Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:01:19 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

That might not be a bad idea to split them. But make no mistake, Obama
is trying to scape goat them. Wants to look tough going into Novemeber
for the PR of it.

I only hope the PR drives their stock down so I can get some cheap.
$10 would do it, $5 would be great.

Come on baby, papa needs a new boat!


Heh..

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:10:56 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 11:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:34:40 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:01:19 -0600,
wrote:

That might not be a bad idea to split them. But make no mistake,
Obama
is trying to scape goat them. Wants to look tough going into
Novemeber
for the PR of it.

I only hope the PR drives their stock down so I can get some cheap.
$10 would do it, $5 would be great.

Come on baby, papa needs a new boat!

Hahaha, you have the right idea. To steal the phrase, "That baby has
to
pay daddy!"

Think, if you bought GS when Obama got elected, you would be up 300%.

Heck, if it drops to $100 just might. But somehow don't think we will
see $5/share.


GS-A was $20.90 Friday, down about $2 in 2 days. It had been a $25
stock before the crash and dropped like a stone a couple years ago
with everything else. It recovered to $20-22 range. There is no reason
to believe it won't be back again as long as nothing serious happens
to Goldman and I don't expect it to.

Those are depositary shares. The common is GS. Don't know enough to
comment on depositary shares. But a quick look shows they might be
interesting if your after foreign content. But much would depend what
companies it represents and the details as I like a certain amount of
foreign content these days. If the Chinese ever let the Yuan float, the
USD would fall.


I was just looking for the shares with the most volatility
The preferred stock fit that bill.

Preferred's all over the board are being hit. As the interest rates may be
suspect.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:57:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:25:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:16:15 -0400, wrote:

My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

I'm probably missing something here but I believe you should be able
to roll over any amount of 401 money into an IRA without any tax
liability.

I would want it out and pay the taxes now before the rates really go
up.
Maybe a Roth but I am thinking I will just run t myself.
One of these days somebody is going to decide the deficit is important
and that tax deferred money is just way too attractive.


There are no tax consequences... you have 60 days to roll it to an IRA.
Withdrawing money from an IRA incurs a tax liability at whatever rate
you're
at. A ROTH is taxed initially, then tax free when you take out the money.

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..


I certainly agree. Unfortunately, converting IRAs to Roths is a tricky
business, since there's an income cap (or was). You also have to assume that
the value of the investment will exceed the cost of the conversion. I'm
guessing you're retired (mostly?), so the income issue wouldn't be a
concern.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging themselves
in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have reported
income over that amount.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:07:18 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:



So is what you are saying is Obama is misusing the powers of his office
to pick on companies that contribute to GOP?

well, both the GOP and those companies are criminal activities.

so why not?

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:22:00 -0400, wrote:

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..

Although I understand your concerns for the future, it is generally
not a good idea to pull money out of a 401 unless you roll it over to
an IRA.

There are at least two good reasons for that advice:

1. In a 401 or IRA you can adjust your portfolio at any time without
regard for the tax consequences. This is a huge advantage when
considering whether or not to lighten up on equities in the face of a
major market decline.

2. Your gains compound forward without a tax hit. I'm sure you're
aware of that, but do the math sometime and get an appreciation for
how much difference it makes over time.

It is true that a Roth IRA confers the same advantages but, you have
to be eligible for a Roth IRA, and you will take a one-time tax hit on
the conversion. It's important to remember that the tax status of a
Roth IRA could change in the future also.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:40:43 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

I was just looking for the shares with the most volatility
The preferred stock fit that bill.

Preferred's all over the board are being hit. As the interest rates may be
suspect.

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 12:57 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:25:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:16:15 -0400, wrote:

My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

I'm probably missing something here but I believe you should be able
to roll over any amount of 401 money into an IRA without any tax
liability.

I would want it out and pay the taxes now before the rates really go
up.
Maybe a Roth but I am thinking I will just run t myself.
One of these days somebody is going to decide the deficit is important
and that tax deferred money is just way too attractive.


There are no tax consequences... you have 60 days to roll it to an IRA.
Withdrawing money from an IRA incurs a tax liability at whatever rate you're
at. A ROTH is taxed initially, then tax free when you take out the money.

But if I remeber correctly, ROTH is only tax free on principle and for
gains you have to waith until 59 1/2 or something.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:57:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:25:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:16:15 -0400, wrote:

My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

I'm probably missing something here but I believe you should be able
to roll over any amount of 401 money into an IRA without any tax
liability.

I would want it out and pay the taxes now before the rates really go
up.
Maybe a Roth but I am thinking I will just run t myself.
One of these days somebody is going to decide the deficit is important
and that tax deferred money is just way too attractive.


