a computer program for the best way to build a
lightweight but strong and rigid kayak because there was a lot of
variation in the longer decked kayaks.

Well...is there a computer program to build the best car? No,
because people use them for different things. Lightweight is good,
but lightweight materials cost more and are less durable. There are
tradeoffs, and a designere has to prioritize based on what the
boat's supposed to do. The boat you want for splashing around on
the pond near your house is probably not the boa you want for ocean
crossings, or for a 10-day self-supported wilderness trip.

There was a lot of variation in comfort and convenience among the
kayaks. After a while my preference was for a roomy cockpit in a
boat wide enough I could twist around in and look back, or get
something out of the rear compartment if the boat had one. One
boat was so narrow I tipped it over trying to get in. Another was
so wide I couldn't brace my feet and knees on the inside. In
one my knees were braced on the side of the kneecaps. That was
very uncomfortable. I think getting a kayak is like getting a suit
of clothes. Fit is important. One thing I would look for is a seat
high enough to support the back. Only two or three of the 14
kayaks had a seat which provided good support above the hips.

A rigid seat isn't necessary for lower back support -- a good
backband will do the job. As for the rest of the outfitting,
beginners typically find a kayak very confining at first, and want a
real roomy boat. This preference usually changes pretty quickly,
though. You paddle a kayak with your body, and if it's loose, your
paddling is much less efficient and effective. Also, being able to
turn around to get things out of the back is...well, if it's what
you want, it's what you want. But to have a boat that's roomy AND
stable enough to do this without flipping fairly frequently, you'll
be giving up a lot in other areas. Most kayakers either get to
shore before opening a compartment, or get a buddy to do it for
them. It's a bit risky doing it yourself because it's easy to lose
gear and get water in the compartment.

Some of the kayaks were sit on top models and others were sit
inside models. My overall impression was that the sit on top
kayaks were the most successful designs for performance and
comfort.

It's most successful for you if it's what you want. I don't think
that SOTs tend to do very well performance-wise, when compared with
decked boats. But it may be that that was true of the set of boats
you paddled.

They were also lower priced because they are simpler to
make. They come right out of the mold ready for sale, only
requiring sufficient labour cost to screw on handles at the ends.
However, the sit on top models offered no protection from wind,
waves, or sun. None had waterproof storage. In fact they are so
wet I would wear a bathing suit. One had drain holes which let in
water.

Those holes also let the water out. Overall, that boat will
probably be drier to paddle than a SOT that doesn't have drain
holes.

I would avoid paddling in questionable water. They would be
fun to use at the beach. My preference would be for a kayak which
had a dry place to keep a camera and some food. I like to drive
out in the country and spend the day exploring local waters.

Get a decked boat, then. But be aware that you'll probably never
find a boat with a compartment that's absolutely dry. That's why we
carry drybags.

One evening there was wind and small waves with whitecaps. I
had fun bashing through the waves. All of the kayaks I paddled
let in spray and became wet. During the three evenings I tried
paddling kayaks I never got into a dry one. We all seemed to get
water into the kayaks even when there was no wind or waves.
Perhaps that was because most of the people trying out the
demonstration kayaks were inexperineced novices liek myself. It
was like sitting in a shower stall. I'd wear a bathing suit or use
a spray skirt. I wonder how hot it would be in a kayak with a
spray skirt without any ventilation.

That's a big "it depends". I'm mostly a whitewater kayaker, so my
skirt is on all the time. I rarely get too warm, and when I do, I
roll. Paddling in the blazing sun, without the ability to roll,
could be pretty hot and nasty. But kayaking is a wet sport, and a
skirt is what's needed to minimize (not eliminate) the wetness.
When kayaking, you do need to dress for the assumption that you will
be in the water.

So far my personal preference in one of these kayaks would be a
long wide one with a rounded bottom, roomy cockpit, high seat, dry
storage accessable afloat, and no skeg or rudder.

Yup, pretty common beginner preferences -- and ones that most
beginners seem to outgrow quickly. If John Fereira is around, maybe
he'll have something to add about this. Suggestion: don't just go
to the demos, but take a class. You'll learn some technique that
will help you to develop some preferences and evaluate in a
systematic manner.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

initial kayak impressions
 

Interesting comments, William, and pretty perceptive for a newcomer.

Some of the longer boats didn't manouver very well. Some had to an
extra piece on the back, either a skeg or a rudder, to help them
go straight or to turn. These were supposed to be raised an
lowered by a thin line but many didn't work well. Some stuck. One
had no stopper on the line which dropped in the water and trailed
behind.

Sounds like these demo boats have had quite a bit of use. You shouldn't
have these problems.

with the skeg or rudder down. If you want to turn fast you first
have to raise the skeg or rudder with the line, then use the
paddle and body to turn the boat. That's pretty slow.

