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Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
So I'm back to this question again. I thought we had it settled when we were
going to have someone else build us a trailer, but now that we're going to build it ourselves, all options are open again. I looked back at the answers from the April 10, 2003 thread "Trailer Brake Questions" and at other sources on the web. Any other information or comment would be welcome and appreciated. ELECTRIC BRAKES + More control over the braking + The brakes work in reverse, which might help at the ramp - Might cost more ? - Can't use in (salt) water (Some people said they use in water without problem. Maybe special/newer models) - Any tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. ELECTRIC over HYDRAULIC: This is where the controller is electric but that controlls a hydraulic master cylinder. + Still have the finer control of electiric. + The brakes work in reverse + No problem in water as the electric is no in the water. - Higher cost? - Tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. HYDRAULIC-SURGE: + Self contained on the trailer, no special wiring on vehicle + Works fine, possibly lower cost. + Can have free-backing brakes or reverse-lockout-solenoid so brakes are not active when backing. - Breaks do not work in reverse...which you might want on a steep/slippery ramp. - May be illegal in some states ?? QUESTION: On a hydraulic system, if there was any problem with one fitting or line would that mean the breaks on all four wheels (dual-axel trailer) would stop working? |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
QUESTION: On a hydraulic system, if there was any problem with one fitting or line would that mean the breaks on all four wheels (dual-axel trailer) would stop working? If the problem with the fitting allows all the fluid to be bled out of the master cylinder reservoir, then yes. All the wheel cylinders get their fluid supply from the master cylinder reservoir. The braking systems on each wheel are not isolated from each other. I've had exactly that happen. Had a small leak in a brake line connection somewhere on the trailer and didn't know about it. Eventually, the master cylinder reservoir was bled essentially dry. At that point, no trailer brakes. Makes for an interesting discovery on a 14K+ pound boat and trailer rig. Found the leaking connection, tightened it, refilled the reservoir, and was good to go again. System self bled the air in the lines during the next several braking attempts. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
I would highly recommend hydraulic-surge disk brakes. As you stated, can be
used on any vehicle. The disk are very maintenance free and work well. Problem with electric brakes as you pointed out is they only work on vehicles wired for them. Not many people will ever want a boat trailer that has electric brakes on it. -- Tony My boats and autos - http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "Gary Warner" wrote in message ... So I'm back to this question again. I thought we had it settled when we were going to have someone else build us a trailer, but now that we're going to build it ourselves, all options are open again. I looked back at the answers from the April 10, 2003 thread "Trailer Brake Questions" and at other sources on the web. Any other information or comment would be welcome and appreciated. ELECTRIC BRAKES + More control over the braking + The brakes work in reverse, which might help at the ramp - Might cost more ? - Can't use in (salt) water (Some people said they use in water without problem. Maybe special/newer models) - Any tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. ELECTRIC over HYDRAULIC: This is where the controller is electric but that controlls a hydraulic master cylinder. + Still have the finer control of electiric. + The brakes work in reverse + No problem in water as the electric is no in the water. - Higher cost? - Tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. HYDRAULIC-SURGE: + Self contained on the trailer, no special wiring on vehicle + Works fine, possibly lower cost. + Can have free-backing brakes or reverse-lockout-solenoid so brakes are not active when backing. - Breaks do not work in reverse...which you might want on a steep/slippery ramp. - May be illegal in some states ?? QUESTION: On a hydraulic system, if there was any problem with one fitting or line would that mean the breaks on all four wheels (dual-axel trailer) would stop working? |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Tony Thomas" wrote in I would highly recommend hydraulic-surge disk brakes. Yea, Hydraulic-Surge Disk is what we have "decided." But I'm one to keep looking at options down until the moment we actually order/pay for the things. Thanks for the advice. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
I run Kodiak disks on a single axle of my trailer. 4400# fully loaded. I
tow into the mountains, Sierra Nevada and other lakes around the SF Bay area. Coming back from Napa and Lake Berryessa this weekend, Long downhill portions and I tow with a 99 Expedition, was thinking how nice these brakes worked. No feel of ever running out of brakes on the tow vehicle, and the trailer not pushing the Exp around. bill "Gary Warner" wrote in message ... "Tony Thomas" wrote in I would highly recommend hydraulic-surge disk brakes. Yea, Hydraulic-Surge Disk is what we have "decided." But I'm one to keep looking at options down until the moment we actually order/pay for the things. Thanks for the advice. