I was wondering when this would surface in this thread. I've been victim to
both sides of this controversy so I don't believe it appropriate to blame
one group of boaters or the other.

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

OTOH
Those 35'+ trawlers making a pair of small tidal waves through a fishing
hole OUTSIDE a navigation channel are just as discourteous. What about
anglers anchored in a non speed-restricted channel? Should boaters reduce
speed to minimize their wake while navigating the channel? I see both
sides.

So please dish out the complaints accordingly.

Clarence

"

Oh, please. I found far more discourteous sailboat captains during a 1500
mile voyage down the east coast and ICW than I found power boaters.

Eisboch

Clarence Bell wrote:

I was wondering when this would surface in this thread. I've been victim to
both sides of this controversy so I don't believe it appropriate to blame
one group of boaters or the other.

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

OTOH
Those 35'+ trawlers making a pair of small tidal waves through a fishing
hole OUTSIDE a navigation channel are just as discourteous. What about
anglers anchored in a non speed-restricted channel? Should boaters reduce
speed to minimize their wake while navigating the channel? I see both
sides.

So please dish out the complaints accordingly.

Clarence

"

Oh, please. I found far more discourteous sailboat captains during a 1500
mile voyage down the east coast and ICW than I found power boaters.

Eisboch




If you boat anywhere near Annapolis in the summer, you have to keep a
constant watch for discourteous sailboters who think nothing of running
you down if you are in their way. Or, the sailbot captains become dazed
by the heat and the inability of their crafts to move at hull speed.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

I'm looking for a small trawler ( 30'+, hull speed boat) to add to my
Paceship, Prindle, Al. Jon boat and Carolina skiff. I'll never own a big
planning hull boat simply because of the high cost of operation. If you
spend the amount of time that I do on the water, fuel consumption becomes a
real issue. BTW Mr. Krause, If you can't effortlessly maneuver around a
sailboat traveling at hull speed when under sail or power maybe you're in
the wrong sport. Exactly how many times have you been "run down" by sail
boats? I have some really good video of "power boater" misbehavior /
incompetence from this summer and not one single instance of a hull speed
boat (sail or power) occurred for me to shoot. The Trawlers seemed
particularly well captained.

Here's what I said before, Y'all must have missed it.

"Unlike most weekend boaters, I live on the water and my dock and boats
(both
power and sail) are setup so that wake is not a problem. I also sometimes
make wake
with my fishing boat and seadoo right out in front of my house that affects
my and my neighbors boats and piers. OTH if there are people in boats out
in the narrow sections I slow down and in the wide sections I give them a
wide berth. I am mainly referring to large boats running past hull speed in
the canals that are designated 6 mph zones and other areas that common sense
should be enough to dictate a change in speed. I'll soon have a 30'+ power
boat in my boat house that will be capable of creating a large wake and I'll
have the courtesy not to inflict that wake on others. Out in the open bay,
wakes are not a concern. But it was not just the wakes that I've found to
separate planning hull boats from the hull speed bunch, it's an attitude
thing.

That's not to say that we didn't meet some friendly courteous power boaters
(remember, I'm one too) but we sure endured a bunch of jerks too. Like the
one 40 footer that came roaring past our two sail boats as we approached the
park docks on McGregor Island (1000 Islands) sending a huge wake into all of
the boats tied up at the docks. It looked like there was only one dock
space left and he was going to have it...everyone else be damned. As it
turned out, there was another boat traveling with him that did not have
enough room to get past us or just chose not to pull the same stupid stunt
and it pulled up outside the dock area and waited. There were actually
three dock spaces left but one was in really shallow water. We took the two
slips in deeper water but after checking the depth determined that I could
move to the shallow slip if my keel was up and we did that to allow the
other boat to dock. I wonder if the 1st jerk would have extended me the
same courtesy had the roles been reversed... I really doubt it. I can
relate many more instances in the same vein but won't waste the time...you
should get the drift.

Because I live on a fairly busy waterway and I spent a lot of time out on
the water, I see boater behavior on a daily basis and I can say without
fear of contradiction that planning hull power-boaters, as a group, are by
far the most discourteous, unseamanly and environmentally unfriendly of all
boater groups. I know that PWC can be a problem in some areas but they have
been a non-issue for us and we see a lot of them. I don't believe that I
should just "get over" bad behavior on the part of any group of people and
from this point on I'll take video and turn the jerks in when it is clear
that they are breaking an established set of rules. I did exactly that to
the commercial fishermen that were using our Bayou as a dumping ground for
their old boats. After the CG and Sheriff used my video to nab a few of
them, they no longer dump their boats...at least not in this bayou. It
really ****es me off that we have instituted a tough set of rules for the
PWC in Texas and yet let the big boats do far more damage without
consequence. 600' ships produce less wake than these idiots.
Hell, I don't mind waves or wakes. My boat can handle it. I often seek out
black clouds to sail under just to get really good rail down sailing. But
not in an anchorage, narrow channel or where my boat handling will adversely
affect other boats.