A rudder can be used to help you turn, although as you learn technique you
won't have to rely on it. You shouldn't have to raise either a rudder or
skeg in order to turn. You need to learn how to edge or lean the boat and
use a sweep stroke. I only deploy my rudder in winds strong enough to cause
weathercocking (the wind pushes the stern downwind, tending to force you
into the wind direction).

The sexier boats with fine
entries and flat bottoms were the least rigid. The bottoms flexed
up and down.

You should look for rigidity. Otherwise, you waste energy.

After a while my preference was for a roomy cockpit in a
boat wide enough I could twist around in and look back, or get
something out of the rear compartment if the boat had one. One
boat was so narrow I tipped it over trying to get in.

You'll find the narrower boats to be faster and more efficient to paddle.
You can get a deck bag to store small items in and have them right in front
of you.

However, the sit on top models offered no protection from wind,
waves, or sun. None had waterproof storage. In fact they are so
wet I would wear a bathing suit. One had drain holes which let in
water.

Some SOTs have dry storage, either a full-sized hatch or a small day hatch
to carry lunch and a camera. Most are "self-bailing," with drain openings;
however, they also come with plugs for the drains. The wetness of the ride
varies greatly among different designs of SOTs.

So far my personal preference in one of these kayaks would be a
long wide one with a rounded bottom, roomy cockpit, high seat, dry
storage accessable afloat, and no skeg or rudder. These weeknight
demonstrations continue throughout the summer so I hope to try
more boats.

Again, I caution you against too wide a boat, unless your main goal is
activities like fishing, birdwatching, and photography. The mere fact of a
round bottom does not necessarily imply a certain type of performance.
There is great variation among the different designs. You might find that
you like certain hard-chine boats. I, myself, like multichine designs a
lot.

Try as many different kayaks as you can before you buy. You might want to
select a few to rent so that you can give them a more extensive trial before
deciding. Good luck and have fun!

Conrad

initial kayak impressions
 

thanks for the interesting comments. on the Usenet people tend to write
from a very personal perspective. I think people are expecting too much of
this paddler. New to kayaks but not to paddling or boatbuilding. Concieved
in a canoe. Born in a canoe, Suckled in a canoe. Weaned in a canoe. Cut my
teeth on a canoe gunwale. I did note my paddling is limited to day trips
on local water of which there is quite a variety. Someone wrote
"birdwatching". That would be close.

on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local
Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side
of the discussion.


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initial kayak impressions
 

"William R. Watt" wrote:

on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local
Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side
of the discussion.

That's an interesting position for a novice kayaker to take. Whether to seek
instruction or not largely depends on how long you want to take to learn and how
much you want to learn. You can teach yourself some skills from books, but you can
learn much faster with instruction. Some techniques are nearly impossible to
describe adequately in print.

"Instruction" doesn't necessarily mean "professional instruction". Many clubs
offer free or low-cost instruction or "skills sessions" which can dramatically
shorten your learning curve.

--
Regards

Brian

initial kayak impressions
 

William R. Watt wrote:
on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the
local Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no
lessons" side of the discussion.

Sit-on-tops probably make that more possible (and responsible) than was
possible in the past.

initial kayak impressions
 

initial kayak impressions
 

"David J. Van den Branden" writes:

From: (Oci-One Kanubi)

Personally, I am sooooooo grateful to those (the late Roger Corbett
first amongst them chronologically, and Bob Foote first amongst them
in terms of skill and professionalism) who taught the classes I took
almost annually for ten years. The fact that I now border upon
skillful...

True, heartfelt modesty is so refreshing to come across these days. A sign
of first class up-bringing.

Yeah, and then there's whatever mysterious means Kanubi arrived at
it ;-)

One of my fave books has a part where the main character has a hairy
moment while climbing a cliff. He gets himself out of it, and then
thinks -- not, "Damn, I'm good," or "Whoa, I kicked that cliff's
ass!", but, "All praise to my teachers." I really like that line.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

initial kayak impressions
 

Brian Nystrom ) writes:
"William R. Watt" wrote:

on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local
Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side
of the discussion.

That's an interesting position for a novice kayaker to take. Whether to seek
instruction or not largely depends on how long you want to take to learn and how
much you want to learn. You can teach yourself some skills from books, but you can
learn much faster with instruction. Some techniques are nearly impossible to
describe adequately in print.

"Instruction" doesn't necessarily mean "professional instruction". Many clubs
offer free or low-cost instruction or "skills sessions" which can dramatically
shorten your learning curve.

I agree. That has been my basic position in the discussion. In addition to
your suggestions I've been saying that those of us with webbed feet who
grew up partially immersed in water learned from our families and by trial
and error. I also make the point that lessons can give you knowledge but
only practice gives you skill and experience. Knowlege is available from
many sources.

