On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:41:17 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:11:19 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

like i said: when's the last time they cut taxes for the middle class?

When?
During the GW Bush administration.


They have been steadily cutting middle class tax rates since GHWB got
his ass handed to him for raising taxes.

In 1991 the tax on 50,000 from the tax table was $9,573
in 2001 it was $8,093 and this year it is $6,661
(married filing joint)

thanks to obama. and those are targeted to specific groups...like
people with children.



So give it a rest about the damned middle class tax cut.

only when we get a 45% tax cut like the wealthy have. give it a rest
about how rough the rich have it.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:00:33 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:57:11 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:41:17 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:11:19 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

like i said: when's the last time they cut taxes for the middle class?

When?
During the GW Bush administration.

thanks to obama. and those are targeted to specific groups...like
people with children.

That cut from $8,093 to $6,661 happened during the Bush
administration. The drop from $9,575 to $8,093 happened during the
Clinton administration.

Your taxes have been cut steadily for 20 years.

really?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/obama...ory?id=9659186

The Obama administration's new middle class initiatives will put more
money into the pockets of many Americans, but will it bolster the
flagging economy? Reactions to the plan, unveiled Monday as part of a
forthcoming report by the administration's Task Force on the Middle
Class, have largely split among ideological lines.

For Working Parents: Expanding Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit for
Middle Class Families

The saver's tax credit helps Americans save for retirement by
providing a tax credit to match their own retirement savings up to a
certain amount

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0911401420100410

"So far, Americans who have filed their taxes have discovered that the
average refund is up nearly 10 percent this year -- to an all-time
high of about $3,000," he said.



So give it a rest about the damned middle class tax cut.

only when we get a 45% tax cut like the wealthy have. give it a rest
about how rough the rich have it.

Make some investments and you can enjoy that too.

i work for a living. if i made enough money to invest i wouldnt work.

of course you rich guys disdain work, which is why you have no use for
100,000,000 working americans

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:11 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:15:26 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:00:33 -0400, wrote:


Your taxes have been cut steadily for 20 years.

really?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/obama...ory?id=9659186

The Obama administration's new middle class initiatives will put more
money into the pockets of many Americans, but will it bolster the
flagging economy
That is really just more borrowing against our kid's futures. We only
appropriate about 60 cents of every federal dollar we spend. The rest
is borrowed.

as opposed to the 25% unemployment you think should be the policy?
what would happen to our kids if they were out on the street?

typical right wing. bitching. no solutions.


i work for a living. if i made enough money to invest i wouldnt work.

of course you rich guys disdain work, which is why you have no use for
100,000,000 working americans

Yup my $24,000 pension puts me up there with Bill Gates. We rich
*******s really stick it to you guys.

The reason I live a good live is I paid myself first. I saved and
invested, even back when my tax rate was over 20%. The typical middle
class tax rate is far less than 10% now if I take your number of
100,000,000 people to define them.

and 50% of americans have less than 10,000 in their 401k's.

do you hate them all?

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:11 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:15:26 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:00:33 -0400, wrote:


Your taxes have been cut steadily for 20 years.

really?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/obama...ory?id=9659186

The Obama administration's new middle class initiatives will put more
money into the pockets of many Americans, but will it bolster the
flagging economy
That is really just more borrowing against our kid's futures. We only
appropriate about 60 cents of every federal dollar we spend. The rest
is borrowed.

as opposed to the 25% unemployment you think should be the policy?
what would happen to our kids if they were out on the street?

typical right wing. bitching. no solutions.


i work for a living. if i made enough money to invest i wouldnt work.

of course you rich guys disdain work, which is why you have no use for
100,000,000 working americans

Yup my $24,000 pension puts me up there with Bill Gates. We rich
*******s really stick it to you guys.

The reason I live a good live is I paid myself first. I saved and
invested, even back when my tax rate was over 20%. The typical middle
class tax rate is far less than 10% now if I take your number of
100,000,000 people to define them.

and 50% of americans have less than 10,000 in their 401k's.

do you hate them all?

