On 26 Sep 2003 22:01:23 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Minn. High Court Allows Boat Searches

snipped scary article

Similar conditions have existed in New York State for some time. DEC
(Dept. of Environmental Conservation) Officers have far more power
than even the State Police. No warrant is required for home, vehicle,
or personal searches. Probable Cause is relegated to the intuition of
the officer, or a Ouija board, as the case may be.


....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

On 26 Sep 2003 20:14:14 -0500, noah
wrote:

On 26 Sep 2003 22:01:23 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Minn. High Court Allows Boat Searches

snipped scary article

Similar conditions have existed in New York State for some time. DEC
(Dept. of Environmental Conservation) Officers have far more power
than even the State Police. No warrant is required for home, vehicle,
or personal searches. Probable Cause is relegated to the intuition of
the officer, or a Ouija board, as the case may be.


...carry on.
noah


....an afterthought.

If we, as a nation, are ever deprived of our liberty, it won't be to
the likes of bin Laden or Hussein. We will offer it up, piecemeal, to
our "protectors", who will gladly take it. It will make things
"easier", right?


"Those who sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserve
neither."- Benjamin Franklin

....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

On 26 Sep 2003 21:06:16 -0500, noah
wrote:


"Those who sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserve
neither."- Benjamin Franklin

....or

"Those that suppress freedom always do so in the name of law and
order." - John Lindsay

....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

"noah" wrote in message
...
On 26 Sep 2003 21:06:16 -0500, noah
wrote:


"Those who sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserve
neither."- Benjamin Franklin

...or

"Those that suppress freedom always do so in the name of law and
order." - John Lindsay

...carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

Let me point out, gently, that the ability of DNR officers in Minnesota
to search boats was only overturned by a lower court last year. This is
a practice they have engaged in for many years. So don't get too upset.

del cecchi

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:53:29 -0500, "del cecchi"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On 26 Sep 2003 21:06:16 -0500, noah
wrote:


"Those who sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserve
neither."- Benjamin Franklin

...or

"Those that suppress freedom always do so in the name of law and
order." - John Lindsay

...carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

Let me point out, gently, that the ability of DNR officers in Minnesota
to search boats was only overturned by a lower court last year. This is
a practice they have engaged in for many years. So don't get too upset.

del cecchi


???. I'm not upset. My response concerned Gould's post.

NY DEC Officers are still quite capable of searching your boat, car,
house, garage, freezer, and Grandma's undies if they "suspect" you
have violated game laws. I abide by the game laws, but I resent the
intrusion into Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

Q: How do you eat an elephant?
A: One bite at a time.

....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

The most recent SCOTUS case on point is probably UNITED STATES v. ARVIZU
and they firmly established that in the case of a vehicle "probable cause" has
been watered down to "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being committed and
we all can only guess what a cop thinks is "reasonable". They are always a
little suspicious.
This is from the 2002 opinion, citing a 1975 case

"United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U. S. 873, 878 (1975), tilts in favor of
a standard less than probable cause in such cases, the Fourth Amendment is
satisfied if the officer's action is supported by reasonable suspicion to
believe that criminal activity "

It is always true that they can search, they have the gun. The only thing a
citizen can hope for is that a court tosses out any evidence they find. That
doesn't do anything for your privacy, inconvenience or damage to property.
Soverign immunity really makes it hard to sue them.

On 28 Sep 2003 04:15:55 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote:

The most recent SCOTUS case on point is probably UNITED STATES v. ARVIZU
and they firmly established that in the case of a vehicle "probable cause" has
been watered down to "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being committed and
we all can only guess what a cop thinks is "reasonable". They are always a
little suspicious.
This is from the 2002 opinion, citing a 1975 case

"United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U. S. 873, 878 (1975), tilts in favor of
a standard less than probable cause in such cases, the Fourth Amendment is
satisfied if the officer's action is supported by reasonable suspicion to
believe that criminal activity "

It is always true that they can search, they have the gun. The only thing a
citizen can hope for is that a court tosses out any evidence they find. That
doesn't do anything for your privacy, inconvenience or damage to property.
Soverign immunity really makes it hard to sue them.

Greg- thanks for the case info.

I don't object to law enforcement. Generally, it's there to protect
"us". What does puzzle me, 'fer instance, is why a fish-and-game
officer would have powers exceeding those of State and Local police?
Particularly involving search without a warrant.

Additionally, since 9/11, the Bill of Rights has taken a serious hit.
It doesn't have to be so, and I am wary of anyone telling me that they
are removing or "modifying" civil liberties in order to "protect me".
Protect me from who? Fanatics or politicians with an agenda?



....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

"noah" wrote in message
...


NY DEC Officers are still quite capable of searching your boat, car,
house, garage, freezer, and Grandma's undies if they "suspect" you
have violated game laws. I abide by the game laws, but I resent the
intrusion into Constitutionally guaranteed rights.


Question: If a DEC officer boards a boat containing sleeping people, at
night, and they bust in your door and are shot as intruders, does the court
consider the boat "your castle", as they would if you were in your house?

If a DEC officer boards a boat containing sleeping people, at
night, and they bust in your door and are shot as intruders, does the court
consider the boat "your castle"

The cops will be a lot more likely to shoot you, they are trained and wide
awake, with their guns at the ready. All reaching for your gun will do is give
them a reason to shoot.
Your wrongful death suit may address things like warrants and identifying
themselves prior to the entry but they will still win the gunfight.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:20:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"noah" wrote in message
.. .


NY DEC Officers are still quite capable of searching your boat, car,
house, garage, freezer, and Grandma's undies if they "suspect" you
have violated game laws. I abide by the game laws, but I resent the
intrusion into Constitutionally guaranteed rights.


Question: If a DEC officer boards a boat containing sleeping people, at
night, and they bust in your door and are shot as intruders, does the court
consider the boat "your castle", as they would if you were in your house?


Doug- I hate to be the one to tell you, but you don't *have* a castle
(at least when it comes to DEC). I suspect the same is true when it
comes to the Fed's, under the Patriot Act. While you were fishing,
they stole your Bill of Rights. )

Regards,
....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.