However "professional's" in the discussion maintain that most paddlers are
some kind of dummies who need to buy lessons and go on guided trips.
Perhaps the dummies gravitate toward professional paddlers and that's all
they see. I also suspect a lot of professional paddlers came up through
their own kind of system and know no other.
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initial kayak impressions
 

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:
(William R. Watt) typed:

on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local
Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side
of the discussion.

That's fascinating. Would you mind posting some of the rationales for
deliberately attempting a difficult and mildly dangerous activity
incompetantly? I'd be really interested to read about 'em.

where do you get that "incompetently". absence of paid instruction is not
incompetence. I give you thousands of years of native experience paddling
canoes and kayaks before the advent of paid instructors, as well as
hundreds of years of canoe experience by white explorers, fur traders,
trappers, propsectors, guides, hunters and fishermen. Well known paddlers
like Bill Mason and Eric Morse taught themselves to paddle in all kinds of
conditions.



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initial kayak impressions
 

a few more impressions ...

Tonight I paddled a 19 ft kayak but it did not have any cargo so
it sat high and was light and unstable. The sales rep said the
only way to try one of these multi-day trip kayaks is to rent one,
load it up, and paddle it around for a day or two. He gave me a
sales booklet of specs for the kayaks his store sells. Only some
of them listed load capacity. Others just stated the internal
volume. None showed the design draft or the immersion per unit
load above that. These are numbers hull design programs spit out.
They should be in the specifications for purchasers on load
carrying boats.

On the way to the beach today I visited two of the sporting goods
stores who are participating in the evening demonstrations. The
stores had a bunch of kayaks up on racks where I was able to look
over the hulls, especailly the bottoms. I was surprized to see one
of the chined boats had a convexity in a flat panel. This was in a
new boat that had never been used. I was also suprized to see a
hull distorted by a bulkhead. I didn't even need to my hand over
the hull to feel for it it. It stood out visibly like the
proverbial sore thunmb. I know enough about boatbuilding to
realize the repetitive strain boats take as waves pass under the
hull disorting the weak ones and breaking down the material they
are made of, saying nothing of loss of performance. On some
sailboats bulkheads do not come in direct contact with the hull
but are cushioned by a foam insert to prevent hard spots. After
seeing these kayaks in the stores I'd choose a round bottom hull
because it would be less likely to have weak spots.

The next thing I'd like to try is climbing back into (or onto) different
kayaks to see which ones are easiest to re-enter.

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initial kayak impressions
 

"William R. Watt" wrote:

a few more impressions ...

Tonight I paddled a 19 ft kayak but it did not have any cargo so
it sat high and was light and unstable. The sales rep said the
only way to try one of these multi-day trip kayaks is to rent one,
load it up, and paddle it around for a day or two.

There are a lot of "barges" on the market and surprisingly, they sell well,
despite the fact that most people who buy them will never do an expedition. It's
probably due to the same reasons that people buy SUV's, the "bigger is better"
mentality, "just in case" and delusions of grandeur. Most people would be better
off with a lower volume day boat...and a small, fuel efficient car.

He gave me a
sales booklet of specs for the kayaks his store sells. Only some
of them listed load capacity. Others just stated the internal
volume. None showed the design draft or the immersion per unit
load above that. These are numbers hull design programs spit out.
They should be in the specifications for purchasers on load
carrying boats.

Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published.

On the way to the beach today I visited two of the sporting goods
stores who are participating in the evening demonstrations. The
stores had a bunch of kayaks up on racks where I was able to look
over the hulls, especailly the bottoms. I was surprized to see one
of the chined boats had a convexity in a flat panel. This was in a
new boat that had never been used. I was also suprized to see a
hull distorted by a bulkhead. I didn't even need to my hand over
the hull to feel for it it. It stood out visibly like the
proverbial sore thunmb.

If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there
that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but
most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will
usually return to shape if left out in the sun.

I know enough about boatbuilding to
realize the repetitive strain boats take as waves pass under the
hull disorting the weak ones and breaking down the material they
are made of, saying nothing of loss of performance.

Polyethylene doesn't break down with repetitive stress, but it does flex.
Composite hulls are stiffer.

On some
sailboats bulkheads do not come in direct contact with the hull
but are cushioned by a foam insert to prevent hard spots.

Some kayaks use foam bulkheads, for the same reason. However, it's not as much of
a problem as some people would lead you to believe. My boats get used hard and
banged around quite a bit and I have yet to have a problem due to a hard bulkhead.

After
seeing these kayaks in the stores I'd choose a round bottom hull
because it would be less likely to have weak spots.

That's not an issue with a well-made boat. Choose the boat that fits you best and
handles the way you want, and ignore the hull shape. Kayak performance is
dependent on far more than hull cross-section shape.

The next thing I'd like to try is climbing back into (or onto) different
kayaks to see which ones are easiest to re-enter.