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Gary Warner" wrote in message ... ELECTRIC BRAKES + More control over the braking Electric brakes give you the option of reaching down and manually applying just the trailer brakes, which can help stabilize a swaying trailer. A very nice feature for top heavy RV trailers. The disadvantage of electrics is that the amount of braking applied to the trailer is NOT a function of how hard you are stepping on the brake pedal! The controller is sensitive to angle, so you can end up with way too much trailer brakes when going down a steep hill and no brakes when heading up a hill (which I suppose is better than the other way around....). The settings on the contoller is also a function of the trailer's weight. This is not a problem on a RV trailer, which doesn't change its weight very much. You might be a little surprised with the boat trailer on the first stop you make after launching the boat! For having the most appropriate amount of trailer brakes, you can't beat surge. They are self adjusting to trailer weight and allow the tow vehicle to be in control. The one disadvantage is that the trailer can "ride the brakes" when going down a step hill and you are using the engine to hold the speed down. + The brakes work in reverse, which might help at the ramp If they work at all, they would only work if you reached down and manually applied them, stepping on the brake pedal will do nothing. The electic brakes on my RV trailer do NOT work in reverse even when manually applied. The brakes work by having an electromagnet "stick" to the face of the brake drum. The rotation of the drum attempts to drag the magnet with it. The magent is attached to an arm that couples into the brake actuator. In reverse, the rotation of the wheel is the wrong way. I suppose that there are some systems that have the magnet arm rest in a center position, but if you want this feature make sure you get that style. - Might cost more ? Electrics are sure easy to install, especially if you have the appropriate flange on the axel. No matter what, you need to have the brake drums and backing plates. If you were converting an old trailer instead of buying new I would say electric is far cheaper because you don't have to change the tongue. - Can't use in (salt) water (Some people said they use in water without problem. Maybe special/newer models) I would certainly be concerned about the life of the magnets in salt water. - Any tow vehicle has to be wired for it. Most newer SUVs and trucks that come equipped with the factory "tow package" are prewired for the electric brake controls. If yours is one, check under the dash to see if there is a ~6 pin cable/connector tucked up under there. Then look in the glove box to see if the mating connector happens to be there! If not, you can buy the mating connector from anyplace that sells the brake controllers. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. On my RV trailer, I just wired it into the house battery. On a boat trailer, you will need to mount this battery in such a place that it won't get ruined by being dunked in the water. You can buy 12 volt dry cells that will last a couple of years and never needs charging. ELECTRIC over HYDRAULIC: This is where the controller is electric but that controlls a hydraulic master cylinder. I never understood this system, it seems like it combines the worst parts of both. If you go with electric brakes, consider the following: The electric brake controller only operates when your brake lights are lit. This means that an electrical failure in your stop light circuit will render your trailer brakes inoperative. The failure could be from either the stop light switch failing or from the fuse blowing. When you connect your boat trailer, you double the load on the brake light circuit. Twice the current that the brake light swtich has to operate on. Twice the current that the fuse has to hold. Add to that the potential that a short can easily develop in the trailer wiring, from such things as the connecting cable dragging on the ground or salt water getting into the lights. In order for the trailer brakes to work you have to have a fairly good electrical connection to the trailer. Ever have trouble getting the connector to work? Ever have to wiggle the connector a little bit before you had both brake and tail lights? Now add the brake circuit to that mix, except it isn't always easy to tell if you have connection, until you need the connection. And just wait until you have had some passenger wonder what that little knob does and plays with it while you were pumping gas! Damn, its embarrasing to have your trailer brakes lock up at the first stop light because some little kid played with the gain control on the brake controller! I have electric brakes on my RV trailer, and surge brakes on my boat trailer. I like them both, where they are. Rod McInnis |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... Some interesting points I hadn't heard before, particularly about how the weight of boat trailers changes with/without the boat. Thannks. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
Gary Warner wrote in message ... "Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... Some interesting points I hadn't heard before, particularly about how the weight of boat trailers changes with/without the boat. Thannks. Surge brakes now have my respect. During my recent trip towing a boat to Florida from Ma, a gas tanker truck driver suddenly decided to attempt to take an exit from the middle lane of a five lane section of I-95. I happened to be about 300 feet behind him as he failed to make the exit and ended up blocking the middle and right lanes. I was doing about 65 mph, and with traffic to the left and right, there was nothing left to do but stand on the brake and hold my breath. The truck and trailer (equipped with hydraulic surge brakes) stopped straight as an arrow, about 4 feet from the stopped gas tanker. Also have to give credit to the anti-lock system on the truck. Eisboch |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
I also vote for surge brakes but there were a few things about