It's interesting to note that the other boat that accompanied us on this
trip is captained by a highly experienced man that has done professional
sal****er boat deliveries for years.( Mainly large power boats BTW) At one
point during the trip he said
"I know parts of Texas and Louisiana where these jerks would be running
around with numerous .30 cal leaks at the waterline if they behaved like
this very often".


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Clarence Bell wrote:

If you boat anywhere near Annapolis in the summer, you have to keep a
constant watch for discourteous sailboters who think nothing of running
you down if you are in their way. Or, the sailbot captains become dazed
by the heat and the inability of their crafts to move at hull speed.

Well, when you really get to it, the water should be reserved for
those who can afford to own property on it. All these inexperienced
folks who wish to raise thier kids on the water should really know
their place and stick to their kiddie pools...
Talk about arrogant... You sound like a spoiled rotten teenager who
has never been told no!
Scotty


"QLW" wrote in message ...
I'm looking for a small trawler ( 30'+, hull speed boat) to add to my
Paceship, Prindle, Al. Jon boat and Carolina skiff. I'll never own a big
planning hull boat simply because of the high cost of operation. If you
spend the amount of time that I do on the water, fuel consumption becomes a
real issue. BTW Mr. Krause, If you can't effortlessly maneuver around a
sailboat traveling at hull speed when under sail or power maybe you're in
the wrong sport. Exactly how many times have you been "run down" by sail
boats? I have some really good video of "power boater" misbehavior /
incompetence from this summer and not one single instance of a hull speed
boat (sail or power) occurred for me to shoot. The Trawlers seemed
particularly well captained.

Here's what I said before, Y'all must have missed it.

"Unlike most weekend boaters, I live on the water and my dock and boats
(both
power and sail) are setup so that wake is not a problem. I also sometimes
make wake
with my fishing boat and seadoo right out in front of my house that affects
my and my neighbors boats and piers. OTH if there are people in boats out
in the narrow sections I slow down and in the wide sections I give them a
wide berth. I am mainly referring to large boats running past hull speed in
the canals that are designated 6 mph zones and other areas that common sense
should be enough to dictate a change in speed. I'll soon have a 30'+ power
boat in my boat house that will be capable of creating a large wake and I'll
have the courtesy not to inflict that wake on others. Out in the open bay,
wakes are not a concern. But it was not just the wakes that I've found to
separate planning hull boats from the hull speed bunch, it's an attitude
thing.

That's not to say that we didn't meet some friendly courteous power boaters
(remember, I'm one too) but we sure endured a bunch of jerks too. Like the
one 40 footer that came roaring past our two sail boats as we approached the
park docks on McGregor Island (1000 Islands) sending a huge wake into all of
the boats tied up at the docks. It looked like there was only one dock
space left and he was going to have it...everyone else be damned. As it
turned out, there was another boat traveling with him that did not have
enough room to get past us or just chose not to pull the same stupid stunt
and it pulled up outside the dock area and waited. There were actually
three dock spaces left but one was in really shallow water. We took the two
slips in deeper water but after checking the depth determined that I could
move to the shallow slip if my keel was up and we did that to allow the
other boat to dock. I wonder if the 1st jerk would have extended me the
same courtesy had the roles been reversed... I really doubt it. I can
relate many more instances in the same vein but won't waste the time...you
should get the drift.

Because I live on a fairly busy waterway and I spent a lot of time out on
the water, I see boater behavior on a daily basis and I can say without
fear of contradiction that planning hull power-boaters, as a group, are by
far the most discourteous, unseamanly and environmentally unfriendly of all
boater groups. I know that PWC can be a problem in some areas but they have
been a non-issue for us and we see a lot of them. I don't believe that I
should just "get over" bad behavior on the part of any group of people and
from this point on I'll take video and turn the jerks in when it is clear
that they are breaking an established set of rules. I did exactly that to
the commercial fishermen that were using our Bayou as a dumping ground for
their old boats. After the CG and Sheriff used my video to nab a few of
them, they no longer dump their boats...at least not in this bayou. It
really ****es me off that we have instituted a tough set of rules for the
PWC in Texas and yet let the big boats do far more damage without
consequence. 600' ships produce less wake than these idiots.
Hell, I don't mind waves or wakes. My boat can handle it. I often seek out
black clouds to sail under just to get really good rail down sailing. But
not in an anchorage, narrow channel or where my boat handling will adversely
affect other boats.

It's interesting to note that the other boat that accompanied us on this
trip is captained by a highly experienced man that has done professional
sal****er boat deliveries for years.( Mainly large power boats BTW) At one
point during the trip he said
"I know parts of Texas and Louisiana where these jerks would be running
around with numerous .30 cal leaks at the waterline if they behaved like
this very often".