There's a lot of variation there, too. Personally, I prefer to concentrate on how
the boat works on the water, since that's where I am 99%+ of the time. I find
small cockpits to offer increased control and security, despite the fact that I'
6' tall.

--
Regards

Brian

initial kayak impressions
 

Brian Nystrom ) writes:
Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published.

what the sales literature had were vague statements like "for weekends" or
"for multi-day trips". I think they should be more spacific and say "this
boat is designed to perform best with a load between 250 and 500 lbs". I
don't see the value of interior volume since its more important to know
how much the boat will float the size of what it will hold. Room sizes are
more appropriate to buying houses which don't have to float their
contents.

If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there
that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but
most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will
usually return to shape if left out in the sun.

I was careful to distinguish between design weakness and temporary
distortion. I've seek a kayak come off a trailer after a long trip with a
big dent in the side which will strighten out. No, the flat spot on the
chined boat was due to the material being too thin. Housing standards
specify the span beteen joists for plywood of a given thickness. There are
similar standards for boats from insurance associations and naval
architects (eg military), and guidelines such as David Gerr's "Elements of
Boat Strength" of which our public library has a copy. The hull design
programs I've seen don't cover "scantlings", but do cover a lot of
other things like shape, initial stability, capacity, resistance, etc.




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One of my fave books has a part where the main character has a hairy
moment while climbing a cliff. He gets himself out of it, and then
thinks -- not, "Damn, I'm good," or "Whoa, I kicked that cliff's
ass!", but, "All praise to my teachers." I really like that line.

My experience was somewhat different and also using climbing to judge
kayaking off is always a bad idea. Kayaking is endlessly dynamic and
climbing is only sporadically dynamic. My early impressions of kayaking
and paddling white water and getting into and out of trouble was usually
"What the hell happened there" not "Damn I'm good" or "I kicked that
rapids butt" (Well I would never use that strange language!). Mind you
when I started out kayaking we a bunch of school kids would head down to
the canal and play in the kayaks and gradually learn things. I remember
learning to roll - the group of us were trying to workout how it was
done, none of could and only two had seen anyone else roll, it took
several weeks!!! AN instructor would have sped up this no end but we
would not have had so much fun!

This is not an argument for everyone receiving professional instruction
because there are too many professional instructors who do it as a job
and have as much interest in their job as the counter staff at Maccie
D's! This is why I have never been a professional instructor I would
rather keep my hobby as a hobby and not make it my job.
--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

initial kayak impressions
 

"William R. Watt" wrote:

Brian Nystrom ) writes:
Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published.

what the sales literature had were vague statements like "for weekends" or
"for multi-day trips". I think they should be more spacific and say "this
boat is designed to perform best with a load between 250 and 500 lbs". I
don't see the value of interior volume since its more important to know
how much the boat will float the size of what it will hold. Room sizes are
more appropriate to buying houses which don't have to float their
contents.

I don't disagree with you, but what they're doing is catering to the market.
Categories such as those you mention are useful for the average person who's trying
to figure out what boat suits their needs. Carrying capacity is commonly published,
but moreso for higher-end boats. It's also easily misinterpreted. Is it the designed
cargo weight? Is it the weight at which the boat submerges? How much of a safety
margin is built in? Etc, etc. If the manufacturer provides enough detail, it can be a
useful number to know.

If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there
that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but
most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will
usually return to shape if left out in the sun.

I was careful to distinguish between design weakness and temporary
distortion. I've seek a kayak come off a trailer after a long trip with a
big dent in the side which will strighten out. No, the flat spot on the
chined boat was due to the material being too thin. Housing standards
specify the span beteen joists for plywood of a given thickness. There are
similar standards for boats from insurance associations and naval
architects (eg military), and guidelines such as David Gerr's "Elements of
Boat Strength" of which our public library has a copy. The hull design
programs I've seen don't cover "scantlings", but do cover a lot of
other things like shape, initial stability, capacity, resistance, etc.

There are several kayak companies that are notorious for making flimsy hulls. For
them, it's all about marketing and not about performannce, though in some cases, the
problem is limited to specific models, typically short, wide, low-end boats. It's
good that you picked up on this.

--
Regards

Brian

initial kayak impressions
 

Dave Manby ) writes:

when I started out kayaking we a bunch of school kids would head down to
the canal and play in the kayaks and gradually learn things. I remember
learning to roll - the group of us were trying to workout how it was
done, none of could and only two had seen anyone else roll, it took
several weeks!!! AN instructor would have sped up this no end but we
would not have had so much fun!

the beach where I've been hanging out is just upstream from a favourite
rapids on the river. guys come to the beach to teach their girlfriends
how to roll a white water kayak. I've watched them enough to know how its
done. I just need to try it in a boat. :)

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