There are no tax consequences... you have 60 days to roll it to an IRA.
Withdrawing money from an IRA incurs a tax liability at whatever rate you're
at. A ROTH is taxed initially, then tax free when you take out the money.

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..

That might not be a good idea unless you are over 59 1/2 or something.
There are penalties for just hauling it out before that.
--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:21:27 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask.
I suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

I want to just pay that tax now, not wait to see what happens later. I
do not believe that BS that the tax will be lower later, particularly
since the tax rate is lower than it ever was. That will change.
I am going to get a good look at my tax position and the value of the
401k later this year and make a decision then. I may split it up, put
some in a Roth, take some out and leave the rest alone till next year.

I will predict they will raise taxes but two things to consider.

First, it will not be for long, it will crater the econonomy. I give it
2-3 years and it will come back down. Especially if you get a cost
cutting repulican in 2012 with a right wing congress with lots of new faces.

Second, in retirement your income and taxes will plumet. No more
employment taxes and what you do pull is taxed in the lower bracket.

Say you had $500k in cash yeilding 5%.
And you had a IRA/401k yeilding 5%.

Then take out $25 cash and $30k IRA/401k, split income with wife and pay
very little taxes as it is mostly dividends and interest. If the greedy
buggers do what they do in Canada, tax back the governemnt pension if
you make over $55k you are sitting in the sweet spot.

One hazard of having investments outside of IRA/401k is it is hard to
predict your taxable income. Say some stock gets bought out and clocks
you with a $80k gain? If the IRA grows, you pull out just to top out
to the lower tax rates.

Mind you, if you plan to leave the USA for the rest of your life and
forget Obamanation, slid it out on Dec 31st and Jan 1st to at least
split it in half over two years. Get much past a upper middle class
income and you can feel the tax screws turn on your head.
--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask. I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then?
In an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of
the equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 12:58 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least that's
my reaction anyway.

He would be better off to use a table like this to decide what tax rate
he is better off with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

33% federal (state extra) is at $171k. Pretty steep grab considering
state and employment taxes extra. 33% at $104k if you are married and
you both have incomes.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 3:41 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging themselves
in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have reported
income over that amount.

Here is a way to beat the tax screwing if you are NOT an American
citizen. Move to a low tax rate country in retirement, Costa Rica and
Panama will do well.

Then yank the whole thing out at one and only pay a flat 25% foreigner
rate. Forget 33% plus state taxes beyond horse ****.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:22:00 -0400, wrote:

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..

Although I understand your concerns for the future, it is generally
not a good idea to pull money out of a 401 unless you roll it over to
an IRA.

There are at least two good reasons for that advice:

1. In a 401 or IRA you can adjust your portfolio at any time without
regard for the tax consequences. This is a huge advantage when
considering whether or not to lighten up on equities in the face of a
major market decline.

2. Your gains compound forward without a tax hit. I'm sure you're
aware of that, but do the math sometime and get an appreciation for
how much difference it makes over time.

It is true that a Roth IRA confers the same advantages but, you have
to be eligible for a Roth IRA, and you will take a one-time tax hit on
the conversion. It's important to remember that the tax status of a
Roth IRA could change in the future also.


Absolutely correct. Although I doubt they'll change the tax status of the
Roth very much, you never know.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask.
I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then? In
an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of the
equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


As usual, you don't know much about business or saving.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 3:41 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging
themselves
in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have reported
income over that amount.

Here is a way to beat the tax screwing if you are NOT an American citizen.
Move to a low tax rate country in retirement, Costa Rica and Panama will
do well.

Then yank the whole thing out at one and only pay a flat 25% foreigner
rate. Forget 33% plus state taxes beyond horse ****.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Why don't you move to Somalia! I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:58 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

He would be better off to use a table like this to decide what tax rate he
is better off with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

33% federal (state extra) is at $171k. Pretty steep grab considering
state and employment taxes extra. 33% at $104k if you are married and you
both have incomes.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


You've got to be truly stupid. That's the only excuse. Really. I guess you
never heard of deductions. Sheez.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:40:43 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

I was just looking for the shares with the most volatility
The preferred stock fit that bill.

Preferred's all over the board are being hit. As the interest rates may
be
suspect.

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.