electric that were incorrect or at least misleading. I have a travel trailer with electric brakes. They do work in reverse. In fact they work so well in reverse that I have to turn them off when backing as it becomes very difficult to back into my home parking spot with them on. Some electric controllers use a pendulum and they may not work in reverse. Other controllers simply are tapped into your brake lights. When your brake lights are on the controller is applying braking voltage to the trailer. Since every car or truck I've ever seen has brake lights that work in reverse, this type controller would also work in reverse. With most any controller it is a simple thumb wheel adjustment to change the sensitivity of the electric braking. The adjustment on surge brakes is not at your fingertips. If you remember to do it, it's a simple thing to turn them off when you have launched your boat so as not to skid your tires when you are parking the empty trailer. Don't forget to turn them back on when you put your boat back on!! I still vote for surge but electric have moved up in my opinion from years ago. Peace! Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Dan D." wrote in message om... I have a travel trailer with electric brakes. They do work in reverse. In fact they work so well in reverse that I have to turn them off when backing as it becomes very difficult to back into my home parking spot with them on. Why is that, do you keep your foot on the brake when you back up? Some electric controllers use a pendulum and they may not work in reverse. Other controllers simply are tapped into your brake lights. When your brake lights are on the controller is applying braking voltage to the trailer. I have never seen a controller like this, can you provide a brand name? I have seen three different types of controllers: Long ago, you used to be able to get a little pad thingy that strapped over the top of your brake pedal. When you stepped on the brake, you stepped on this pad and it sensed how hard you were pressing on the brake pedal and applied the trailer brakes accordingly. There was still a controller just under the dash where you adjusted how much trailer brakes for how much pedal pressure. I am not sure why these went away, but I can imagin it was because brake pedals got smaller and they may have had interference problems. There are controllers that tap into the tow vehicles hydraulic brake system and will sense the pressure in the hydraulic line. This would be ideal for controlling the trailer brakes! Years ago, when cars had simple brake systems, this type of controller was easy to install and no problems. Then cars started having dual master cylinders. Then cars starting having front disk and rear drum, and had proportioning valves. Then anti lock braking was introduced. The bottom line is that you could be taking a big risk to make any modifications to the brake system, and I have been told that it is illegal to do so. The most common controller is the pendulum type. It uses the pendulum to sense the decelleration of the car, and if the brake lights are also on, it applies the trailer brakes. Which of course increases the decelleration, which increases the trailer brakes, which increases the decelleration, etc.... I have never seen a system that simply applied the trailer brakes whenever the stop light was on. First off, such a controller would only have one setting. On a panic stop, you really want those trailer brakes to work to their fullest extent. On the other hand, you sure don't want the trailer to drag you to a quick stop just because you tapped the brakes slightly. On the pendulum type, if you adjusted it incorrectly you could get the results of what you describe. Crank the pendulum level so that it was always on, then adjust the gain to get the desired level of braking. Like I said above, you would only have the one setting, so you would not be getting the full use of the brakes. Most of the pendulum controllers have a two-color LED that provides status and feedback. On mine, the LED is off when there is no connection to the trailer. When the trailer is connected, but no brakes are applied, the led is GREEN. Step on the brake and the led will change towards red based on the pendulum setting. To properly adjust the unit, you start with the rig on flat ground, at a stand still. With your foot on the brake, adjust the LEVEL control until the LED just changes from GREEN to a dim red. Now, with your foot very lightly on the brake, let the rig roll forward and adjust the GAIN setting so that you can just barely detect the trailer brakes (usually the squeek....). This is a good place to start. The pendulum level setting is usually right on now, so any further adjustments are on the gain. Crank it up if you like to feel the trailer holding you back on a normal stop. Lower the gain if your trailer tends to drag you to a faster stop than you wanted. Rod McInnis |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Rod McInnis" wrote
: : I have never seen a system that simply applied the trailer brakes whenever : the stop light was on. First off, such a controller would only have one : setting. On a panic stop, you really want those trailer brakes to work to : their fullest extent. On the other hand, you sure don't want the trailer to : drag you to a quick stop just because you tapped the brakes slightly. : My last controller was a pure electric - called a 'timed' controller, that provides the trailer brake voltage slowly from low to high. Useless in a panic stop, overheats at stoplights, cheap. Had a big panic button and a large timing selector. Couldn't tell you the name - burned it in a campfire after coming down the Cajon Pass for the first time. Goes to show how one can hang ones ass out from lack of askin' 'round for a clue. Gotta Prodigy now and am most pleased. Dave |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.htm