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Clarence Bell wrote:

If you boat anywhere near Annapolis in the summer, you have to keep a
constant watch for discourteous sailboters who think nothing of running
you down if you are in their way. Or, the sailbot captains become dazed
by the heat and the inability of their crafts to move at hull speed.

Backyard Renegade wrote:



"QLW" wrote in message ...

BTW Mr. Krause, If you can't effortlessly maneuver around a
sailboat traveling at hull speed when under sail or power maybe you're in
the wrong sport. Exactly how many times have you been "run down" by sail
boats?

It sometimes is difficult to maneuver out of the way of a dazed
sailboter when your boat is not moving, except by wind, current and boat
wakes, because you are anchored.


* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

From: WaIIy

Also, it's good form to pass behind, not across the bow of a sailboat.

True which is my usual method of passing a sailboat whether under power or
sail. In my boating years I have found that most sailors (sailboats) are polite
and most wave back when I wave to them.

To each their own. I don't have the patience to be a sailboater I like to get
where I am going relatively quickly.

From: "Clarence Bell"

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

A sail boat with sail up but under power is considered a power boat until the
engine is shut down and they are under sail only. It is a commonly used ploy
here on the Great Lakes. Needless to say when passing a sail boat I try not to
rock the boat.

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

Unless I misunderstand the intent of your statement, you may have misused the
term "stand on". A recreational powerboat is only the "stand on" vessel in an
encounter with a vessel under sail in two (common) situations.

1) When being overtaken by a vessel under sail (Oh! The Shame of it all!)

2) When the power boat is participating in a VTS. (The rules just say that no
vessel under sail shall impede a power boat following a VTS, no requirement
that the power boat must be a commercial vessel)


(Some) sailors pull the same stunt around here, too. They will run with a
little pocket hanky of a sail showing, making seven knots under power, and
presume to behave
like nearby vessels are all subject to their
supposed "right of way" because they haven't completely doused the sails.

Worst language and manners I ever encountered on the water: A sailboat, totally
under power and without sail of *any* variety, was approaching at 90 degrees
from port. Our relative bearing did not change. We got closer and closer.
As the stand on vessel, I was required to maintain my course and speed unless a
collision was imminent. The sailor stared at me like I must have been out of my
mind. When it became apparent that he was not going to change course or speed
(as required) to avoid collision, I throttled back and put the wheel hard to
starboard.

He passed maybe 30 feet away. Against my better judgment, I reminded him
"You're just another powerboat when you
aren't running under sail!"

Wow! The gestures, the anger, the air turning blue! I thought the guy was going
to have a seizure. What an asshole. Maybe it was because I called him a
"powerboater"?

Worst almost crash with a sailboat was couple of years ago, I am trolling
and he is coming out of the Alameda Estuary channel under power. Turns off
motor raises sails and turns 90 degrees 30' in front of me. He says he is
under sail. Should have called the CG on him and reported the bad manners.
Then if he is in a collision with another boat, there is bad marks against
him

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front
of
the "stand-on" vessel.

Unless I misunderstand the intent of your statement, you may have misused
the
term "stand on". A recreational powerboat is only the "stand on" vessel in
an
encounter with a vessel under sail in two (common) situations.

1) When being overtaken by a vessel under sail (Oh! The Shame of it all!)

2) When the power boat is participating in a VTS. (The rules just say that
no
vessel under sail shall impede a power boat following a VTS, no
requirement
that the power boat must be a commercial vessel)


(Some) sailors pull the same stunt around here, too. They will run with a
little pocket hanky of a sail showing, making seven knots under power, and
presume to behave
like nearby vessels are all subject to their
supposed "right of way" because they haven't completely doused the sails.

Worst language and manners I ever encountered on the water: A sailboat,
totally
under power and without sail of *any* variety, was approaching at 90
degrees
from port. Our relative bearing did not change. We got closer and closer.
As the stand on vessel, I was required to maintain my course and speed
unless a
collision was imminent. The sailor stared at me like I must have been out
of my
mind. When it became apparent that he was not going to change course or
speed
(as required) to avoid collision, I throttled back and put the wheel hard
to
starboard.

He passed maybe 30 feet away. Against my better judgment, I reminded him
"You're just another powerboat when you
aren't running under sail!"

Wow! The gestures, the anger, the air turning blue! I thought the guy was
going
to have a seizure. What an asshole. Maybe it was because I called him a
"powerboater"?

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:41:52 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Worst almost crash with a sailboat was couple of years ago, I am trolling
and he is coming out of the Alameda Estuary channel under power. Turns off
motor raises sails and turns 90 degrees 30' in front of me. He says he is
under sail. Should have called the CG on him and reported the bad manners.
Then if he is in a collision with another boat, there is bad marks against
him


snip

He probably thought he was changing form from power to sail as the
rules apply.
He, like a lot of other boaters, didn't realize that boat form (sail
or power) is locked in the first instant of someone realizing there is
a chance of collision or a crossing/overtaking situation.
Or then again, he could just have been an asshole.
Mark Williams