Yeah, you really have to be careful with bonds, as you said. If you're in
your 50s/60s, you should still be significantly in stocks (not individual
stocks unless you're able to take the time to really check out companies ala
Warren Buffet style).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask.
I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then? In
an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of the
equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

You could put more money in a 401k than an IRA would be one reason. And
watch what you invest the IRA in.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging themselves
in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have reported
income over that amount.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Why not **** about the excess taxes when you make +$250k? You must never
had a great year as an attorney. When the state and Feds take about 1/2
your money you have a bought the right to bitch. If you are a California
resident married, no children at home and lets say you get a windfall of
$200 stock option. The Feds will take 35% taxes, 1.5% Medicare tax and the
State of California will take 10%. Nice, $46.5% of your money just went to
government entities. Where a family of 4 making $50k pays no income tax.
They and their kids get a free ride. No wonder they like Obama and
government stimulus checks, and spending. They forget that the excess
spending is going to cause inflation and massive debt for those children.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:40:43 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

I was just looking for the shares with the most volatility
The preferred stock fit that bill.

Preferred's all over the board are being hit. As the interest rates may
be
suspect.

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.

I think they already been hit. Got out of most my preferreds a few months
ago.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:57:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:25:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:16:15 -0400, wrote:

My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

I'm probably missing something here but I believe you should be able
to roll over any amount of 401 money into an IRA without any tax
liability.

I would want it out and pay the taxes now before the rates really go
up.
Maybe a Roth but I am thinking I will just run t myself.
One of these days somebody is going to decide the deficit is important
and that tax deferred money is just way too attractive.


There are no tax consequences... you have 60 days to roll it to an IRA.
Withdrawing money from an IRA incurs a tax liability at whatever rate
you're
at. A ROTH is taxed initially, then tax free when you take out the
money.

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..

That might not be a good idea unless you are over 59 1/2 or something.
There are penalties for just hauling it out before that.
--


No penalties if rolling in to a Roth.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:20:59 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.

I think they already been hit. Got out of most my preferreds a few months
ago.

They will get worse, quite possibly a lot worse. Back in the early
80s you could buy rock solid preferreds for less than 50% of par value
and yielding close to 15% annually. They all payed off at par
eventually as interest rates came down.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't
over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask.
I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then? In
an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of
the equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

You could put more money in a 401k than an IRA would be one reason. And
watch what you invest the IRA in.

Maybe... there are Sep-IRAs, however.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging
themselves in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have
reported income over that amount.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Why not **** about the excess taxes when you make +$250k? You must never
had a great year as an attorney. When the state and Feds take about 1/2
your money you have a bought the right to bitch. If you are a California
resident married, no children at home and lets say you get a windfall of
$200 stock option. The Feds will take 35% taxes, 1.5% Medicare tax and
the State of California will take 10%. Nice, $46.5% of your money just
went to government entities. Where a family of 4 making $50k pays no
income tax. They and their kids get a free ride. No wonder they like
Obama and government stimulus checks, and spending. They forget that the
excess spending is going to cause inflation and massive debt for those
children.



Blah, blah from you. We all know you're never going to be in the over $250K
category. So, you're the one bitchin about a tax break. Dumb is as dumb is.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't
over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would
ask. I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In
which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then? In
an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of
the equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

You could put more money in a 401k than an IRA would be one reason. And
watch what you invest the IRA in.

Maybe... there are Sep-IRAs, however.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Special Case. SEP == Self Employed Pension. If you do not have a business,
then no SEP.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging
themselves in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually have
reported income over that amount.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Why not **** about the excess taxes when you make +$250k? You must never
had a great year as an attorney. When the state and Feds take about 1/2
your money you have a bought the right to bitch. If you are a California
resident married, no children at home and lets say you get a windfall of
$200 stock option. The Feds will take 35% taxes, 1.5% Medicare tax and
the State of California will take 10%. Nice, $46.5% of your money just
went to government entities. Where a family of 4 making $50k pays no
income tax. They and their kids get a free ride. No wonder they like
Obama and government stimulus checks, and spending. They forget that the
excess spending is going to cause inflation and massive debt for those
children.



Blah, blah from you. We all know you're never going to be in the over
$250K category. So, you're the one bitchin about a tax break. Dumb is as
dumb is.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I am more likely to have been in that catagory than a failed "patent"
attorney.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:20:59 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.

I think they already been hit. Got out of most my preferreds a few months
ago.

They will get worse, quite possibly a lot worse. Back in the early
80s you could buy rock solid preferreds for less than 50% of par value
and yielding close to 15% annually. They all payed off at par
eventually as interest rates came down.

Yes. Citi was paying me 13% if I remember correctly.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:40:21 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I certainly agree. Unfortunately, converting IRAs to Roths is a tricky
business, since there's an income cap (or was). You also have to assume
that
the value of the investment will exceed the cost of the conversion. I'm
guessing you're retired (mostly?), so the income issue wouldn't be a
concern.