The link above may be of interest. DB "Gary Warner" wrote in message ... So I'm back to this question again. I thought we had it settled when we were going to have someone else build us a trailer, but now that we're going to build it ourselves, all options are open again. I looked back at the answers from the April 10, 2003 thread "Trailer Brake Questions" and at other sources on the web. Any other information or comment would be welcome and appreciated. ELECTRIC BRAKES + More control over the braking + The brakes work in reverse, which might help at the ramp - Might cost more ? - Can't use in (salt) water (Some people said they use in water without problem. Maybe special/newer models) - Any tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. ELECTRIC over HYDRAULIC: This is where the controller is electric but that controlls a hydraulic master cylinder. + Still have the finer control of electiric. + The brakes work in reverse + No problem in water as the electric is no in the water. - Higher cost? - Tow vehicle has to be wired for it. - Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the brakes in an emergency separation. HYDRAULIC-SURGE: + Self contained on the trailer, no special wiring on vehicle + Works fine, possibly lower cost. + Can have free-backing brakes or reverse-lockout-solenoid so brakes are not active when backing. - Breaks do not work in reverse...which you might want on a steep/slippery ramp. - May be illegal in some states ?? QUESTION: On a hydraulic system, if there was any problem with one fitting or line would that mean the breaks on all four wheels (dual-axel trailer) would stop working? |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
Hi Gary,
I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic, with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer). We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work, even without a boat. The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was tight). Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas how to stop this next time? My 2¢ My vote's for standard hydraulic as well. Reason: KISS Hope I helped. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
On 29 Sep 2003 17:08:44 -0500, Donny wrote:
Hi Gary, I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic, with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer). We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work, even without a boat. The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was tight). The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there are NO SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much (when loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the bumps in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a basketball. Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would have to pump them up again before loading. JJ Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas how to stop this next time? My 2¢ My vote's for standard hydraulic as well. Reason: KISS Hope I helped. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html James Johnson remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
Donny,
Glad to hear of your good trailer experience. I have just one comment: Keep the tire pressure up to maximum rated psi and let the springs or torsion bars do their job to smooth out the ride. Emergency handling and reduced tendency to fishtail will fare better with higher pressure.=20 On my own trailer with 2700lb load, I was told by the trailer = manufacturer who in turn got it from the tire manufacturer that if I reduced pressure from 50PSI to 35PSI the load rating for each tire would reduce from 1750 lbs to 1100 lbs. I'd rather have the extra capacity and stability so I keep the tires at 60PSI. The boat is riding easier with tandem axles and equalizers = anyway. I like the hydraulic disc surge brakes too. lorendi On 29 Sep 2003 17:08:44 -0500, Donny wrote: Hi Gary, I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic, with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer). We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work, even without a boat.=20 The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was tight). Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas how to stop this next time? My 2=A2 My vote's for standard hydraulic as well. Reason: KISS Hope I helped. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html Margaret & Loren Block Georgetown, TX C22 #14903 "Perfect Harmony" |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there are NO
SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much (when loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the bumps in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a basketball. Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would have to pump them up again before loading. JJ Hi JJ, It's a torsion bar suspension, not leaves, but that probably doesn't matter. Spring is a spring, right. This wasn't so much bouncing as it was a sort of vibration. When I looked in the mirror, you could see the frame doing a very slight but quick, wave like action, almost like a guitar string, for lack of a better analogy. I bet it has something to do with the overall harmonics of the trailer frame, I just wonder if there was a way to stop it. And how about the VERY slight play between the square hitch tube and the hitch bar with the ball on it. How do I take up that slack without welding it? It's such a tight space. Thanks. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
Donny,
Glad to hear of your good trailer experience. I have just one comment: Keep the tire pressure up to maximum rated psi and let the springs or torsion bars do their job to smooth out the ride. Emergency handling and reduced tendency to fishtail will fare better with higher pressure. On my own trailer with 2700lb load, I was told by the trailer manufacturer who in turn got it from the tire manufacturer that if I reduced pressure from 50PSI to 35PSI the load rating for each tire would reduce from 1750 lbs to 1100 lbs. I'd rather have the extra capacity and stability so I keep the tires at 60PSI. The boat is riding easier with tandem axles and equalizers anyway. I like the hydraulic disc surge brakes too. lorendi Hi Lorendi, This was towing an unloaded boat trailer home from a dealer, no boat. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the flexibility of the aluminum frame. I was just looking for ways to offer up an answer for the next newbie who has to tow an empty trailer a few hours, because I really don't see us ever towing it unloaded any farther than from the ramp to the parking lot. Thanks! Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
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Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
I have a travel trailer with electric brakes.