Of those 50%, how many lease a nice car, live in a home that is a maximum
mortgage or rent a nice place? I made good money, drove a Chevrolet, Ford,
VW, and Toyota and Chevy LUV pickup over the years. As Greg states. Pay
yourself first. We took resonable vacations with the kids and even after
they left home.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:34:57 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:11 -0400, wrote:

The reason I live a good live is I paid myself first. I saved and
invested, even back when my tax rate was over 20%. The typical middle
class tax rate is far less than 10% now if I take your number of
100,000,000 people to define them.

and 50% of americans have less than 10,000 in their 401k's.

do you hate them all?

Of those 50%, how many lease a nice car, live in a home that is a maximum
mortgage or rent a nice place? I made good money, drove a Chevrolet, Ford,
VW, and Toyota and Chevy LUV pickup over the years. As Greg states. Pay
yourself first. We took resonable vacations with the kids and even after
they left home.

it's funny...you begrudge hard working middle class americans the
fruit of their labor

americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.

we have marginal health insurance. no vacations. no retirement.

and the right wing says we're not working hard enough to make sure
wall street stays rich

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, bpuharic wrote:


americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.



Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans
You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base
salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that?

i'm salaried. i dont overtime

and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.

it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on
whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs
for a billion

yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot
because i'm a hard working middle class guy

shows what moral values the right has

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on
my own performance.

Eisboch

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, bpuharic wrote:


americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.



Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans
You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base
salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that?

i'm salaried. i dont overtime

and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.

it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on
whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs
for a billion

yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot
because i'm a hard working middle class guy

shows what moral values the right has


You were not saving in your 401K! You were buying the alternative to a
defined benefit pension. Saving is living below your means and taking part
of each weeks paycheck and putting it away for the future. Maybe the near
term future of paying for kids college, saving to buy a car without having
to finance it, or saving to have a better retirement than your 401k or
company pension will give you. Your wife being an attorney and you and
engineer and not saving at least $15-20k a year outside of your "pension" is
a sign that you are both clueless and living beyond your means. Blame
yourself, not Wall Street, or Republicans or Wingers for you being broke.
And you either need to get another job or work smarter if you work 60 hours
a week to get your job done. Or ask for a raise of the at least the amount
a 2nd engineer would make in straight salary for your company.

On 4/18/10 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:19:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, wrote:


americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.



Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans
You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base
salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that?

i'm salaried. i dont overtime

and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.

it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on
whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs
for a billion

yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot
because i'm a hard working middle class guy

shows what moral values the right has

You probably make more money than I ever did. You just spend a higher
percentage of it.
A 401k is not savings, it is, at best, a substitute pension plan, at
worst a Ponzi scheme. I predict that when the boomers start drawing
down their 401ks the market will crash again. (and I seem to be pretty
good at predicting market crashes, certainly better than your 401k
manager)


It's best to have available a variety of pensions and pension saving
devices.


--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On 18/04/2010 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:19:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, wrote:


americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.



Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans
You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base
salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that?

i'm salaried. i dont overtime

and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.

it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on
whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs
for a billion

yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot
because i'm a hard working middle class guy

shows what moral values the right has

You probably make more money than I ever did. You just spend a higher
percentage of it.
A 401k is not savings, it is, at best, a substitute pension plan, at
worst a Ponzi scheme. I predict that when the boomers start drawing
down their 401ks the market will crash again. (and I seem to be pretty
good at predicting market crashes, certainly better than your 401k
manager)

401K/IRA are not ponzi. Perhaps what you direct them to invest in is.
Move your vested part of a 401K to a self directed IRA, much more
flexable than most of the company sponsored junk. But you do need to
learn to manage it yourself.

But one way or another, you better save for retirement or be prepared to
be a 65 year old bum. You can't live on social security alone.

--
Time to ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government?