--

It is really something where I need some guidance.
That was what happened last time. I had 3 people telling me different
things and I ended up stalling into the crash.
It is amazing


There are a few ways to proceed really. You can get partial advice from a
Fidelity or possibly Vanguard, plus your own due diligence. They don't work
on commission, but they'll try to talk you into a managed portfolio (this
isn't so terrible, as I have an attorney friend who went that route and is
doing fine). You can do all your own research at places like The Motley
Fool. You can also use a financial advisor, but I'd suggest a fee-based
person vs. someone selling a product. You can find them through the personal
financial advisors' professional association (napfa.org). I'd stay away from
things like annuities (unless you're in your 80s) or anything that sounds
overly complicated.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:01:56 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Second, in retirement your income and taxes will plumet.


I have been somewhat retired since 1996. I had some gigs but they were
sole proprietor contracts and I have a pretty sharp pencil on a
schedule C.
The problem is my wife makes a lot of money

Well it is not that big a problem I guess ;-)


Definitely nothing wrong with being a kept man I suppose... suggestion:
continue to be nice to her. :)

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and
the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it
into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't
over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit.
The key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would
ask. I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In
which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then?
In an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of
the equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

You could put more money in a 401k than an IRA would be one reason. And
watch what you invest the IRA in.

Maybe... there are Sep-IRAs, however.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Special Case. SEP == Self Employed Pension. If you do not have a
business, then no SEP.

Which is why I said "maybe." Oh wow... I have a business. I guess I know
something about it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:sv7at5trllmm8aa7fgcf4c7osrn91cdcen@4ax. com...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and
the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.


Untrue. It's a small increase. Those over $250K hardly care. At least
that's
my reaction anyway.

If you really "make" over $250k I agree but if you just get slammed
into the $250k bracket for a one time thing it seems more painful. I
do understand there are averaging tricks but I am trying to keep it
simple if I can.



Anyone who is close to the $250K line isn't going to be hanging
themselves in the garage over the tax diff. if they should actually
have reported income over that amount.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Why not **** about the excess taxes when you make +$250k? You must
never had a great year as an attorney. When the state and Feds take
about 1/2 your money you have a bought the right to bitch. If you are a
California resident married, no children at home and lets say you get a
windfall of $200 stock option. The Feds will take 35% taxes, 1.5%
Medicare tax and the State of California will take 10%. Nice, $46.5% of
your money just went to government entities. Where a family of 4 making
$50k pays no income tax. They and their kids get a free ride. No wonder
they like Obama and government stimulus checks, and spending. They
forget that the excess spending is going to cause inflation and massive
debt for those children.



Blah, blah from you. We all know you're never going to be in the over
$250K category. So, you're the one bitchin about a tax break. Dumb is as
dumb is.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I am more likely to have been in that catagory than a failed "patent"
attorney.

Meta message: You aren't, never were, and never will be.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:17:46 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Why not **** about the excess taxes when you make +$250k? You must never
had a great year as an attorney. When the state and Feds take about 1/2
your money you have a bought the right to bitch. If you are a California
resident married, no children at home and lets say you get a windfall of
$200 stock option. The Feds will take 35% taxes, 1.5% Medicare tax and
the
State of California will take 10%. Nice, $46.5% of your money just went
to
government entities.

That is one good thing about Florida. No income tax


My only experience with Florida was the Cape and monster bugs. :)

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:41:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:20:59 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Preferreds and long bonds will both take a big hit when (not if)
interest rates start to rise. Convertible preferreds offer more
protection on the downside if the underlying common is solid.

I think they already been hit. Got out of most my preferreds a few
months
ago.

They will get worse, quite possibly a lot worse. Back in the early
80s you could buy rock solid preferreds for less than 50% of par value
and yielding close to 15% annually. They all payed off at par
eventually as interest rates came down.


I was really just looking at this as a short term trade and my
thinking is ther fed is not going to let interest rates go up too much
in the short term. This recovery is so fragile that they will do
anything to keep the party going.
This is my speculative money anyway. If I guess wrong I won't need to
be eating cat food.



Inflation is not the concern right now. It's quite under control, and
allowing it to get out of hand would damage the recovery.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 01:01:54 -0400, wrote:

I was really just looking at this as a short term trade and my
thinking is ther fed is not going to let interest rates go up too much
in the short term.

The Fed will do their best but ultimately it is the markets that call
the tune on interest rates. Somebody has to buy those bonds and
T-bills.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 2:40 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:10:56 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 11:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:34:40 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:01:19 -0600,
wrote:

That might not be a bad idea to split them. But make no mistake,
Obama
is trying to scape goat them. Wants to look tough going into
Novemeber
for the PR of it.