They do work in reverse. In fact they work so well in reverse that I have to turn them off when backing as it becomes very difficult to back into my home parking spot with them on. Why is that, do you keep your foot on the brake when you back up? Rod, my home parking spot is slightly downhill. I'm usually backing up with my foot on the brake. This applies too much trailer brake and stops me. I let off the brake - they release - I lurch back and hit the pedal again.... So I roll off the brakes with the thumb wheel and park it! When your brake lights are on the controller is applying braking voltage to the trailer. I have never seen a controller like this, can you provide a brand name? First, my travel trailer is small and light. About 2200 lbs loaded. So I went for the cheap controller. As I said it simply applies voltage anytime the brake lights are on. You set the amount of voltage with the thumb wheel. They are not smart brakes ie they apply at the setting of the thumb wheel no matter if you are rolling up gently or in a panic stop. They're fine for most situations with my LIGHT weight trailer. I would not advise them for a heavy trailer or boat. I'm at work ;-) and do not remember the brand name but I'm quite sure most any trailer or RV store would have them. Just ask for the cheapest controller he has. I think it was about 60 bucks. If you want a name send me an email and I'll gladly dig out my papers and send you the manufacturer. kydan at myrealbox dot com It has the LEDs like mentioned in another post. Green means it is connected to the trailer. Yellow is light braking. Red is heavy breaking but you will not see red unless you turn up the thumb wheel. Also earlier in this thread I think someone said electric brakes wouldn't work in reverse because of the way the brake shoes face or something. I guess they were talking about "leading or trailing" shoes. My trailer brakes act like they want to lock up in reverse but work just fine in forward directions. This is why I turn mine off for backing. Remember I'm in a trailer. I'm not backing down a steep boat ramp!! I repeat -- my trailer is light weight. I would want surge or pendulum control electric if I had a bigger rig. Peace! Dan D. Louisville KY good ole USA |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Donny" wrote in message ... The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there are NO SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much (when loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the bumps in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a basketball. Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would have to pump them up again before loading. JJ Hi JJ, It's a torsion bar suspension, not leaves, but that probably doesn't matter. Spring is a spring, right. This wasn't so much bouncing as it was a sort of vibration. When I looked in the mirror, you could see the frame doing a very slight but quick, wave like action, almost like a guitar string, for lack of a better analogy. I bet it has something to do with the overall harmonics of the trailer frame, I just wonder if there was a way to stop it. And how about the VERY slight play between the square hitch tube and the hitch bar with the ball on it. How do I take up that slack without welding it? It's such a tight space. Thanks. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html There is a rubber snubber that goes on the tube. maybe Bass Pro shops or Cabelas carries them. OR try Champion trailers. Bill |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"Dan D." wrote in message m... I have a travel trailer with electric brakes. They do work in reverse. In fact they work so well in reverse that I have to turn them off when backing as it becomes very difficult to back into my home parking spot with them on. Why is that, do you keep your foot on the brake when you back up? Rod, my home parking spot is slightly downhill. I'm usually backing up with my foot on the brake. This applies too much trailer brake and stops me. I let off the brake - they release - I lurch back and hit the pedal again.... So I roll off the brakes with the thumb wheel and park it! When your brake lights are on the controller is applying braking voltage to the trailer. I have never seen a controller like this, can you provide a brand name? First, my travel trailer is small and light. About 2200 lbs loaded. So I went for the cheap controller. As I said it simply applies voltage anytime the brake lights are on. You set the amount of voltage with the thumb wheel. They are not smart brakes ie they apply at the setting of the thumb wheel no matter if you are rolling up gently or in a panic stop. They're fine for most situations with my LIGHT weight trailer. I would not advise them for a heavy trailer or boat. I'm at work ;-) and do not remember the brand name but I'm quite sure most any trailer or RV store would have them. Just ask for the cheapest controller he has. I think it was about 60 bucks. If you want a name send me an email and I'll gladly dig out my papers and send you the manufacturer. kydan at myrealbox dot com It has the LEDs like mentioned in another post. Green means it is connected to the trailer. Yellow is light braking. Red is heavy breaking but you will not see red unless you turn up the thumb wheel. Also earlier in this thread I think someone said electric brakes wouldn't work in reverse because of the way the brake shoes face or something. I guess they were talking about "leading or trailing" shoes. My trailer