I only hope the PR drives their stock down so I can get some cheap.
$10 would do it, $5 would be great.

Come on baby, papa needs a new boat!

Hahaha, you have the right idea. To steal the phrase, "That baby has
to
pay daddy!"

Think, if you bought GS when Obama got elected, you would be up 300%.

Heck, if it drops to $100 just might. But somehow don't think we will
see $5/share.


GS-A was $20.90 Friday, down about $2 in 2 days. It had been a $25
stock before the crash and dropped like a stone a couple years ago
with everything else. It recovered to $20-22 range. There is no reason
to believe it won't be back again as long as nothing serious happens
to Goldman and I don't expect it to.

Those are depositary shares. The common is GS. Don't know enough to
comment on depositary shares. But a quick look shows they might be
interesting if your after foreign content. But much would depend what
companies it represents and the details as I like a certain amount of
foreign content these days. If the Chinese ever let the Yuan float, the
USD would fall.


I was just looking for the shares with the most volatility
The preferred stock fit that bill.

Preferred's all over the board are being hit. As the interest rates may be
suspect.

Yes, but good things to buy if yu thing the company is good and interest
rates have peeked, Then they are priced right. Who knows, gfretwell
might se that $5.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 7:22 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:57:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:25:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:16:15 -0400, wrote:

My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

I'm probably missing something here but I believe you should be able
to roll over any amount of 401 money into an IRA without any tax
liability.

I would want it out and pay the taxes now before the rates really go
up.
Maybe a Roth but I am thinking I will just run t myself.
One of these days somebody is going to decide the deficit is important
and that tax deferred money is just way too attractive.


There are no tax consequences... you have 60 days to roll it to an IRA.
Withdrawing money from an IRA incurs a tax liability at whatever rate
you're
at. A ROTH is taxed initially, then tax free when you take out the
money.

I am not really interested in a regular IRA. I want to pay my taxes
now and own the money. The Roth really looks the most attractive if I
keep it in a fund..

That might not be a good idea unless you are over 59 1/2 or something.
There are penalties for just hauling it out before that.
--


No penalties if rolling in to a Roth.

Interesting. Take the tax hit and roll it into a ROTH...hm...need to
think about that.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 10:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:52:24 -0600,
wrote:

That might not be a good idea unless you are over 59 1/2 or something.

That is foam in the wake ;-)

How do you mean? I thought if you start taking money out of the
IRA/401k that there was a 10% surtax or something if you were less than
59 1/2.

Me, no tax expert on this. Just seeking to understand. Because if all
I had to do is pay a normal rate of taxes on it, I might start drawing
on it sooner than later.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 27/04/2010 1:39 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:01:56 -0600,
wrote:

Second, in retirement your income and taxes will plumet.


I have been somewhat retired since 1996. I had some gigs but they were
sole proprietor contracts and I have a pretty sharp pencil on a
schedule C.
The problem is my wife makes a lot of money

Well it is not that big a problem I guess ;-)


Definitely nothing wrong with being a kept man I suppose... suggestion:
continue to be nice to her. :)

Depends, does she look like a republican or a democrat?
--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

Where does the Goldman Sachs money go??
 

On 26/04/2010 7:01 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2010 12:59 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 25/04/2010 11:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:18:39 -0600,
wrote:

On 25/04/2010 7:16 PM, wrote:
My real problem is, this will put
us past the evil $250k mark if I try to roll it all at once and the
IRS will come after me.

Pray tell what is the $250K mark? Some penalties? And roll it into
what? IRA? Capital gains amount??

If you make over $250k the Obama tax increases really smack you.

Rolling it to a IRA shouldn't be a big deal but my roll over wasn't over
$250K so I didn't go there. But I don't remember any such limit. The
key
is making sure the money shows up in the IRA promptly.

If you have a tax pre person, this is a 1 minute question, I would ask.
I
suspect you can roll it over without issue.

Also need to consider vesting if some of it isn't yet vested. In which
case just roll over the vested part.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Vesting? That only happens if the company does a match of some of the
money.
Some companies have instant vesting of 401K money. Others require some
sort
of wait.

Why would you be in a 401k if they didn't match? Why not a IRA then? In
an IRA you can self direct it better with a much more diverse set of
options. Hell, I transfered out of the US and left it open for 1 more
year just to vest before I rolled it over into an IRA. It was part of the
equasion.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


As usual, you don't know much about business or saving.

Go away, people are trying to have an intelligent conversation.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.