brakes act like they want to lock up in reverse but work just fine in forward directions. This is why I turn mine off for backing. Remember I'm in a trailer. I'm not backing down a steep boat ramp!! I repeat -- my trailer is light weight. I would want surge or pendulum control electric if I had a bigger rig. Peace! Dan D. Louisville KY good ole USA My boat/trailer is heavy--12,500LBS. I have a triple trailer with stainless discs with an electric over hydraulic controller. Having used surge on numerous trailer, I would never go back--much smoother braking, and you do have braking backing down--if wanted, none for backing uphill unless needed. And, in some states and where I tow in Canada, you must be able to control the towed vehicles brakes from the towing vehicle. I use the Carlisle "Hydrostar" but there are others. Good boating, Danlw. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
My boat/trailer is heavy--12,500LBS. I have a triple trailer with stainless discs with an electric over hydraulic controller. Having used surge on numerous trailer, I would never go back--much smoother braking, and you do have braking backing down--if wanted, none for backing uphill unless needed. And, in some states and where I tow in Canada, you must be able to control the towed vehicles brakes from the towing vehicle. I use the Carlisle "Hydrostar" but there are others. Good boating, Danlw. I looked into that system when I bought my boat and trailer 4 years ago. Thought it had interesting potential. But at that time, they didn't have a controller that could accommodate heavy loads (my boat/trailer is 14,200 pounds). Also couldn't find anybody in the trailer business that had any experience with the Carlisle system. So I ended up with a traditional surge/drum system on all three axles. Gets the job done, but I'm sure there are better options. How long have you had yours? What sort of controller do you have in the tow vehicle? You sound pretty happy with it. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
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"RG" wrote in message news:jRreb.8977$Rd4.7010@fed1read07... My boat/trailer is heavy--12,500LBS. I have a triple trailer with stainless discs with an electric over hydraulic controller. Having used surge on numerous trailer, I would never go back--much smoother braking, and you do have braking backing down--if wanted, none for backing uphill unless needed. And, in some states and where I tow in Canada, you must be able to control the towed vehicles brakes from the towing vehicle. I use the Carlisle "Hydrostar" but there are others. Good boating, Danlw. I looked into that system when I bought my boat and trailer 4 years ago. Thought it had interesting potential. But at that time, they didn't have a controller that could accommodate heavy loads (my boat/trailer is 14,200 pounds). Also couldn't find anybody in the trailer business that had any experience with the Carlisle system. So I ended up with a traditional surge/drum system on all three axles. Gets the job done, but I'm sure there are better options. How long have you had yours? What sort of controller do you have in the tow vehicle? You sound pretty happy with it. |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
"NOYB" wrote in message om... The skeg guard advertisements have hot women, so they have to be good. Fascinating. In so much as non sequiturs go. Do you often find yourself drilling in the wrong tooth? |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
There is a rubber snubber that goes on the tube. maybe Bass Pro shops or
Cabelas carries them. OR try Champion trailers. Bill Thanks, Bill, I'll check on that. Donny 1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25' www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html |
Trailer Brakes: Electric vs Hydraulic-Surge
My boat/trailer is heavy--12,500LBS. I have a triple trailer with stainless discs with an electric over hydraulic controller. Having used surge on numerous trailer, I would never go back--much smoother braking, and you do have braking backing down--if wanted, none for backing uphill unless needed. And, in some states and where I tow in Canada, you must be able to control the towed vehicles brakes from the towing vehicle. I use the Carlisle "Hydrostar" but there are others. Good boating, Danlw. I looked into that system when I bought my boat and trailer 4 years ago. Thought it had interesting potential. But at that time, they didn't have a controller that could accommodate heavy loads (my boat/trailer is 14,200 pounds). Also couldn't find anybody in the trailer business that had any experience with the Carlisle system. So I ended up with a traditional surge/drum system on all three axles. Gets the job done, but I'm sure there are better options. How long have you had yours? What sort of controller do you have in the tow vehicle? You sound pretty happy with it. RG, I have had it for three years. I had it on a tandom trailer with standard drums, took it off and put the surge unit back on when I sold. Put it on this trailer in April, have 4000 miles on the trailer. My truck has a standard Kelsey-Hayes controler left over from a travel trailer. I really like the ability to adjust the brakes--back them off a little for the open road, back up for traffic and, at minimum setting, it works great with the trailer empty-- no lock-ups. My trailer is aluminum I-beam, otherwise I would be at about 14,000 LB also. Happy towing! Danlw |
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